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[WEB 3.0]THE INSANE ABSTRACTIONS[HTML5]

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-30 14:05

http://www.innoveware.com/ql3/QuakeLight.html
http://www.silvergames.com/game/quake-flash/
(I don't have Java installed because it's even worse than Flash and Silverlight combined, go look for one yourself)

If my memory serves me right, the performance (in a downclocked Merom at 1600MHz) is about the one you'd get in a ~300-500MHz Celeron using optimized assembly. Quite amazing, don't you agree?

Surprisingly the Flash one runs a bit better for me, but it's a wash (and without looking deeper the reasons are hard to tell). They both are within an order of magnitude of the C version (a decimal order, mind you). I knew ActionScript was fast but I am impressed. Also I think the Flash one does sound mixing manually, but the Silverlight one hands it off (score one more for Flash).

So /prog/, here's your challenge (like anybody here is even going to consider it): do this in HTML5, that is Javascript rendering to <canvas> I guess, and sound via <audio>. The browser implementations suck right now so the result would probably be completely unusable for actual play (like the Silverlight one) but demo playback should be enough to see in what ballpark of performance it is.

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-30 14:39

Cool

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-30 14:55

http://www.nihilogic.dk/labs/wolf/

This is wolfenstein 3D clone. I think a real 3D engine in JS which runs fairly fluent is not possible at the moment.

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-30 15:24

>>3
WebGL, to use OpenGL in Canvas. But implementation is still in its infancy, and framerate isn't that great. But having native OpenGL in browsers is definetly something to look forward to.

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-30 15:27

If my memory serves me right, the performance (in a downclocked Merom at 1600MHz) is about the one you'd get in a ~300-500MHz Celeron using optimized assembly. Quite amazing, don't you agree?
Not really, demoscene had 320x240 realtime 3D rendering on 66MHz 486s.

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-30 15:41

>>3
It's framerate-limited to 30fps and runs using <10% of the CPU, and it does texture filtering too (however it's possible it does this directly with some <canvas> methods, in that case the resize would be done using C code in the browser). In any case I wouldn't bet real 3D costing more than 10 times that.

>>4
Right now performance is shit because it renders off-screen and reads it back to system memory. Both Firefox and Chrome are working on supporting hardware surfaces to fix this (both for WebGL and <video>).

>>5
We're talking about Quake running at 30fps 640x480.

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-30 15:50

>>4
Doesn't IE9 have hardware-accelerated graphics?

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-30 15:54

>>7
That's a bit different. It's accelerated 2D (basically HTML and SVG). You can't really do 3D like that. You'd need an high-level 3D interface (like WebGL), or render it manually in software using JavaScript (in which case hardware accel doesn't help - also it doesn't support <canvas> so speed might suffer even more if you have to do tricks to emulate it).

You can do very fast 2D vector stuff though (think typical 2D Flash animations/games).

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-30 16:01

hardware-accelerated 3D browser games
I dare not think what comes next.

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-30 16:03

>>9
Web browser based JMMORPGs?

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-30 16:09

>>10
What does the "J" stand for? In any you might want to look RuneScape up. It launched like a decade ago.

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-30 16:21

>>11
J for Japanese
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yalHoTTRepc
seduce a preschooler by grinding chat menus

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-30 16:29

Nanako smiles vigorously...
You can feel a tight bond between yourself and Nanako...
Oh, for fuck's sake. This is a prime example of why two nukes just wasn't enough. I'd vigorously create a bond between myself and Nanako, though.

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-30 16:31

Post-BBCode
failure
test

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-30 17:11

>>12
Persona 4 was way too gay to be considered a MegaTen game, btw.

>>8
I wonder if Microsoft will ever support OpenGL.

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-30 17:29

>>15
I wonder if Microsoft will ever support OpenGL.
WebGL can be implemented on top of Direct3D, just like they use Direct2D to render HTML+SVG. Also cut that crap, Windows has shipped with OpenGL since Windows 95 (with a software renderer that the screensavers used), and recent versions include a Direct3D wrapper that provides basic support (enough to run Quake3 at full fidelity at a few hundred FPS) until you install a real driver.

