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Emacs vs Vim

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 18:23

Which is better?

Personally I use Emacs just because modal editing seemed too strange to me.  Typing 'i' every time I wanted to type something was annoying, so I just learned Emacs instead.

Please be civil in this discussion about programming.  If you wish to troll and be rude, try one of the image boards.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 18:27

I use notepad++, mainly because it has all the features for productive programming (file browser, extension-based compiling, syntax highlighting), with the benefit of loading up at the same speed as notepad.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 18:29

I used to use Emacs, but now I use Eclipse. (True story-- this is not a troll).

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 18:34

Vim is a terrible program with a brain-dead interface, so I use Emacs.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 18:36

>>1
Emacs is better, because you can emulate Vim in it, but you can't emulate Emacs in vim. ;)Seriously though, I use vim the majority of the time, but if I'm programming in lisp or scheme I use emacs

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 18:37

>>2
Actually its startup time isn't that great. Very acceptable but not really fast by any means (about ~1s here, versus ~0.1s for Notepad)

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 18:42

i use nano

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 18:45

I use the language's best IDE because I don't live in the 70s. If the language has no real IDE, I use Notepad++.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 18:47

I use vim invoked as vi because I'm used to it I forced myself to it after finding nano idiotic. :wq is like a reflex for me; d% and V[movement]d save shitloads of time and energy. The command line is simple, I can edit huge chunks of text with a minimal number of keystrokes and opening a file for editing takes 3 less keystrokes than it would with Emacs.
I never bothered with Emacs, apart from that time I wanted to play a few text-based games, which I then didn't do after seeing the size of the download I had to do. Should I bother, or may I continue wiling on the help system to learn the 95% of the commands beyond :tabe file that I know so far?

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 18:56

>>1
Your a gay homo nigger.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 19:19

I used to use Kate, but now I use Vim. I tried Emacs once, but I find Vim's commands easier to remember and to execute.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 19:20

vim for everything but scheme, for which I use DrScheme. Modal editing makes perfect sense, it's like switching between typing and using the mouse, only without actually using a mouse.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 19:25

I write all my code in ISPF's editor.

Name: ED MEME FAN 2009-06-14 19:40

ED!!! ED!!!

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 19:46

>>11
Kate is good. Unfortunately I use Gnome and installing KDE stuff feels like violating the purity of my sacred environment.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 19:49

>>9
opening a file for editing takes 3 less keystrokes than it would with Emacs.
Uh, what?
Emacs: [right ctrl↓][x][f][right ctrl↑]
vi: [left shift↓][:][left shift↑]e

>>12
Modal editing makes zero sense. It's like switching between typing and using the mouse, except you can type one-handed while using the mouse, and it wouldn't be possible to accidentally type on the mouse or try to navigate with the keyboard.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 19:54

↑ 0x2a 26 points 2 hours ago [-]
↓ I evaluated TM vs. VIM for my personal/professional usage. Though I generally liked TM, I sticked to VIM in the end:
  • Available on every platform I work on
  • A lot of learnings apply to classic vi + other clones too
  • Free as in beer and wine or however that saying goes
  • The author (Bram Moolenaar) really tries to make the world a better place by supporting the children in Uganda
  • By using MacVIM, you can get some Apple Look & Feel on OS X, which is a great improvment over X11/GTK gvim.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 19:56

>>16
As in, initially, from the login shell.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 20:34

By using MacVIM, you can get some Apple Look & Feel on OS X
Bug, not a feature.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 20:55

>>16
You can type one handed with the other hand on the mouse when you're not moving it (at least I never saw anyone do otherwise). In Vim you can type two handed when you're not “moving the mouse”.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 20:59

[b][u]VISUAL STUDIO .NET 2008 ENTERPRISE EDITION[/b][/u]

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 21:05

>>20
In Emacs you can alternate between typing one-handed and moving the mouse, without a time-consuming mode switch, making multiple short edits easier. Additionally, you can make small keyboard cursor movements without a time-consuming mode switch. In Emacs you can type two-handed when you're not “moving the mouse”.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 21:17

>>22
If you think pressing Esc (or, in my case, Shift+Tab) is time-consuming, then you're hopeless. Also, set mouse=a for your vague edge case.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 21:23

I use Microsoft Word for editing.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 21:28

I spend more time thinking than writing code: editor speed is irrelevant, only comfort matters, therefore I'd sooner use Notepad than a 70's freeware.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 22:15

>>25
you say only comfort matters and then you choose an editor that's almost as bad as emacs?

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-14 22:20

>>23
When I'm writing code, I think about code. When I use Vi, I must also think about Vi's current mode at the same time. I can work that way but it doesn't mean that it is not distracting.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 0:02

When I'm writing code, I think about code. When I use Emacs, I must also think about its 200+ shortcuts and its edit mode at the same time. I can work that way but it doesn't mean that it is not distracting.

