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whats wrong with C#

Name: VIPPER 2009-07-23 4:11

and why shouldn't I learn it?

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-23 4:12

It's not purely functional.
See above.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-23 4:13

.Net runtime


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Remember happiness doesn't depend upon who you are or what you have; it depends solely on what you think.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-23 4:14

.Net roonteeme-a


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Remember heppeeness duesn't depend upun vhu yuoo ere-a oor vhet yuoo hefe-a; it depends sulely oon vhet yuoo theenk.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-23 4:40

>>3
>>4
whats so bad about that

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-23 4:51

>>5
1.Its MS-Only.
2.Its slow and does questionable things in background(aka malware).
3.It require users to install the runtime.
4.Its a virtual machine and cannot directly interface with the system.

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Peace cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-23 4:51

>>5
1.Its MS-Oonly. Bork Bork Bork!
2.Its sloo und dues qooesshuneble-a theengs in beckgruoond(eka melvere-a). Bork Bork Bork!
3.It reqooure-a users tu instell zee roonteeme-a. Bork Bork Bork!
4.Its a furtooel mecheene-a und cunnut durectly interffece-a veet zee system. Bork Bork Bork!

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Peece-a cunnut be-a echeeefed thruoogh feeulence-a, it cun oonly be-a etteeened thruoogh understundeeng.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-23 5:19

>>6
It's also not the only way to run programs written in C♯.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-23 5:29

>>6
1.Its MS-Only.
Mono is a non-MS implementation. The language is standardized and open.
2.Its slow and does questionable things in background(aka malware).
Not really, the source is freely available from Microsoft, and you can easily decompile managed parts too. It can do things in the background, such as JIT-related optimizations, if you let it.
3.It require users to install the runtime.
Or it comes preinstalled. One runtimes installed once, so you can use a lot of other applications which require it.
4.Its a virtual machine and cannot directly interface with the system
Huh? Ever heard of P/Invoke, it's how FFI is done in C#, there's also the possiblity of having native code in the PE file mixed with bytecode (managed C++)

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-23 5:33

>>9
Welcome to /prog/. Please, do not feed low-quality trolls. We have standards.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-23 5:33

The more i hear about what MS does with C, the less i like it.

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A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-23 5:33

Zee mure-a i heer ebuoot vhet MS dues veet C, zee less i leeke-a it. Bork Bork Bork!

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A svurd is nefer a keeller, it's a tuul in zee keeller's hunds.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-23 9:01

>>9
Mono is a non-MS implementation. The language is standardized and open.

It's like I'm actually reading a Microsoft press release!

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-23 9:13

Mono is to .Net as Wine is to Windows.
MS plan is to lock everyone to use "one runtime to rule them all"(i bet they have similar plans with hardware drivers).
Since MS dominates the PC market this is in realm of possibility: developers are easy to influence and MS has enough resources to promote the API. WinAPI is standard today, but Wine is closing gaps with MS implementation.
.Net with its rapid cycle of development(new .Net versions vs WinAPI stable) will choke any app-layer compatibility efforts for the foreseeable future.


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A State is absolute in the sense which I have in mind when it claims the right to a monopoly of all the force within the community, to make war, to make peace, to conscript life, to tax, to establish and dis-establish property, to define crime, to punish disobedience, to control education, to supervise the family, to regulate personal habits, and to censor opinions. The modern State claims all of these powers, and, in the matter of theory, there is no real difference in the size of the claim between communists, fascists, and democrats.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==C=H=E=F=*=+= 2009-07-23 9:13

Munu is tu .Net es Veene-a is tu Veendoos. Bork Bork Bork!
MS plun is tu luck iferyune-a tu use-a "oone-a roonteeme-a tu roole-a zeem ell"(i bet zeey hefe-a seemiler pluns veet herdvere-a dreefers). Bork Bork Bork!
Seence-a MS dumeenetes zee PC merket thees is in reelm ooff pusseebility: defelupers ere-a iesy tu infflooence-a und MS hes inuoogh resuoorces tu prumute-a zee EPI. Bork Bork Bork! VeenEPI is stunderd tudey, boot Veene-a is cluseeng geps veet MS implementeshun. Bork Bork Bork!
.Net veet its repeed cycle-a ooff defelupment(noo .Net ferseeuns fs VeenEPI steble-a) veell chuke-a uny epp-leyer cumpeteebility iffffurts fur zee fureseeeble-a footoore-a. Bork Bork Bork!


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A Stete-a is ebsuloote-a in zee sense-a vheech I hefe-a in meend vhee it cleeems zee reeght tu a munupuly ooff ell zee furce-a veethin zee cummooneety, tu meke-a ver, tu meke-a peece-a, tu cunscreept leeffe-a, tu tex, tu istebleesh und dees-istebleesh pruperty, tu deffeene-a creeme-a, tu pooneesh deesubedience-a, tu cuntrul idooceshun, tu sooperfeese-a zee femeely, tu regoolete-a persunel hebeets, und tu censur oopeeniuns. Bork Bork Bork! Zee mudern Stete-a cleeems ell ooff zeese-a pooers, und, in zee metter ooff zeeury, zeere-a is nu reel deefffference-a in zee seeze-a ooff zee cleeem betveee cummooneests, fesceests, und demucrets.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-24 0:13

this is why its slow

1. You input Code
2. It builds a code through a virtual machine
3. That spews out machine code
4. Comp reads machine code

other languages skips the virtual machine, which can save time (and money)

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-24 0:53

>>13
It's like I'm actually reading an Apple press release!

