Why is Java so popular

The introductory programming course at uni teaches Java, but you don't have to take it if you know a programming language. Should I teach myself python over the summer (I already know the basics) and avoid having to learn Java? Or are the haters just people who are scared of object orientation.

Python has OO too.

Sun is pushing it* so ENTERPRISE managers and shitty uni's think it's good. It's not.

* http://www.sun.com/solutions/landing/industry/education/edusoftware.xml , https://jedi.dev.java.net/ etc

>>1,3
like it or not, the fact that it's EXTREMELY popular means that there's jobs out there. so, if you're planning on being a programmer IRL then go ahead and learn SUN MICROSYSTEMS JAVA 6 ENTERPRISE EDITION and whatnot. even if you don't become a JAVA ENTERPRISE SOLUTIONS ENGINEER you'll still have some know-how, which is much more important.

besides, what could it hurt? if you don't like the language, don't use it. if you like it, use it. it's only one semester - if you end up not flunking out, they'll surely teach you more than JAVA.

the more practice you have /prog/ramming, the better.

_{so just take the FUCKING class and STOP BITCHING and MOANING about JAVA being a bad language just because you read some SHIT online.}

____________________
You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough.

Teach yourself Python, then learn Java at uni. I hate Java as much as the next person with a brain, but if you want to be a good programmer you should learn as many languages as possible. And if you're going to learn Java, you may as well get some credits out of it.

Of course if you don't want to be a good programmer, Java is an excellent option.

OK i think I will do that -- learn python now and over the summer and next semester I'll learn java at uni. When I start java though is it a good idea to independantly teach myself another language at the same time or is it better to learn languages one at a time?

>>6
Most of the effort involved in Java is learning the APIs. If you like, you can try learning another, more flexible JVM language (Clojure, Groovy, whatever) and experiment with using the exact same APIs from there.

>>6
Always learn at least three (3) languages simultaneously.

Why people hate Java:

The language sucks. It is not OO as not everything is an object. int type and Integer object. Shit.

Interface methods must be public. Shit.

Exception handling is a joke. catch can only handle a single exception type.

Empty interfaces uses as annotations.

The JVM is always shit.

It is slow and a resource hog. Every fucking object as a sync monitor. All of them.

Generics are a performance nightmare. The JVM stores all generic instances as object and boxes/unboxed them when used instead of just storing them as their type.

The JVM and Java language make performance sacrifices to be forward and backwards compatible. However, most code is specific to a JVM version anyways because this is done so poorly.

Other JVM languages are a joke, they are only wrappers for Java and not first class.

If you want to learn a true OO, garbage collected, cross platform language/framework stick with .Net.

>>9
EXPERT JAVA TROLLING

>>9
I know I H B T, but still: Although the JVM isn't the best VM design out there (register machines are faster, dammit) it's production-quality and it's available everywhere. Deploying to JVM bytecode is a pretty easy way to put your code on one of those insanely parallelized server machines with over 9000 CPUs.

And yes, someday soon a newer, better VM will finally be strong enough to kick the JVM's ass.

>>11
LLVM?

>>12
Maybe. Just maybe.

It's written in Sepples, and the API is exposed as a Sepples API instead of a C API, so my hopes aren't high.

>>13
There is a C API, as well as an OCaml one, a Python one, and several others.

The problem I have with it is it's still a frigging stack machine.

Parrot is the only inherently register-based machine I know of, and it's documentation is shitty and its "let's make Perl into an assembly language".

>>14
What's wrong with friggin' stack machines?

>>15
They're slow. Cf. Ruby and Python.

You can JIT them to speed them up (which is why Java is fast these days) but this benefits register machines even more than stack machines anyway.

I am under the impression that LLVM always uses SSA. See e.g. http://llvm.org/demo/index.cgi

>>1
learn Perl or C instead

>>18
NO WAI

RUBY IS THE ONE TRUE LANGUAGE

>>14
What about Inferno's Dis and Android's Dalvik?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dis_virtual_machine
Its design is based on a Register machine,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalvik_virtual_machine
Unlike most virtual machines and true Java VMs which are stack machines, the Dalvik VM is a register-based architecture.

>>17
It does, but it's still stack-based, which is fail as fuck.

>>20
It was written by Dan Bornstein, who named it after the fishing village of Dalvík in Eyjafjörður, Iceland, where some of his ancestors lived.
"GRUNNUR"

>>16
Wut. Did you just use a couple of interpreted languages as examples in an attempt to paint stack machines as slow? Java is faster than Ruby and Python, and the JVM is a stack machine. What now?

>>9 here.

You kids are ignorant faggots. There is no trolling. Everything I fucking posted is 100% true and 100% shit. And I can keep going.

The fags at Sun can't even write a fucking library with a single standard naming convention (just like more of you). Failing faggots.

There is no standard mnemonic representation for bytecode, an importance that probably 3 of you here will understand.

The .Net CLR already kicks JVM's ass. The fucking Java language dialect on .Net also kicks ass. J# even removes obsolete shit Sun keeps in there because they are terrible, and it adds type safe function pointers for Java because Sun was too faggy to implement it.

In a few more years the .Net CLR will be as ubiquitous as Java. Its already got Windows 98+, Loonix/Mac OS and some mobile platforms. The .Net CLR is also better for developers. 40+ languages and there has been only 1 "VM" version that introduced a backwards breaking change, and that was over 5 years ago. Unlike Java which breaks shit it its inane attempt to not break shit.

You kids are really just too stupid to understand.

>>23
Java may be faster, but it's still slow and wastes a ton of memory.

>>24
Too bad Microsoft has it on a short leash. They're only allowing Mono to exist because it's good publicity for them. I don't expect them to hesitate even for a second to change their step once they deem it financially suitable to pull the plug.

>>26
The CLR, BCL, and C# specification are open standards, which means that anyone can reimplement them. The only unknown is reimplementing WinForms/ASP/etc. So, if you want to be safe, don't use Mono's implemention of them.

>>24
EXPERT TROLL

>>24
7/10. Not enough ad hominem attacks, red herrings or strawmen.

>>25
Java is also all OO, all the time. Think that has anything to do with its slow?

Fuck your VM languages, native ones will always be more efficient.

>>30
What about my slow?

>>32
Java posts on /prog/‽

>>31
Some of us have the requirement of multiple architecture deployment. Write once, run anywhere.

So much Java hate in this thread.
Could it not be said that all touring-complete languages are equal, because they can all solve exactly the same problems?

That being said, it's irrelevant because anybody who doesn't program in Java does not have a job. Enjoy your 6.821 course; I'll be out in the real world designing scalable turnkey solutions for enterprises and getting laid on weekends.

>>35
Equal in this case means "can adequately simulate a Turing machine". Languagues are definitely not equal in terms of computational overhead or human cognitive burden.

>>35
Could it not be said that all touring-complete languages are equal
Apparently not, although we were doing an excellent job of not saying it until you came along.

>>26
there are actually two open source .NET implementations, mono and that gnu one which might be stable enough to be usable a few years after they finish rewriting the hurd.

>>31
http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=javaxx&lang2=gcj&box=1

>>34
99% of my c code runs on more architectures than java does. and the parts that don't can't be done inside the JVM anyway.

>>38
I'm not touching Mono with a 10 foot pole because of aggressive IMAGINARY PROPERTY litigation (let alone .NET). The history of the company responsible for .NET makes me believe that Icaza is like a chimpanzee copying a shit castle built by a pack of baboons in the same cage. He is bound to be mutilated over it, sooner or later. Like many before him

Runs everywhere.
Robust.
High level.
Java.
Thread.