Why is Java so popular

The introductory programming course at uni teaches Java, but you don't have to take it if you know a programming language. Should I teach myself python over the summer (I already know the basics) and avoid having to learn Java? Or are the haters just people who are scared of object orientation.

Python has OO too.

Sun is pushing it* so ENTERPRISE managers and shitty uni's think it's good. It's not.

* http://www.sun.com/solutions/landing/industry/education/edusoftware.xml , https://jedi.dev.java.net/ etc

>>1,3
like it or not, the fact that it's EXTREMELY popular means that there's jobs out there. so, if you're planning on being a programmer IRL then go ahead and learn SUN MICROSYSTEMS JAVA 6 ENTERPRISE EDITION and whatnot. even if you don't become a JAVA ENTERPRISE SOLUTIONS ENGINEER you'll still have some know-how, which is much more important.

besides, what could it hurt? if you don't like the language, don't use it. if you like it, use it. it's only one semester - if you end up not flunking out, they'll surely teach you more than JAVA.

the more practice you have /prog/ramming, the better.

_{so just take the FUCKING class and STOP BITCHING and MOANING about JAVA being a bad language just because you read some SHIT online.}

____________________
You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough.

Teach yourself Python, then learn Java at uni. I hate Java as much as the next person with a brain, but if you want to be a good programmer you should learn as many languages as possible. And if you're going to learn Java, you may as well get some credits out of it.

Of course if you don't want to be a good programmer, Java is an excellent option.

OK i think I will do that -- learn python now and over the summer and next semester I'll learn java at uni. When I start java though is it a good idea to independantly teach myself another language at the same time or is it better to learn languages one at a time?

>>6
Most of the effort involved in Java is learning the APIs. If you like, you can try learning another, more flexible JVM language (Clojure, Groovy, whatever) and experiment with using the exact same APIs from there.

>>6
Always learn at least three (3) languages simultaneously.

Why people hate Java:

The language sucks. It is not OO as not everything is an object. int type and Integer object. Shit.

Interface methods must be public. Shit.

Exception handling is a joke. catch can only handle a single exception type.

Empty interfaces uses as annotations.

The JVM is always shit.

It is slow and a resource hog. Every fucking object as a sync monitor. All of them.

Generics are a performance nightmare. The JVM stores all generic instances as object and boxes/unboxed them when used instead of just storing them as their type.

The JVM and Java language make performance sacrifices to be forward and backwards compatible. However, most code is specific to a JVM version anyways because this is done so poorly.

Other JVM languages are a joke, they are only wrappers for Java and not first class.

If you want to learn a true OO, garbage collected, cross platform language/framework stick with .Net.

>>9
EXPERT JAVA TROLLING

>>9
I know I H B T, but still: Although the JVM isn't the best VM design out there (register machines are faster, dammit) it's production-quality and it's available everywhere. Deploying to JVM bytecode is a pretty easy way to put your code on one of those insanely parallelized server machines with over 9000 CPUs.

And yes, someday soon a newer, better VM will finally be strong enough to kick the JVM's ass.

>>11
LLVM?

>>12
Maybe. Just maybe.

It's written in Sepples, and the API is exposed as a Sepples API instead of a C API, so my hopes aren't high.

>>13
There is a C API, as well as an OCaml one, a Python one, and several others.

The problem I have with it is it's still a frigging stack machine.

Parrot is the only inherently register-based machine I know of, and it's documentation is shitty and its "let's make Perl into an assembly language".

>>14
What's wrong with friggin' stack machines?

>>15
They're slow. Cf. Ruby and Python.

You can JIT them to speed them up (which is why Java is fast these days) but this benefits register machines even more than stack machines anyway.

I am under the impression that LLVM always uses SSA. See e.g. http://llvm.org/demo/index.cgi

>>1
learn Perl or C instead

>>18
NO WAI

RUBY IS THE ONE TRUE LANGUAGE

>>14
What about Inferno's Dis and Android's Dalvik?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dis_virtual_machine
Its design is based on a Register machine,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalvik_virtual_machine
Unlike most virtual machines and true Java VMs which are stack machines, the Dalvik VM is a register-based architecture.