Name: FrozenVoid 2009-06-15 0:38

When i'm writing code, i'm only writing code. Notepad2 doesn't seem to get in the way, and syntax highlighting often helps.
I never use any shortcuts except Ctrl-c(copy) Ctrl-v(paste) ctrl-s(save), and i don't need to switch to a special mode or
enter commands into a prompt. It all works within current context, which your vi/emacs/etc mess up and complicate enormously.
_____________________________________________
http://xs135.xs.to/xs135/09042/av922.jpg
orbis terrarum delenda est

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 0:45

well, i would never use Emacs because i hate RMS Matthew Stallman with fiery passion.
so i suppose VIM

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 0:58

I can't use vim because I hate those ugandan kids

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 1:47

I love vi and use it to this day but the first time I tried it the shortcuts made me rage.
They all make sense now though

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 2:48

Nothing better than vim.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 3:32

>>23
If you think it's less time consuming than pressing nothing, you're hopeless.

set mouse=a
So, what you're saying is that the most effective way to use Vim is to stay in insert mode and avoid its main interface? I agree.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 3:32

>>33
You've obviously never used ed or vi or even elvis or nvi.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 3:35

>>18
If Emacs isn't your login shell, you're doing it wrong. And even if it isn't, you shouldn't be closing Emacs in the first place. The initial cost of typing “acs” is amortized over the entire number of file openings.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 3:42

EVE :== EDIT/TPU

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 4:09

>>36
???????? ???????????? ???????????? ????????????????????, ???????????? ???????????? ???????????????????????? ???????? ????????????????????.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 4:33

>>27
What a load of shit! If you're not editing text at a certain moment in time, you should be in command mode, No Exceptions

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 5:05

>>39
Command mode this *grabs dicke*

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 5:25

>>26
I'm not.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 10:17

Fuck all this shit. I just use cat. Why use anything else? Seriously.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 10:27

>>42
I edit modally. I use echo and less.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 10:28

>>42
Fuck yeah. But I also use head and tail

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 11:59

I use XKate, the xfce port of Kate, because KDE is PIG DISGUSTING.

Name: !Da6cBCM2hc 2009-06-15 12:25

...

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 17:19

>>34
If you think it's less time consuming than pressing nothing, you're hopeless.
If you think it's time consuming enough to offset the overall editing speed gain, then you probably never bothered to learn to use Vim.

So, what you're saying is that the most effective way to use Vim is to stay in insert mode and avoid its main interface? I agree
No I think that there's nothing stopping you from indulging in your mouse faggotry if you must.

Now fuck you and you're family, you dirty nigger.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 17:35

>>47
the overall editing speed gain
Lolwut. “Switching modes all the time makes me edit faster.”

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 17:56

>>48
Yeah, keep holding onto that straw man, nigger. Then shove it up your ass and set it on fire.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 17:57

<- that way to /b/

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 19:28

>>49
I notice your utter lack of a counter-argument. Presumably because there's no way in hell that switching modes all the time to access an overcomplicated system of cursor movement that requires counting words and lines to achieve any semblance of efficiency could possibly make you faster.

Name: Expert Vim User 2009-06-15 19:43

>>51
I for one don't use number commands in most cases when they'd be applicable. Instead, I prefer the "text objects" that allow me to select and replace the current word, sentence, paragraph, string, brace pair, etc.; though when I can see at a glance that there are only two to four entities I need to change, I'd rather type c3w than veeec or something like that.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 20:59

>>52
Yes, poor, filthy Vimmers are stuck deciding whether to retype whole sentences or to count how many words until the one they intend to change.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-15 22:47

>>53
and stupid EMACSers can't tell the difference between 3 words and 4 words without counting.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 0:04

I really like Vim's movement system. I once decided to leave the editor wars and build my own editor from scratch. One that just had exactly what I needed and none of the bloat. I noticed I was ending up with a Vi clone, so I went back to Vim

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 0:12

>>54
WHAT IF THERE ARE SIX WORDS‽

Do Vimmers only write in three and four word sentences?

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 0:13

>>55
I really like Vim's movement system.
Why in the world?

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 0:42

>>57
I don't like reaching out to the mouse, and I'm pretty fast with it

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 0:53

After playing nethack for a few years you learn the movement keys pretty well.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 2:19

>>59
I'd hope it wouldn't take that long to know them very well, much less “pretty well”. Or are they just so poorly selected that they're nearly impossible to learn?

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 3:21

>>60
hjkl = left right up down

What's so hard about that?

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 3:38

>>61
What's hard is that they're splayed all across the keyboard, and I don't want to use two hands in an unnatural arrangement just to operate a cursor.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 3:47

>>62
It actually works pretty well, unless you consider the home row an unnatural arrangement.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 4:13

>>61
Well, don't ask me. I'm just asking why it takes a few years to know them even “pretty well”.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 4:16

>>61
Are you seriously trying to argue the fact that "hj" going left/right and "kl" going up/down is good? Seriously?

