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rogramming courses?

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-01 21:21

Dear /puddi/,

Why or why do so many people fail to learn programming?
Is it because they fail to see programming as calculation of data and instead see a black box that magically does things?

Or is it because they can't grasp the "strict" typing of a programming language?

What is it, /prog/, that makes programming so hard, even the introductory course seems so hard for people, even with languages like LISP or Python, and books like SICP?

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 7:23

>>22
Why should one define anything at all? Nobody is forcing you to "believe" into anything, you just take a system of your own definition, and if it's consistent, you'll arrive at a lot of properties of that system. The system doesn't have to be computable or of this world. While our world can only describe computable things, this doesn't mean that uncomputable systems don't let you reach some very interesting conclusions. You intentionally limit your worldview and thus will miss some pretty useful truths.
>>28 That's a lot of fallacies and ambiguous definitions right there.

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 10:18

>>41
>Why should one define anything at all? Nobody is forcing you to "believe" into anything, you just take a system of your own definition
That wont be mathematics then. LISP, for example, is also a system, but has nothing in common with mathematics.

and if it's consistent, you'll arrive at a lot of properties of that system.
Please, define "consistent" and "arrive".

>You intentionally limit your worldview and thus will miss some pretty useful truths.
What is "thruth"? Does such thing "exist"? What proves its "existence"? Can you prove that it really proves? No? Q.E.D.

>That's a lot of fallacies and ambiguous definitions right there.
Just as in math.

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 10:19

>>42
You just don't understand what mathemathics is and its scope.

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 10:21

>>43
In mathematics you don't understand things. You just get used to them. -- John von Neumann

Name: Gerald Jay Sussman !MhMRSATORI 2010-12-03 10:23

>>44

``You're a moron.'' -- Gerald Jay Sussman

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 10:26

>mathematics
It's what I call "mental masturbation", when you engage is some pointless intellectual exercise that has no possible meaning. -- Linus Torvalds

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 10:27

Epistula non erubescit. -- Cicero

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 10:36

Hax My Anus. -- /prog/

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 10:44

You probably know that arrogance, in computer science, is measured in nanodijkstras. -- Alan Kay

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 11:10

"Why or why do so many people fail to learn programming?"

Can we stop talking about math and philosophy and get back to the OP's original topic.

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 11:17

>>50
But many people insist that programming `equals` math, lol. For xample, every programmer is required to enroll calculus classes, where he will be brainwashed with all that infinity stuff, he will "learn" that the universe consists of so called "infinitesimals" and one can measure "distance" in "reals".

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 11:29

Lets assume that "infinity" exists, then:
- 1/oo is infinitesimal
- 1/oo * 1/oo = 1/oo
- 1/oo = 1
- oo = 1

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 11:33

∞

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 11:44

Lets assume that "infinity" exists. Then one can conceive infinity series, where each even denominator is negative:
    x = /1 - /2 + /3 - /4 + /5 - /6 + ...
Note: here and below "/n" stands for a rational number "1/n"

Using commutativity of addtion, we rearrange elements in such a way, that after each positive number would go to two negative:
    x = /1 - /2 - /4  + /3 - /6 - /8 + /5 - /10 - /12 + ...

Now, using associativity of addtion, we group elements in following way:
    x = (/1 - /2) - /4  + (/3 - /6) - /8 + (/5 - /10) - /12 + ...

But (/1 - /2) = /2, (/3 - /6) = /6, etc.., so we have
    x = /2 - /4 + /6 - /8 + /10 - /12 + ...

Multiplying both sides by 2 gives us:
    2*x = /1 - /2 + /3 - /4 + /5 - /6 + ...

That is "x = 2*x" or "1 = 2"!

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 11:54

>>52
Золотце, ты?

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 11:57

>>55
NO U!

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 13:54

>>54
Almost got me.

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 14:30

>>54
Excellent!