>>17
It does, but it's still stack-based, which is fail as fuck.

>>20
It was written by Dan Bornstein, who named it after the fishing village of Dalvík in Eyjafjörður, Iceland, where some of his ancestors lived.
"GRUNNUR"

>>16
Wut. Did you just use a couple of interpreted languages as examples in an attempt to paint stack machines as slow? Java is faster than Ruby and Python, and the JVM is a stack machine. What now?

>>9 here.

You kids are ignorant faggots. There is no trolling. Everything I fucking posted is 100% true and 100% shit. And I can keep going.

The fags at Sun can't even write a fucking library with a single standard naming convention (just like more of you). Failing faggots.

There is no standard mnemonic representation for bytecode, an importance that probably 3 of you here will understand.

The .Net CLR already kicks JVM's ass. The fucking Java language dialect on .Net also kicks ass. J# even removes obsolete shit Sun keeps in there because they are terrible, and it adds type safe function pointers for Java because Sun was too faggy to implement it.

In a few more years the .Net CLR will be as ubiquitous as Java. Its already got Windows 98+, Loonix/Mac OS and some mobile platforms. The .Net CLR is also better for developers. 40+ languages and there has been only 1 "VM" version that introduced a backwards breaking change, and that was over 5 years ago. Unlike Java which breaks shit it its inane attempt to not break shit.

You kids are really just too stupid to understand.

>>23
Java may be faster, but it's still slow and wastes a ton of memory.

>>24
Too bad Microsoft has it on a short leash. They're only allowing Mono to exist because it's good publicity for them. I don't expect them to hesitate even for a second to change their step once they deem it financially suitable to pull the plug.

>>26
The CLR, BCL, and C# specification are open standards, which means that anyone can reimplement them. The only unknown is reimplementing WinForms/ASP/etc. So, if you want to be safe, don't use Mono's implemention of them.

>>24
EXPERT TROLL

>>24
7/10. Not enough ad hominem attacks, red herrings or strawmen.

>>25
Java is also all OO, all the time. Think that has anything to do with its slow?

Fuck your VM languages, native ones will always be more efficient.

>>30
What about my slow?

>>32
Java posts on /prog/‽

>>31
Some of us have the requirement of multiple architecture deployment. Write once, run anywhere.

So much Java hate in this thread.
Could it not be said that all touring-complete languages are equal, because they can all solve exactly the same problems?

That being said, it's irrelevant because anybody who doesn't program in Java does not have a job. Enjoy your 6.821 course; I'll be out in the real world designing scalable turnkey solutions for enterprises and getting laid on weekends.

>>35
Equal in this case means "can adequately simulate a Turing machine". Languagues are definitely not equal in terms of computational overhead or human cognitive burden.

>>35
Could it not be said that all touring-complete languages are equal
Apparently not, although we were doing an excellent job of not saying it until you came along.

>>26
there are actually two open source .NET implementations, mono and that gnu one which might be stable enough to be usable a few years after they finish rewriting the hurd.

>>31
http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=javaxx&lang2=gcj&box=1

>>34
99% of my c code runs on more architectures than java does. and the parts that don't can't be done inside the JVM anyway.

>>38
I'm not touching Mono with a 10 foot pole because of aggressive IMAGINARY PROPERTY litigation (let alone .NET). The history of the company responsible for .NET makes me believe that Icaza is like a chimpanzee copying a shit castle built by a pack of baboons in the same cage. He is bound to be mutilated over it, sooner or later. Like many before him

Runs everywhere.
Robust.
High level.
Java.
Thread.

>>40
0/10

Runs only on JVM.
Weak.
Incredibly high level where everything takes twenty times the necessary amount to do anything.
Java.
Thread.

