>>4
Seconding that. Free SDK and emulator, good development environment, not that fucking schizophrenic ObjC shit.
Except, >>1 was talking about selling apps, and frankly, selling on the android market is crap. You won't make anything, because it's trivially easy to get them free. (no DRM or anything, and really lax "return" policy)
>>5
That's against Apple's braindamaged policy that disallows any app that isn't written in ObjC / Cocoa directly.
Name:
Anonymous2010-06-08 22:14
>>7
it's translated into objective-c and then compiled. there's no way apple can tell the difference.
>>6
1. drm is fundamentally broken anyway.
2. if your app is worth paying for, people will pay for it.
3. it's trivially easy to get one version of an app (install, pull the apk off the phone, uninstall & refund), but after you've gotten a refund for an app once, it won't let you get that refund again. if you want to get updates, you have to pay for the app. this works fine for crappy apps that are never updated (gameloft is one of the worst offenders here), but for most apps, it sucks to be stuck with an old version when the developer keeps making the newer versions better.
>>1
Don't buy a Macbook Pro. For much cheaper, just buy the lowest end Mac Mini and an iPod Touch. The newest iPod Touch is identical to an iPhone 3GS except for 3G, phone calls (obviously), and I think camera is the only other thing. It will work perfectly to test your iPhone apps (I know because this is what I do.)
If it will take you a few months to finish your app, you could wait for a few months to see if they release an HD version of the iPod Touch. The simulator will do in the meantime. I wouldn't bother if I were you; just get the current one now.
>>4
Yeah, this sounds great to open source developers, but it makes no real business sense. There are 100 million iOS devices now, and the App Store sells shitloads. Android is sparse, fragmented, and the Market is shitty. It will take a few years for Android to catch up.
Name:
Anonymous2010-06-08 22:51
>>8
If one person can get one version and can distribute it to others who can install it easily on their own phones, then it logically follows that all versions are easily accessible by anyone, at least so long as nv≤np holds true.
What makes things worse is the Android Market has a large number of technically savvy users, and sadder yet, Google has managed to make it difficult to purchase a paid application in the first place, if not impossible depending on location -- you need a Google Account with Checkout, it has to be tied to a gmail.com address, and you have to be in one of the regions supported by the Android Market. The programs on the market are almost entirely free, with a handful of paid apps here and there -- as a result many people expect free, and just skip past any app with a price tag. And those that don't have to put up with currency conversions for a good third of their apps. And, to make matters even worse, there is hardly any quality control, so a lot of the stuff on the market is just garbage. You really have no idea what you're paying for.
Regarding your point #2, no they won't. Don't be naive, people are generally speaking lazy bastards, and having to go through an annoying process of searching for some third-party market and billing system and set up an account there just to give someone a dollar is beyond what a huge number of people are willing to do, however honest they may or may not otherwise be.
Name:
Anonymous2010-06-09 0:37
If one person can get one version and can distribute it to others who can install it easily on their own phones, then it logically follows that all versions are easily accessible by anyone, at least so long as nv≤np holds true.
the few people actually pirating android apps aren't organized enough to do that.
Regarding your point #2, no they won't.
i have at least 5 apps on my android phone that i paid for. no matter how many times you make that claim, it won't make it true.
Don't be naive, people are generally speaking lazy bastards, and having to go through an annoying process of searching for some third-party market and billing system and set up an account there just to give someone a dollar is beyond what a huge number of people are willing to do, however honest they may or may not otherwise be.
what the fuck are you on about? the android market is run by google, and uses your google account.
>>13 I disagree with what he says, so I'll just criticize his typing because I'm being lazy at typing up a proper rebuttal.
Name:
Anonymous2010-06-09 3:33
Android will peter out because Google are basically letting the telcos fuck them up the ass for popularity, while the telcos are desperate to suck Steve Jobs' dick. It'll become the Linux of smartphones, some shitty "free" clones of commercial applications from other OSes that no-one but RiMjobS Stallman will give a shit about.
Name:
Anonymous2010-06-09 3:41
>>15
multitasking, flash, wifi tether, htc sense, google maps navigation, etc.
also, no robo defense makes iphone useless as a mobile gaming platform.
Name:
Anonymous2010-06-09 3:51
You can buy a Macbook and get a free iPod touch well, after rebate.
Just claim to go to a college.
