Outsourced developers.

Which outsource country in your opinion has the worst developers. I have to say it's India. They don't know how to code properly, when they can't figure out how to get an SDK or API working with their code they blame it on everyone else but themselves. I see them constantly go to public forums and ask help for their commercial code and instead of taking advice they cry and constantly beg for the actual code they need and they won't go away until they get it.

Anybody else have experience having to deal with outsourced developers?

>>1
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>>1
I've noticed this quite a lot myself. I was browsing a video lecture site several weeks ago for some information on Operating Systems, and there were at least a hundred comments per video from Indian developers. This wouldn't be bad, if it weren't for the fact they were all asking the same questions and these were already adequately answered in the FAQ. I suspect that they must be getting paid a ridiculously low wage, because I wouldn't pay good money for an app developed by people who couldn't navigate a simple website.

It's not the Indians that's the problem, it's the managers who think outsourcing to India is a good idea.

>>4

No it's the Indians. I understand wanting cheap labor, I just hate that India actually tries to sell itself as affordable computer developers when they are absolute shit. You get what you pay for and I hope more managers realize this and stop using India.

>>4,5
It's actually both, though I'd be inclined to blame the managers since it is their decision in the first place and they shouldn't be outsourcing their main business anyway.

>>6
shouldn't be outsourcing their main business
What gave you that idea? America has to outsource because their workers are just no good. I don't so much mean lazy- but as a result of democracy you have workers choosing how much they get paid, be it in their best interests in the long run or not (read: GM). That is the major flaw with democracy, that it rests on the premise people are smart enough to decide who should lead them. To say managers shouldn't be outsourcing a job to somewhere they can afford to pay for, is simply silly. Government mandated wages are silly, and now being too stupid to see that is what the problem is, they are paying companies to hire national workers, from money they don't have. sage

>>7
The point of outsourcing is that you have some other company take care of the non-essential parts of your business i.e. you hire a cleaning company instead of employing your own, so that you can focus on the essential parts. The advantage of this is that a specialized firm for catering, cleaning etc. will be cheaper and better because that is their main business and you will be able to focus on your main business.
If your company is supposed to be writing software and you are outsourcing that then you are doing it wrong. In effect, your company is then little more than a wrapper around some other company.

That is the major flaw with democracy, that it rests on the premise people are smart enough to decide who should lead them.
The real major flaw with democracy, is that anyone who is smart enough to warrant a place in government doesn't want the job.

>>8
You sure hold programmers in high regard. Software companies are NOT about writing new software. They are about maintaining existing solutions, and reselling them to new clients. Writing software is so small of component of running a software company it is funny that you even mention it. Ebay? Microsoft? The amount of programmers on their payroll would be laughable. It's like saying Coca-Cola is merely a wrapper around the company that invented the formula.

>>8
This, but unfortunately this isn't the case with most business. A lot of "development" firms are actually run by business guys who come up with application ideas and outsource all the actually coding to a foreign country. They'll hire a couple of engineers to plot out design of the application but all the code is done in India. India is so cheap that i've seen people forego the engineers and just straight out tell the Indians their ideas and have them write it all up.

Mark my words though, shit is going to hit the fan soon when several companies realize that a lot of the code in their apps is stolen or reused by the same company in other projects. I've already seen first hand several instances of this, it's only a matter of time before a large development firm has this happen to them and lawsuits start flying.

>>9
You don't seem to understand the general point I was making. Whatever your companies main business is, it should be focused solely on that. Everything else should be geared around making sure they can do that with the minimum amount of trouble.

Ebay, for example, is about allowing people to buy and sell things online. Their focus is on keeping that site up and running.
Coca-Cola is about manufacturing and distributing soft drinks, and that is what it should be focusing on.
Anything else is not as important to their core business and these companies could outsource to other companies.

>>11
It's amazing how far you stretch words to suit your argument. "Software Companies are about keeping good client relationships and finding a niche software market where they can successfully atain and maintain a solid customer base. Anything else is not as important to their core business and these companies could outsource to other companies." You are trying to present yourself as the sole and absolute authority on what is and is not acceptable to be outsource, which is cute, I'll admit.

Indians and Pakis are the worst buyers and the worst coders/programmers out there.  I only saw 1 (one) decent Indian developer who just happened to study in their top tech university; everyone else I had worked with was so clueless and lazy that it was hilarious at times, but usually resulted in me doing all the job.

>>12
I'm not trying to be a sole authority, I'm trying to say what is and what is not a sensible thing to outsource. A simplistic view is 'outsource the things that do not make your company money directly'. My arguments are grounded in common sense and not necessarily representative of how companies do it in practice.

Your arguments are also grounded in YHBT. You can md5 "YHBT" without the quotes for proof if you wish.

>>15
``YHBT''

>>16
RFEAQGUGIORTE SQ UFOETWEESR

Version 2.0, released under the Noncommercial Creative Commons License.

>>12
I did not interpret anything written in >>11 as being an authority in anything really. If anything, I interpreted >>8 as a common sense account of the situation.