>>40
>Runs everywhere Sun bothers to port it's JVM
>Shits 50 page long stack traces on error
>EVERYTHING IS AN OBJECT WOOO _{except the primitives}
>Java.
>Thread.
Fixed.

>>41
>>42
>It's open source. Everything can be ported to everywhere.
>Exception and assertions everywhere.
>Even the primitives can be made Objects.
>Java.
>Thread.

>>43
>It's open source. Everything can be ported to everywhere.
only if you're willing to rewrite a non-trivial amount of it.
>Exception and assertions everywhere.
too bad exceptions are...
>Even the primitives can be made Objects.
they can be wrapped in objects. they can't actually be made into objects.

>Exception and assertions everywhere.
too bad exceptions are...
Exceptions are basically gotos for people who don't want to use gotos

>>45
I lol'd.

>>45
the words you were looking for were "slow as fuck".

>>45
Haskell doesn't have Goto ;_;

>>48
Goto Dengo?

>>45
gotos don't longjmp.

>>40
Runs everywhere.
Java programmer 1: Hey! Did you ever wonder what's... you know... outside the JVM? I mean... where does our Code go when we run our servlets? And what happens to all those nested exceptions when they get handled?
Java programmer 2: There's probably some other, bigger JVM that handles that. The exceptions probably fall off the edge and into that bigger JVM where they're taken care of.
Java programmer 1: And where does that JVM run it's code?
Java programmer 2: It's JVMs all the way down, man. You're worrying too much.

THE WORLD IS A GIANT JVM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>51
I finally understand that fucking story now.

>>48
It's called the Continuation monad

>>51
ahahahhaa

>>51
Everywhere in this context refers to everywhere that JVM is ported. I know, ihbt.

>>51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta-circular_evaluator



__________________________________
Why do you insist that the human genetic code is "sacred" or "taboo"? It is a chemical process and nothing more. For that matter -we- are chemical processes and nothing more. If you deny yourself a useful tool simply because it reminds you uncomfortably of your mortality, you have uselessly and pointlessly crippled yourself.

>>57
facepalm.txt

1. simple syntax
2. few ugly useless language feature hacks(unlike c#)
3. fast
4. object oriented
5. eclipse
6. runs in browser
7. high level
8. huge well documented api's
9. businesses make decisions on what best meets their needs, not whats cool amongst the kiddies on /prog/
10. /thread

>Why people hate Java:
Oh boy this should be fun

>The language sucks. It is not OO as not everything is an >object. int type and Integer object. Shit.
One quirk of the language, all languages have quirks, doesn't affect anything other than making it a little harder to learn, and its already one of the easiest languages to pick up.

>Interface methods must be public. Shit.
No need for private interface methods, perhaps you should learn what polymorphism is and when you should use it.

>Exception handling is a joke. catch can only handle a single >exception type.
Another non-issue from a Microsoft fanboi.

>Empty interfaces uses as annotations.
This isn't a sentence, you fail.

>The JVM is always shit.
Blatantly false.

>It is slow and a resource hog.
False

>Every fucking object as a sync monitor. All of them.
No performance hit for multi-threaded issues unless you specifically request locking/synchronization features.

>Generics are a performance nightmare. The JVM stores all >generic instances as object and boxes/unboxed them when used >instead of just storing them as their type.
Definitely not a nightmare, all handled automatically, the way C# does it causes just as many issues as type-erasure does.

>The JVM and Java language make performance sacrifices to be >forward and backwards compatible. However, most code is >specific to a JVM version anyways because this is done so >poorly.
False, the core syntax of the language has hardly changed at all aside from generics.

>Other JVM languages are a joke, they are only wrappers for >Java and not first class.
Ummm, ok.

>If you want to learn a true OO, garbage collected, cross >platform language/framework stick with .Net.
C# is a java clone that happens to have met with some success because it has Microsoft behind it pushing it.  C# is nearly identical to java with the addition of some ugly language hacks.

>>60
YHBT

>Interface methods must be public. Shit.
No need for private interface methods, perhaps you should learn what polymorphism is and when you should use it.