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-24 4:07

>>17
It's like I'm actually reading a relevant post!

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-24 4:09

>>16
You'd think this was right. In practise, it isn't correct.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-24 6:22

>>16
Whats a virtual machine?

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-24 7:50

>>20 see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_machine



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Let me have those letters and I'll send them to Santa's workshop in the North Pole.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-24 8:05

>>1
I don't know if there's a real drawback in C#. It's basically a crib of Java... The real point is: it's a Microsoft product, and every retarded that has a bare idea of how the IT world works knows that MICROSOFT = THREAT.

Nothing surprising if there's so much distrust of C#, it just another Microsoft product.

Also, if you are a free software guy, you may appreciate this article from the FSF website:
[url]http://www.fsf.org/news/2009-07-mscp-mono[/url]

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-24 8:23

>>16
[url]
（　≖‿≖）

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-24 8:31

>>23
>>16
（　≖‿≖）

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-24 8:40

Spoiler:Schiichan doesn't use normal BBCODE. Its a severely limited version of forum BBCODE.




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Only the dead have seen the end of war.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-24 8:42

>>25 Don't remind us ;_;

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-24 8:55

>>24
I'm not sure how I managed that one!

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-24 8:55

>>21
So what's the difference between a VM and an emulator?

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-24 10:10

>>28 VM doesn't replicate real hardware. Thats why its called a 'Virtual machine'
Emulator e.g. Gens, replicates the Sega Genesis processors, graphics units and executes roms
If the Emulation is exact, its called "hardware virtualization"
VM e.g Java execute bytecode(of Virtual instructions into current platform native code)


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A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-24 11:23

>>29
Yes, they can, and shut up.

>>28
An emulator is a type of virtual machine that attempts to replicate the behavior of hardware through software.
All (software) emulators are virtual machines, but a virtual machine is not necessarily an emulator.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-24 13:35

>>30 If they did, no one would buy real hardware like PS3.
 Its obviously slower then hardware it emulate unless the underlying hardware is order of magnitude faster then emulation target.




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Attaining one's dream requires a stern will and unfailing determination.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-24 13:54

>>31
Do you listen to yourself? First you say they don't, then you say they do but that they're slow? Are VMs incapable or slow at it?

1. Any piece of hardware can be emulated through software (VM), and vice versa. Speed is not a factor; we're discussing whether it's possible, not whether it's practical.
2. Writing the software takes time. Obviously, it's impossible to emulate something that doesn't exist yet (unless you already have the specification), So a PS3 will exists as only hardware for a few years, until someone finishes writing an emulator for it.
3. They're called "virtual machines" because they're not physical. Not because there's some kind of unwritten law that states a virtual machine always has to implement an architecture that doesn't already exist as hardware.

IHBT, but fuck it.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-24 15:27

>>32 unwritten law that states a virtual machine always has to implement an architecture that doesn't already exist as hardware.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_machine#Emulation_of_the_underlying_raw_hardware_.28native_execution.29
The standard x86 processor architecture as used in modern PCs does not actually meet the Popek and Goldberg virtualization requirements. Notably, there is no execution mode where all sensitive machine instructions always trap, which would allow per-instruction virtualization.


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There are periods in the life of human society when revolution becomes an imperative necessity, when it proclaims itself as inevitable.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-24 16:21

>>1
Nothing major with the language itself.
The problem is with the bad track record of the chair-throwing-monkey-boy who's selling it.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-24 16:28

>>34 You see single trees when there is forest.


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To interpret laws is almost always to corrupt them.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-24 17:49

>>33
You're just replying with non sequiturs, aren't you?
How is the fact that x86 doesn't support virtualization of itself very well related to what I said on >>32 ?

Since you like quoting from that article so much,
A virtual machine was originally defined by Popek and Goldberg as "an efficient, isolated duplicate of a real machine". Current use includes virtual machines which have no direct correspondence to any real hardware.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emulator
An emulator duplicates the functions of one system using a different system, so that the second system behaves like the first system.

Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-24 18:05

>>36 You can't emulate x86 on x86, so full virtualization fails.



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In hatred as in love, we grow like the thing we brood upon. What we loathe, we graft into our very soul.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-24 18:13

>>37
Yes, you can. You just can't do it at a time scale of 1.
All hardware has a software equivalent, and vice versa.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-24 18:20

>>34
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Name: =+=*=F=R=O=Z=E=N==V=O=I=D=*=+= !frozEn/KIg 2009-07-24 19:07

>>38 >>33



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That social order and control, structure of governance, social cohesion in states or organizations larger than face-to- face society depends on the nature of the technology of memory--both how it works and what it remembers... In short, what societies value is what they memorize, and how they memorize it, and who has access to its memorized form determines the structure of power that the society represents and acts from.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-24 19:25

>>40 >>38
Don't change these.
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