Name:
Anonymous2010-06-09 5:19
>>16
All available on systems other than Android. Phones will certainly continue to use Android, but my prediction is as a platform it'll be splintered into incompatible manufacturer/carrier-specific islands. As a feature it'll only be of interest to neckbeards who'll think "oh golly gee I can run my free software" except you won't be able to as the carriers start mandating lock-in features.
The investment of developing is about the cost of the a mac, a iphone, and the $99 fee to start publishing applications to the iphone market. If you have a idea for a marketable application and have the ability to obtain the aforementioned things, by all means go for it.
Name:
Anonymous2010-06-09 6:20
OP here,
$99 fee is just trivial, the thing is, apple products are like 3 times more expensive here than they are in USA. I can't just go for it, I need to confirm if everything will be ok before investing in it.
Could you confirm If people can actually sell them on appstore ? I'd LOVE to write in any language other than obj-c (I prefer c++ but java is fine too) and I really hate apple but I need to start making money, doing fine academically doesn't cut it anymore.
And if that's not the case, can iphone simulator do everyting an iphone/ipod can (or "simulate" few others like that accelerometer in xmlvm demo) ? I'm about to bid for a macbook and will buy if it'll be cheap enough but I really don't want to buy an iphone later.
>>14
Basically yes. I was tired, and he's a goddamn blithering idiot and not at all worth staying up late at night for.
i have at least 5 apps on my android phone that i paid for. no matter how many times you make that claim, it won't make it true.
Fallacy: false generalization, and if you did your research you would already know that you're fucking wrong. The iPhone App Store sees roughly half of all users buying a paid app every month, whereas Android sees less than 20%. Not to mention that the userbase for the Market is a fraction of the size, and nearly 99% of the total app downloads on the Android are for free. (see below for link)
There are lots of places to get free "paid" apps for the Android Market. There's a lot of technically inclined users, and the platform makes it dead simple to copy an app from a phone and then install it on another one.
what the fuck are you on about? the android market is run by google, and uses your google account.
Being incapable of reading doesn't automatically give you the right to be abusive.
Obviously it requires a Google account, that is the essential minimum for downloading free applications. However, free apps don't require Checkout. It only becomes necessary the first time you try to download a paid app, and for many, that's just annoying enough to discourage buying. Plus, if you're not in one of the few countries that supports purchasing apps (http://market.android.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=143779), you already lose.
And even if I had Google Checkout on my account, I still would be incapable of purchasing apps, because the Market doesn't work without a Gmail address: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=2332
>>18
google maps navigation and robo defense are not available for any platform other than android.
The iPhone App Store sees roughly half of all users buying a paid app every month, whereas Android sees less than 20%.
that's because the average iphone user is an idiot who's willing to pay $20 each for stupid fart apps.
Obviously it requires a Google account, that is the essential minimum for downloading free applications. However, free apps don't require Checkout. It only becomes necessary the first time you try to download a paid app, and for many, that's just annoying enough to discourage buying.
even if you don't already have google checkout set up, it only takes a few seconds to set up and is so easy an 8-year-old can do it. and it's really worth it considering how good some of the paid apps are.
And even if I had Google Checkout on my account, I still would be incapable of purchasing apps, because the Market doesn't work without a Gmail address:
yeah, because you wouldn't be capable of getting a gmail address and typing it in when the market asks you to log in to use checkout. considering how many google services don't work with just a google apps address, i'm surprised you haven't already done that. i use a google apps address for everything i can and only have a gmail address for the services that don't work with google apps.
that's because the average iphone user is an idiot who's willing to pay $20 each for stupid fart apps.
Ad hominem, and terrible one at that. There's more and better quality apps on the iPhone store than the Android store.
Your other "points" are irrelevant and useless because they don't even bother to address the numerous flaws with both Google Checkout and the Android Market that I outlined in my post and which were discussed in great detail in the pages I linked to. Once you do that, and substantiate your claims with any real data whatsoever, I will consider continuing this conversation. Unless you can do that, your posts are nothing but baseless self-validation and threadshitting.
>>29
but good navigation and tower defense games are not.
Name:
Anonymous2010-06-09 23:15
No, you need a real device. The emulator is incomplete (lacking libraries like encryption and a bunch others that are present in the device) and its speed is extremely different to the real device. Programs that seem to run fine in the emulator will crawl in the iphone. Apple really dropped the ball with it - it's a fucking joke. So, sadly you'll need an iphone.
Name:
Anonymous2010-06-10 1:47
If you want to play games on the go why are you using a phone in the first place? Wouldn't it be better to get a PSP or DS with actual buttons and better games?