Let me demonstrate why an interface shouldn't be forcibly public.



#include <iostream>
#include <string>

class base
{
public:
 void go()
 {
  this->set();
  std::cout << str << std::endl;
  std::cin.get();
 }
protected:
 virtual void set() = 0;
 std::string str;
};

class derived : public base
{
protected:
 void set()
 {
  str = "CUDDER";
 }
};

int main(int argc, char* argv[])
{
 base* a = new derived;
 a->go();
 delete a;
}

>>62 is in response to >>60

>>63 is in response to >>64

why doesn't java allow multiple inheritance?
that's really annoying

>>62
What do you think you're doing? This is Sepples, and with single-space tabs. What the fuck are single-space tabs?

>>62
What are you trying to say there?

>>67

I'm trying to say that you might want pure virtual functions to be encapsulated. You might only need to use them from within the base class, and you don't want them to be called by a user of your class.

>>62
Read the first sentence.
http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/concepts/interface.html

>>69

No, no, NO NO NONONONONONONOO

FUCK YOU

YOU'RE WRONG

Methods form the object's interface with the outside world; the buttons on the front of your television set, for example, are the interface between you and the electrical wiring on the other side of its plastic casing.
Interfaces are supposed to face the public?

interfaces,
what are they actually good for?
except ofcourse for reminding you that you need to copy and paste that function code which you are unable to inherit

>Oh boy this should be fun
Prepared for ignorant shit.

>One quirk of the language, all languages have quirks, doesn't affect anything other than making it a little harder to learn, and its already one of the easiest languages to pick up.

It's not a fucking quirk faggot. Is is a basic design flaw. Instead of efficient primitive types and OO types, the fags should have made efficient OO types.

>No need for private interface methods, perhaps you should learn what polymorphism is and when you should use it.

Fucking faggot, I never said private shit head. There are other access modifiers.

>Another non-issue from a Microsoft fanboi.

Having to handle every single exception type separately. You are obviously a fag who doesn't understand how to write good code. Only enterprise programmers tolerate no exceptions because their language makes it fucking a waste of time to deal with them.

>Empty interfaces uses as annotations.
>This isn't a sentence, you fail.

You obviously failed CS 101. Example: the serializable interface has no members. It is only there to mark the class as being able to serialize. Serializable isn't really a fucking interface then is it fucktard. The sole purpose is to indicate semantics. Also known as a fuckin annotation. Annotations are annotation and interfaces are interfaces. In Java, interfaces are incorrectly used as annotation. You fail at the basics.

>The JVM is always shit.
Blatantly false.

>No performance hit for multi-threaded issues unless you specifically request locking/synchronization features.

Allocating a large amount of unused resources is a fucking performance hit faggot.

>Definitely not a nightmare, all handled automatically, the way C# does it causes just as many issues as type-erasure does.

What fucking issues are there with "the way C# does it"? There are none. Unlike faggy Java, the code for generics in .Net is loaded only once in to memory. There is no reason to load the same fucking instructions multiple times for multiple instances like Java. The single set of instructions will work on all fucking instances. Java loads the same instructions for each instance and then adds its own faggy boxing instructions on top of that. C++'s stupid macro templates are even better than Java's awful way of doing this.

>False, the core syntax of the language has hardly changed at all aside from generics.

I didn't say shit about the faggy Java syntax.

>Ummm, ok.
Multiple dispatch, you have no idea what the fuck it is or why it is so fucking terrible that Java only has single dispatch.


>C# is a java clone that happens to have met with some success because it has Microsoft behind it pushing it.  C# is nearly identical to java with the addition of some ugly language hacks.

J# is the Java clone, and it fixes Java by removing tons of depreciated shit and adding features the JVM will never cope with. C# is just what Java wishes it was. But C# is shit because C syntax is fundamentally shit.

>>73
And you obviously don't understand strong typing.

I'll bet you a dollar that there are at least 3 older threads exactly like this one around /prog/.