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-31 3:16

What ever happened to the HyperText part of HyperText Transfer Protocol?  Fuck this superfluous pig disgusting multimedia bullshit.

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-31 3:55

>>15
>I wonder if Microsoft will ever support OpenGL.
this one is unfunny joke.
>>17
http died then resurrected with steroids.

http://code.google.com/intl/ru/apis/o3d/

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-31 4:18

There's nothing really special about 3D accelerated graphics in the browser. All you need are some OpenGL bindings for JavaScript. This could be done via an ActiveX control on IE, plugins on FireFox or Opera. Of course standardizing such an API would allow broader cross-platform support, but it has always been something which was possible here and now. A real standard wouldn't even be necessary to do this as we know the masses have installed and used proprietary adobe/MS plugins before (flash, acrobat reader, shockwave, silverlight, ...). I actually remember such a plugin many many years ago when ActiveX plugins were fairly popular. It featured 3D accelerated graphics in the browser... it was 2000 or earlier. I think the reason it didn't catch on is because people don't really want the browser to be a damn platform, they just want something to display sites and information, not rich 3D games. If I wanted a rich 3D game, I'd just install the game on my local hard drive, such an install has always and will always be optimal as it provides fast loading times and much higher flexibility for developers. For example, this Quake clone is nice, but the performance is slightly lacking (although the flash one actually played in realtime here) and controls suck(there's no way to explicitly capture controls, so you'd have to keep your mouse button pressed to move around, and other stupid limitations of "interactive webapps/games"). If you're going to make real applications, you might as well use real platforms instead of catering to http/html/js+plugins just because their ubiquitous. Hint: Almost everyone has an a real platform underneath. In the far past people were very happy to get their own personal computers where they had their freedom to do anything and go away from being just thinclients on terminals and now people are getting dumber and want to go back to that state.

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-31 9:17

>>17
FYI: the protocol is still at version 1.1.

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-31 9:38

>>19
>because people don't really want the browser to be a damn platform
The platform for offline games is obsolete.
This is what games are becoming:
1.Onlive(video games as video streams)
2.Ubisoft(mandatory online-only DRM,classic game engine)
3.Browser(flash/JavaScript platform, game stored on server)

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-31 10:40

>>19
proprietary adobe/MS plugins
On which I'd be glad to not have to rely upon.

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-31 10:46

>>21
Browser(flash/JavaScript platform, game stored on server)
...only to be downloaded and saved to cache

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-31 10:51

>>23
Whats if you can't download the server logic? The more DRM and paranoia the less client will download.

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-31 10:57

>>21
>The platform for offline games is obsolete.
It's still the one that offers the most.

This is what games are becoming:
1.Onlive(video games as video streams)
Shitslow/latency problems, crappy ugly compression. One of the most terrible ideas I've ever seen, but maybe in some 10-20 years when everyone has at least 1Gbps fiber at home and can always reach their servers with >10ms latency, they'll go somewhere.
2.Ubisoft(mandatory online-only DRM,classic game engine)
And was that a problem for crackers? No. Maybe one day they will give up with their futile attempts. Contrary to popular belief, activation and "online DRM" are rather ineffective forms of DRM when it comes to protecting against reverse engineering and crackers, what they are effective at is annoying legit customers that want to play the game offline - in the end, some of them will opt to use a crack even if they bought the game.
3.Browser(flash/JavaScript platform, game stored on server)
Mostly just for simple toy games.

Most serious games are either developed for PC or consoles.

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-31 11:05

>Most serious games are either developed for PC or consoles.
CaptainObviousStrikesAgian.jpg

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-31 11:53

>>21
1.Onlive(video games as video streams)
How's the tachyon research going, huh?

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-31 14:10

>>21
I played Assassin's Creed 2 5 months ago anyway.

CONSOLES WIN AGAIN!

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-31 14:39

wtf is this place O_O why arnt there any images ....
>implying this board is anyhting but shit
:P

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-31 14:48

>>29
back to imageboards!

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-31 16:36

>>30
Fuck of-, oh fuck I'll allow it.
As >>30-san said, please go back to where you came from.

Name: Anonymous 2010-11-28 4:06

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-21 0:08

Don't change these.
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