>>32
i have a DSi, but:
* it's a lot bigger than my phone
* it doesn't have accelerometers
* a lot of games don't support WPA
* dry skin + the texture of the DSi = extreme discomfort after about 10 minutes
re: PSP, can i put a bunch of games on a microsd card, or do i have to carry around huge bulky media for each game?
>>36
I hear the 3DS will be a PS3-killing smartphone. Or was that the iPad? I get so confused.
Name:
Anonymous2010-06-10 2:58
>>36
You can put games on a microsd card if you download them from the Playstation Store or if you crack it and download them from some place other than the Playstation Store (also emulators for SNES/Genesis/PS1 etc).
You also have to look at the quality of the games when you compare a phone to the portables. Show me a game on the iPhone that can compare to God of War on the PSP or The World Ends With You on the DS.
it doesn't have accelerometers
hipster
Name:
Anonymous2010-06-10 3:33
You also have to look at the quality of the games when you compare a phone to the portables. Show me a game on the iPhone that can compare to God of War on the PSP or The World Ends With You on the DS. http://www2.gamevil.com/eng_new/iphone.jsp?game=2 ?
hipster
i suppose you think we should all go back to using punch cards instead of using these newfangled keyboards.
>>57
Of course there is. 3.3.1 — Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs. Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited).
Fuck iPhone.
Name:
Anonymous2010-06-11 5:57
So wait, it's not necessary to use crapjective-c ?
Name:
Anonymous2010-06-11 6:57
>>59
You almost always have to use crapjective-c and Sepples. I like Sepples though.
>>70
have you played the games >>64 mentioned?
i'm not surprised you weren't impressed with the shit that's out there for iphone. try playing a game on a real phone (nexus one, droid incredible, evo 4g, etc.).
also, is there anything like http://labyrinth.codify.se/ for psp?
how about a tower defense game that's as good as robo defense?
Name:
Anonymous2010-06-13 2:41
>>72
I played Need for Speed and some Call of Duty game on the iPhone so I can't imagine the racing game and shooter he mentioned are that much different and that much better. NFS and CoD are pretty high profile.
http://www.dvidearts.com/games.php?gid=7
This looks terrible from the youtube video. The music just made me think of all the videos that use LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR for some reason.
also, is there anything like http://labyrinth.codify.se/ for psp? how about a tower defense game that's as good as robo defense?
I played Need for Speed and some Call of Duty game on the iPhone so I can't imagine the racing game and shooter he mentioned are that much different and that much better. NFS and CoD are pretty high profile.
mobile versions of 3d console games are usually just shitty 2d j2me games. most of the companies that make them just port the shitty j2me games to smartphones and expect people to pay for that shit. games actually developed for smartphones are usually much better.
This looks terrible from the youtube video. The music just made me think of all the videos that use LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR for some reason.
i agree with you about that one, but for some reason people who like the psp seem to like that sort of thing. sorry for assuming you were part of that crowd.
http://psp.ign.com/objects/704/704774.html
Probably the best puzzle game I've ever played. (You might think "OH THIS IS TETRIS", but it's not) http://psp.ign.com/objects/949/949614.html
This one's pretty clever.
labyrinth isn't really a puzzle game... it's usually pretty obvious what you have to do, and the challenge is tilting the device to make the ball roll where you want it to roll.
http://psp.ign.com/objects/143/14305991.html
The only TD game I can think of. The only time I had fun with tower defense was in Warcraft 3 playing with friends so I'm not really big on them.
not even close to being as good as robo defense.
These don't look that much different, granted Asphalt 5 looks a little better but I think NFS Shift aims to be more realistic or something.
But really I know how those games are controlled. It's fun for 10-15 minutes perhaps but I want more.
Now this is a racing game that's both fast and requires precision: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE4POysgqpg
Honestly I can't think of a better portable gaming system than the PSP. Sure some may consider its library to be inferior to that of the DS but if you add emulators for NES/SNES/Genesis/GBA/PS1 (which runs flawlessly) it simply can't be beat.
Not saying the iPhone or Android-based phones are bad at what they do, but when it comes to gaming it's simply no competition.
>>75
I don't think it's necessary to compare the DS and the PSP. They both provide the required kind of control. Beyond that it's a matter of taste since the available titles themselves make a bigger difference than the system capabilities do. Not so with phones; even if you had gaming controls on your phone the common denominator does not.