>>60
I like a man that backs up his statements with benchmarks, research and studies and avoids anecdotes or hearsay.

Oh wait...

>It's not a fucking quirk faggot. Is is a basic design flaw. Instead of efficient primitive types and OO types, the fags should have made efficient OO types.
1) If you are so concerned about efficiency you better start coding in C, I think you forget that there is a fucking VM between your code and the CPU.  The more you whine about inefficiencies I can tell that you are coding in the wrong language, no interpreted language will ever be as fast as native, and making pointless changes to the language just so it goes .1% faster is dumb.  Future versions could easily just auto-wrap primitives for you where needed, except that they won't because nobody gives a shit since they already have auto-unboxing.

>Fucking faggot, I never said private shit head. There are other access modifiers.
Look up interface in the dictionary.

>Having to handle every single exception type separately. You are obviously a fag who doesn't understand how to write good code. Only enterprise programmers tolerate no exceptions because their language makes it fucking a waste of time to deal with them.
try{ //blah}
catch(Exception ex){};
Or nest them, lets see so this C# language hack saves you 5 characters, nice. Exceptions aren't as common as you seem to think they are that this is an issue.


>You obviously failed CS 101. Example: the serializable interface has no members. It is only there to mark the class as being able to serialize. Serializable isn't really a fucking interface then is it fucktard. The sole purpose is to indicate semantics. Also known as a fuckin annotation. Annotations are annotation and interfaces are interfaces. In Java, interfaces are incorrectly used as annotation. You fail at the basics.

Who fucking cares? Using interfaces as annotations is rare.

>Allocating a large amount of unused resources is a fucking performance hit faggot.
not large. Can i remind you that you are coding for a fucking VM? Please code in C if you have so many issues with this.

>What fucking issues are there with "the way C# does it"?
They made all C# 1.0 and 1.1 code break.  The only reason they could do this is because nobody actually codes in C#.  Java generics use less memory than C# and have a small performance hit. k.

>Multiple dispatch, you have no idea what the fuck it is or why it is so fucking terrible that Java only has single dispatch.
"Multiple Dispatch" lends itself to ugly code. Just like your ugly parents lent themselves to an ugly baby.  Using code logic based on the run time type is ugly and bad.

>J# is the Java clone, and it fixes Java by removing tons of depreciated shit and adding features the JVM will never cope with. C# is just what Java wishes it was. But C# is shit because C syntax is fundamentally shit.
J# was MS's attempt to embrace and extend and extinguish java.  Then they realized people weren't going to fall for that shit again, and Sun's java was succeeding. So they made C# calling it the new hotness and totally unlike java, even though its syntax is laughably identical to java's, even though they keep and throwout the same exact features of C that java did, even though Microsoft makes inferior clones of hundreds of products.  Retarded faggots like you STILL bought into the kool-aid and are preaching .NET

Learn how to quote properly, fuckstick.

>>77
Java generics are shit because they exist only in the Java language and not the JVM. When Microsoft added generics to .NET, they kept the old, non-generic collections exactly as they were, but then added new, generic versions in a separate namespace. That means that old code could be recompiled on .NET 2.0. Why couldn't Java have done that?

>>60
C# is nearly identical to java with the addition of
some ugly language hacks.

Ugly language hacks? Like what? Delegates and events? Lambdas? LINQ? Closures? None of those look ugly to me.


using System;
using System.Collections.Generic;
using System.Linq;

static class Beautiful
{
    // A simple example of a closure. Makes use of delegates
    // and lambdas.
    public static Func<int> MakeCounter(int i)
    {
        return () => i++;
    }

    public static void Main(string[] args)
    {
        // type inference lessens the need to type redundent code like
        // List<int> list = new List<int>();
        var c = MakeCounter(0);
        var list = new List<int>();

        for(int i = 0; i < 50; ++i)
            list.Add(c());

        // A simple LINQ expression. Could also write as:
        // var evens = from i in list where i % 2 == 0 select i;
        var evens = list.Where(i => i % 2 == 0);

        foreach(var even in evens)
            Console.WriteLine(even);
    }
}

>>35
>I'll be out in the real world designing scalable turnkey solutions for enterprises and getting laid on weekends.