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 4:19

>>63
But only one of those keys is on the home row.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 4:36

>>66
Guys, I think what we have here is a Dvorak user attempting to legitimize his pointless keyboard layout by pretending that a reasonable person could assume it was the default layout under discussion.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 4:53

>>67
hax my anus, faggot.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 5:06

>>68
I think I already did.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 10:38

Am I the only one who tries to use hjkl in other software aswell? I wish Firefox had that builtin.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 10:54

>>70
I wish more softwares used C-a and C-e. Too bad that C-a would collide with "select all" in most softwares.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 11:11

Every has their favorite editor. Why argue?

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 11:15

>>72
Every has their favorite editor.
What. You're making no sense.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 11:22

>>72
Please be civil in this discussion about programming.  If you wish to troll, sage and be rude, try one of the image boards.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 11:41

>>74
Spoiler: Emacs vs VIM is ancient trolling device. Works since 80's and pretty much everyone on *nix is vulnerable.
The recipe is simple: When one side gains some advantage, trolls switch to the weaker side and flame back.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 11:44

>>70
Sometimes, I also hit the escape key fairly often.:wq

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 11:51

When I started using "MULTICS without balls" back in the mid 90's the SunOS machine I was using had VI, so I learned to use it. I've found that most machines I've used since have VI, and rarely have Emacs. If for no other reason I use VI to this day.

Also, when I was six years old, back in the mid 80's, my old man put me in front of a terminal connected to some VAX mini so I could play around while he was working. So there's some nostalgia there too.

I've never even bothered to learn Emacs.

Therefore, my reasons are not reasonable. They are human.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 12:16

>>77
::wipes tear from eye::

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 12:28

Also, when I was six years old, back in the mid 80's
DAMN KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN

Learn to use both, never can tell what that box you log in to will have.

Emacs is however clearly superior.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 12:47

>>78
E492: Not an editor command: :wipes

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 15:09

>>79
Learn to use both, never can tell what that box you log in to will have.
Every POSIX-like is guaranteed to have vi. If it doesn't have vi, it's more likely to have Notepad than emacs.
Therefore, learn vi and Notepad.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 15:23

>>81
I don't have time to learn two editors. Notepad will just have to go.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 15:32

plan 9 doesn't have vi or emacs. but it does have ed.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 15:40

>>83
In the heart of every Vimmer there's an Edder.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 15:43

>>82
Notepad will just have to go.
You fool! Think of the great features you're missing out on.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 15:49

OP earns 85 trollpoints.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 18:07

That poll on Xarn's blog proved definitively that /prog/ overwhelmingly uses vim.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 18:12

>>87
no, it proved that vimmers and emacsers waste time voting  in pointless internet polls, unlike vi and ed users.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 18:12

>>87
It also revealed a horrific number of Eclipse and Textmate users.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 19:46

>>89
SHUT UP I LIKE TEXTMATE

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 20:07

>>90
Me too!
But we're the same person.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 20:08

>>90
You mean you like the screencasts amirite

Name: Aonoymous 2009-06-16 21:33

>>92
The best screencast is the one for SQL on Rails.

I think Textmate's syntax highlighter is a pretty cool guy, eh gets away with using /b/ memes and doesn't afraid of anything.

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 21:44

TEXmate

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-16 22:28

>>84
Indeed. Vimmers should all embrace their inner edder, then grow up into fine, upstanding Sammers.

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-27 22:47

>>39

Thou shalt use a proper grammar and of course Emacs ruleth!

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-28 3:10

>>95
If they're feeling futuristic, they can even become Acmers after that.

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-28 4:38

vim is far better for editing code simply because you don't "edit" so much as you write an ad-hoc program to edit the file.

With just a few keystrokes, I can change the name of the function I'm in the middle of editing and return the cursor to the place in the function I was editing it or repeat the last edit I made 30 times.

It takes some getting used to at first because you're not using a text editor, exactly, but it's far better than Emacs which tries to think of text in the form of a story.

You don't write code the same way you write a story and neither should your editor.

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-28 4:43

>>98
Call back when you've cloned SES

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-28 5:04

>>98
You don't write code the same way you write a story and neither should your editor.

Maybe you don't

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-28 5:36

once upon a time there:
   was x;
   and
   was y;
   they lived happily ever after:
   until 0;
the end;

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-28 6:50

>>99
i don't program with spreadsheets, do you?

http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=558

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-28 6:54

What did Richard M. Stallman's wife say to him in bed?

EMACS MY ANUS

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-28 7:19

Fuck your emacs and your vim.

Gedit is the place to be, you faggots.

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-28 7:45

>>98
AN EXPERT LATEX MACROLOGIST WOULD LIKE A WORD WITH YOU

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-28 7:49

>>105
Hax my anus. Faggerton!

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-28 20:53

No one else likes SciTE but me.

Poor SciTE ;_;

Name: Anonymous 2010-03-01 11:49

vim

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