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 17:24

>>54

Nice flawed logic using ellipses as if they're proper mathematics. Learn to limits. By rearranging in that manner, you're subtracting 'faster' than you're adding. I know ``faster'' isn't a proper mathematical concept in this respect, but this is essentially what you are doing. Subtracting twice as many terms as you are adding for each iteration of your ``loop''.

In more mathematical terms, you're saying that:

lim as n -> infinity of (the sum of i=1 to n of (1^(-i+1)/i))
= lim as n -> infinity of ( (the sum of i=1 to n of (1/(2i-1)) - (the sum of i=1 to (2n) of (1/(2i))) )

And bam you've got a phallusy fallacy.

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 17:28

lim as n -> infinity of (the sum of i=1 to n of (1^(-i+1)/i))
= lim as n -> infinity of ( (the sum of i=1 to n of (1/(2i-1))) - (the sum of i=1 to (2n) of (1/(2i))) )

Fixing that fucking parenthesis.

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 17:32

>>60
Mathematics == LISP

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 17:39

>>59
Learn to limits.
Learn to recognise your bitch tits and go back to /[[:alpha:]]/, ``please''.

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 17:45

>>59
Who cares about your speed to infinity? You'll never get there anyway.

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 17:55

>>63

HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR ``faggot'' HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 18:13

>>60
how do i quote?

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 18:19

>>65
how do i quote

Like this:
>>>/b/
seriously go back to /b/

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 18:24

>>66
>>>
I think that you'll be go back there.

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 18:29

>>66
>>>You're a ``faggot''

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 18:39

>>68

PLEASE LEARN TO FUCKING ``sage'' WHEN SHITPOSTING.THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION ``faggot''

That was a lot of fucking enterprise BB code. This will most likely not work.

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 18:45

>>69

<blockquote>
    <p>
<a href="read/prog/1291256476/68">&gt;&gt;68</a><br/>
<br/>
<span class="spoiler" onmouseover="this.style.color='#FFF';" onmouseout="this.style.color=this.style.backgroundColor='#000'"><sup><sup><sup><sup><sup><sup><span class="o"><span class="spoiler" onmouseover="this.style.color='#FFF';" onmouseout="this.style.color=this.style.backgroundColor='#000'"><sub><sub><sub><sub><sub><sub><sub><sub><sub><sub><sub><sub><u><span class="spoiler" onmouseover="this.style.color='#FFF';" onmouseout="this.style.color=this.style.backgroundColor='#000'"><sup><sup><sup><sup><sup><sup><sup><sup><sup><span class="o"><u><b><tt>PLEASE LEARN TO FUCKING ``sage'' WHEN SHITPOSTING.</tt></b></u></span></sup></sup></sup></sup></sup></sup><span class="o"><u><b><tt>THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION ``faggot''</tt></b></u></span></sup></sup></sup></span></u></sub></sub></sub></sub></sub></sub></sub></sub></sub></sub></sub></sub></span></span></sup></sup></sup></sup></sup></sup></span><br/>
<br/>
<sub><sub><sub><sub><sub><sub><tt><span class="spoiler" onmouseover="this.style.color='#FFF';" onmouseout="this.style.color=this.style.backgroundColor='#000'">That was a lot of fucking enterprise BB code. This will most likely not work.</span></tt></sub></sub></sub></sub></sub></sub>
    </p>
</blockquote>

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 18:49

>>69
>Implying a bunch of subs and sups are enterprise work.


back to /b/,``faggot''

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 18:56

>>71
Implying this is how you quote:
>Implying a bunch of subs and sups are enterprise work.

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 18:58

>>71
fuck off fag

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 19:14

>>73
>>72
back to /b/,``faggot''

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 19:16

I know how to quote, but ">" is traditional.

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 19:20

http://learn-bbcode.blogspot.com/2007/09/how-to-quote-messages-of-other-posters.html

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 19:22

>>76
Cool post as for me. It would be great to read a bit more concerning this topic. Thanks for giving that data.

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 19:26

[color=red]test[/color]

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 19:26

[color="red"]test[/color]

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-03 19:33

[color=ff0000]test[/color]
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