Enjoy your SCALABLE ENTERPRISE TURNKEY dreams.

>1) If you are so concerned about efficiency you better start coding in C, I think you forget that there is a fucking VM between your code and the CPU.  The more ...

Good fucking point faggot. If an app runs on a VM, then fuck it. Nothing needs to very be done efficiently as possible or properly because something else exists that is more efficient.

Your powers of reason are astounding.

>Look up interface in the dictionary.
The restricted Java definition of interface does not cover all aspects of the general OO definition of interface. Look it the fuck up yourself.

>Or nest them, lets see so this C# language hack saves you 5 characters, nice. Exceptions aren't as common as you seem to think they are that this is an issue.

C# doesn't have a fucking language hack, it just doesn't implement checked exceptions the faggy way Java does. Adding a new exception type to a Java class is a version breaking change for callers.

>Who fucking cares? Using interfaces as annotations is rare.

Of course, who the fuck writes Java apps that communicate their data to dissimilar systems by serializing objects, or clone instances with cloneable. That is obviously best left to more modern frameworks.

>They made all C# 1.0 and 1.1 code break.

No they fucking didn't. C# 1.0 and 1.1 just can't call methods with generic parameters. It can certainly use methods that implement generics but don't expose the generic parameter to the caller.

>The only reason they could do this is because nobody actually codes in C#.

Except, last year 50% of medium to large business created new applications on the .Net framework.

>Java generics use less memory than C# and have a small performance hit. k.

No they fucking don't. Multiple instances in Java load multiple duplicate copies of their instructions in to memory. C# only loads the instructions once (as in less) for reference types. Generics in .Net are a performance improvement and a coding improvement. In Java it is a coding improvement at the cost of performance.

>"Multiple Dispatch" lends itself to ugly code.

AHAHAH, no. You don't understand the implications. If the JVM had multiple dispatch, then it could run other real first class languages. Sun has been trying for years to implement this with no success.

>J# was MS's attempt to embrace and extend and extinguish java.

No faggot, that was MSes Java VM. J# was only made to bring Java devs over to .Net so the whiny fags would have minimum trouble adjusting to a slightly different syntax of C#.

Java is great. Despite the enourmous benefit of type-safe function pointers, Sun didn't implement them because it would be "too hard" for programmers. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaa. Sub thinks Java devs are fucking stupid children. They might be right for once.

>>81
Jumping fucking Jesus, learn to quote.

>>82
Yeah, how do they keep on getting it wrong.

It's not that hard.
>Is it because they don't put a space between the > and the quote?

>>83
it's because they touch themselves at night

>>83
ONE WORD, THE FORCED INDENTATION OF QUOTES, THREAD OVER

>>82
I[o]
shall[o]
quote[o]
[b][u][i]nothing[/b][/u][/i][/o][/o][/o]

>>86
I
shall
quote
nothing

I FAIL
at
multieline :-(

what the fuck is o

>>81
It's clear you are mostly trolling at this point. Your criticism of Java are weak at best, blatantly false at worse.  I will return to using a first class language and IDE(Eclipse) to code.  Regardless of what I say you just won't get it since you are too inexperienced and too stupid to appreciate what makes Java better than its competitors.  I will let you go back to sucking Billy's cock now.

What's it called when trolls troll each other? To me, both the pro-Java guy and the anti-Java guy are just being extreme to troll the other; the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

>>91
Meta-trolling

>>92
Meta-troll-evaluator?

>>90

Are you some first year CS failure. You didn't even understand what "first class" meant in that context.

Every fucking word of what I said it 100% true. If you faggots knew anything, you would understand the huge flaws in Java at the lowest levels of its shit. Your inability to understand does not make what I said any less correct.

