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The Rules

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 3:05

1) If it ain't Lisp, it's crap.
2) Lisp is shit.

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 3:37

And you sir, are a pointer of the obvious!
obvious_t* troll;
troll = malloc(sizeof(yomama_t)); //Uh, burn!
feed(troll);

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 3:45

I'd take 'shit' to be worse than 'crap'. Ergo, non-LISP languages are better, by the rules.
Either way, fuck you, ``faggot''

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 4:09

Actually, since all non-Lisp languages are crap, and Lisp is shit, we can say with confidence that Lisp is THE shit. Therefore, Lisp is the best. (cons 'Q (cons 'E (cons 'D nil)))

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 4:10

>>4
l2'(Q E D) faggot

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 4:44

>>4
What confidence? By adding an arbitrary new word to the rules, we proved something, wow!. I might as well just confidently add ``not'' to rule 1 - an lo and behold, we just proved If it ain't Lisp, it's not crap.
Go suck a dick, LITHPer

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 11:52

>>6
BEHOLD! THE SUPREME IDIOT.

Lisp is turing-complete. So is C, C++, et al. Do you know what this means, dumbass? It means that it doesn't matter what language you use. You'll get the same results from any turing-complete language, you fucking moron.

Just when I think I've heard it all, some fuckwit manages to reach even lower depths of stupidity!

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 12:10

>>7
Lisp is shit.

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 12:12

It means that it doesn't matter what language you use
All joking aside, that's actually not what it means, unless you have an infinite amount of time for writing code and an infinite amount of time for your code to execute.

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 12:57

>>9
in my dream world infinity is just a dicks-length away

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 13:30

>>7
Lisp is turing-complete. So is C, C++, et al. Do you know what this means, dumbass? It means that it doesn't matter what language you use. You'll get the same results from any turing-complete language, you fucking moron.
You are not aware of this, but Touring-equivalence is proved by demonstrating that you can write an interpreter for one language in another, and vice-versa. So yes, you can do in C++ everything that you can do in Lisp, by writing a Lisp interpreter in C++. In this sense it doesn't matter which language you use, ha ha. Ha ha ha.

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 13:44

>>11
>>7

Just because some languages are Turing-complete doesn't mean that what language you use to program is irrelevant. Look up what a Turing-tarpit is.

>>11
Actually, all you have to do to prove Turing-completeness is to impelement a rudimentary Turing-machine-simulator.

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 14:05

>>12
No, in general to prove that two formal systems are equivalent, you must write simulator of one in another and vice-versa. For instance, is not enough to write a TM simulator in Lisp, you also are supposed to write a Lisp simulator in TM.

Of course these days you know that a lot of formalisms are equivalent to TM (so you have a notion of Turing-completeness in the first place), so if you are interested in equivalence of a couple of formalisms, you check both against TM, and it's usually obvious that your formalism is not more powerful than TM.

Nevertheless, the idea behind all these shortcuts is what I said: that Lisp is no more powerful than C++ because you can write a Lisp interpreter in C++ (which might internally interpret a TM which interprets Lisp, of course). Which means something not very pleasant to >>7 ^^

Also, Turing tarpits are interesting only as long as you try to program them on their own terms, so to speak. As soon as you are, like, OK, fuck this shit, let's implement a Turing machine here, they stop being interesting.

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 14:12

>>13
usually obvious that your formalism is not more powerful than TM.
Since we don't seem to have hypercomputation, that's basically the biggest fucking understatement in /progn/.

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 14:15

>>1
I agree.

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 14:42

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_machine
...an infinite memory capacity obtained in the form of an infinite tape
Looks like a religious theory. Are you sure, Turing wasn't jewish?

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 14:45

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing
Ethel Sara Stoney
Sarah is a popular jewish name.

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 16:24

>>17
Jews have staked out a lot of the good names.

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 17:13

>>14
Since we don't seem to have hypercomputation, that's basically the biggest fucking understatement in /progn/.
It's more complex than you think.

For one thing, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_degree , as far as I understand this means that you can accidentally make a static type system that is not only undecidable, but also undecidable for a TM with a TM-halting oracle. Of course it would not be able to resolve undecidable problems in practice, but it would be more expressive at least.

The second, more intriguing option is the existence of a computability class strictly more powerful than TM and strictly less powerful than TM + TM-halting oracle (which is usually meant by hypercomputation). I don't see any immediate reasons for such thing not to exist, or maybe even be physically plausible.

Name: >>19 2011-12-16 17:15

Also, I forgot to add, in any case it's only the second biggest fucking understatement in /progn/, after that time someone called FrozenVoid "stupid".

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 17:25

>>19
We don't have oracles, either.

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 17:58

>>21
This is supposed to be a remark regarding what?

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 20:10

>>22
That no one thinks about oracles or supertasks when they discuss actual programming languages, so your "it is subtle and complex" bullshit is totally out of place.

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 20:39

Oracles... they have Java now, don't they?

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 20:49

>>1

The funny part is that this is basically 100% true of /prog/.

Retards.

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 21:06

1) You do not talk about /prog/.
2) You do NOT talk about /prog/.

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-16 21:31

>>26

3) /prof/ is shit anyway, so whether or not you talk about it is completely irrelevant

Name: Anonymous 2012-02-17 0:00

Turing was a faggot. We cannot trust him.

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