But thing like dynamics dispatch, non-language specific OO principals an apparently basic computer software engineering principals.

Java is just fine and dandy, the best shit ever, and the reason is your own ignorance? Fucking kids these days.

Also, maybe the shit head how cobbled together this shitty site in PHP should implement a consistent quoting system throughout all the fucking boards. I don't bow to his stupidity, or yours.

>>94
Please have a proofread version of this post on my desk by this time tomorrow.

test[o]
test ?

you know what i hate about OO languages?
the fact that it's near impossible to work using anything except a fully fledged IDE. i can't stand it when an IDE tells me i've made an error before i've even finished typing the line of code, or when it automatically inserts braces and parenthesis, leaving me with {}} because i had the audacity to actually want to type my own closing brace.

that's why i prefer languages like C; i don't need anything except a minimalistic text editor & gcc.

>>97
Any of the multitude of people who have programmed non-trivial Java in notepad or equivalent are now laughing at you.

>>98
i don't believe such people exist.
prove me wrong

>>99
I wrote the time recording system for the company I was at 10 years ago in Java, using notepad as editing support (porting an earlier C-with-X Unix app for use on Windows) and a batch file build system.

>>97
So you can't:

a) Program like a _{REAL MAN} with a basic text editor
or
b) Program like a ^FAGGOT with an IDE, and have the basic intelligence to use the fucking Options menu.

Read SICP.

>>100
holy shit!
java was actually around 10 years ago? i don't know why, but i find this discovery amazing

>>102
I remember reading a few years ago about job advertisements for Java programmers with 3 years experience in Java. The problem was, the public Java platform was less than 12 months old.

Appeared in     1995
today 2009
java is 14 years

>>95

I am a programmer. There is an entire team of literature failures to proof read shit. They know shit about boolean algebra and I could give a shit about the "tone" of my communications.

>>97

I was at some faggy presentation where an MS fag made an entire MVC website in nothing but Python and notepad. Since MS employees can do this, you fail.

Some of you fags need to realize that programming like it is 1977 is not only stupid, it is fucking sad. CS and CSE have advanced since then, and to not use the tools at your disposal is to be a complete failure as a programmer.

>>105
It just works™

>>105
4/10. You could perhaps up the rage level a bit.

>>105
Most of /prog/ are social introverts who can't accept the fact that programming isn't hard anymore. It's almost like flipping burgers now, you know, it really is quite easy. So, in order to give their lives some meaning, they artificially create difficulty where it's not needed, so they can say to everyone "Oh look at this, look at all of these difficult things that I do. Look how good I am"
But of course they don't say that because they're introverts.
And so life imitates art.

Some of you fags need to realize that programming like it is 1977 is not only stupid, it is fucking sad.
what's sad is that in all the years since it was written, no one has managed to come up with a better text editor than an extended version of ed.

>>108
for fuck sake,
are you really so inexperienced with your language of choice that you consider it difficult to write programs in it without automatic code generation and a spell checker holding your hand?
languages that don't have gigabytes worth of esoteric classes and functions are easy to write without that crap

>>110
4/10. You could perhaps up the rage level a bit.

>>111
And so /b/ imitates /prog/.
However, [spoiler]IHBT[/spoilter].

>112
2/10

>>108
EXPERT TROLL, that is actually telling the complete truth.

That's not too say it's not good to master a language like c, but to be using it for everything is not necessary. Ok its good for systems programming, and anything where speed is the most important thing, but not everything is like that, and I am now gradually learning that and my productivity is SOARING

>>114
What?  C is the easiest language, it is the legendary ``right tool for the job.''  You can never go wrong with C, the product will be finished much faster and run much faster.

For everything else, there's Haskell.

>>115
Oh noes sir yuo must bee mistaken. Teh strings and arrays are terrible

>>116
REAL MEN use character arrays.
your reliance on dynamic strings is why you never get laid

>>117
No, I have been a c programmer for years. Now recently I am broadening my programming horizons in an attempt to get laid. I hope to meet some nice ruby girls

>>118
I used to fuck a girl who programmed Python. She was a hot goth type and liked it rough and kinky.

>>119
no u didnt

>>120
I did, actually.

>>121
pics or stfu noob

>>97
you know what i hate about OO languages?
the fact that it's near impossible to work using anything except a fully fledged IDE. i can't stand it when an IDE tells me i've made an error before i've even finished typing the line of code, or when it automatically inserts braces and parenthesis, leaving me with {}} because i had the audacity to actually want to type my own closing brace.

that's why i prefer languages like C; i don't need anything except a minimalistic text editor & gcc.
Use a proper IDE.

>>97
I program Java in Notepad++. The only thing that used to annoy me was it didn't auto de-indent when i done a closing brace; but I have gotten used to this now and just shift-tab automatically whenever I close brace. (yes I know there is probably some addon to do this but I couldn't be fucked finding it at first; and now the technique is stuck with me)

>>108
Pretty much right. That burger-flipping analogy can be taken a bit farther. The market needs a lot of cheap, disposable burger-flippers. (Java programmers) They need them to churn out loads of plain sandwiches, but there will be always a market for Chefs and experienced Cooks. These "Chefs" and "Cooks" in our analogy are programmers with degrees. Those Chefs don't shy away from making burgers, specifically, because they are professionals.

Imagine you're a client at a restaurant. If a burger is on the menu (very unlikely), it will be the most delicious burger you can imagine.

Things get complicated if a burger is not on the menu and you want one. If you'll give them a choice, they'll make your taste-buds orgasm. You can order a burger from them and they'll politely offer something else. You can refuse, but you're either going to eat spit, pay 50 bucks or both.

Moral of the story: You're a whiny virgin.

>>124
Using java without eclipse(or another comparable IDE) is like getting blowjobs all your life but never having sex.  You are missing half of the goodness.

>>125
THey have programmers without degrees?

>>126
BECAUSE YOU'D KNOW ABOUT ALL THAT SORT OF THING WOULDNT YOU, Ensign Virgin

>>126
If Eclipse gives blowjobs then Visual Studio would be the crack whore, whose boyfriend stabs you in a dark alleyway to get your wallet.

>>127
Anything below the English equivalent of a PhD isn't considered an academic degree (at least where I live).

>>129


Eclipse is complete shit compared to Visual Studio.

I am sure you fags didn't know that MS distributes a free version of VS that includes no language support to allow you to implement any fucking language you want on it, and then distribute that freely.

And because it is not written in Java, it performs well and has a wealth of useful features.

You must live in some sort of Brave New World, because where I'm from finishing High School is considered as having an academic degree. Anything extra is just unnecessary.

>>132
In the Old World, actually. I live in a country which founded the world's first Ministry of Education. A Masters degree is considered the highest "professional title" but not an academic one. The distinction is practically syntactic as of the Bologna process.

Anything extra is just unnecessary.
I really don't know why I bothered to reply.

>>109
You use sam too‽?

>>131
Link please

>>135
http://www.GOOGLE.com

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=www.google.com

Java fucked up enums too. What's all that about? Amateurs.

>>136
Didn't find it. GIVE ME THYINK.

>>138
Actually they made it awesome, see http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/language/enums.html

>>140
If by awesome, you mean retarded then I agree

>>141
Do you have trouble with reading comprehension? When I say awesome, I mean awesome. You most likely have a mild form of aspergers, to have made such an erroneous mistake in comprehension. I would see your local GP about that, guy.

>>142
Hello, sir! May I interest you in our newest product?
They are called Enterprise enums!
^{They are} _provided as an implementation of an abstract class so you can extend their functionality to confuse the SHIT out of your developers and break stale programming paradigms. C++ templates ain't got shit on this misfeature.

how do i <b><i>make text cool?</b></i>

>>144
By achieving satori.

JAVA IS THE BEST PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE.
I USE JNODE AS MY OPERATIVE SYSTEM.

I a set accumulator.