I'm planning to get sufficient knowledge regarding c++ so I can get into the video game industry. Problem is, I'm finishing university at a very different field which is not even remotely connected to anything vidja. I'm looking for books to learn from, and I'd like to ask people's aid in my quest.
Why C++? I do not want to spend years studying others for basics. I have a good understanding and I'm pretty logical in mind. I figured I'd have to change to C++ anyways, so why not starting with it? Any recommendations?
Also, do you think there are possibilities for programmers without highschool and university degrees? I'd finish some quck half-year power courses, but I'd work it out from books and with the help of friends, mainly.
[quote]Also, do you think there are possibilities for programmers without highschool and university degrees?[/quote]
lmao
Name:
Anonymous2008-12-19 21:59
Alright, that is not very constructive so far.
Name:
OP2008-12-19 22:10
No book proposes? What a let down.
Name:
Anonymous2008-12-19 22:16
What level are you at now? Do you have any programming experience at all or do you not know what a function is?
Name:
Anonymous2008-12-19 22:24
I'm really about to get into it. Got some books and been busy reading and coding basic stuff in my free time, but I have no solid background education-wise. I'm planning ahead for years to come.
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Anonymous2008-12-19 22:29
>>1
I'd recommend focusing on C rather than C++. It's a much cleaner language for a beginner (which I assume you are). C++ pollutes the language with a bunch of poorly-thought out OO features that as a game programmer probably aren't even important to you. It's better to get the basics down first without worrying about Stroustrup faggotry.
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Anonymous2008-12-19 22:32
>>8
Thanks mate, do you happen to have any books for recommendation?
Name:
Anonymous2008-12-19 22:34
Alright, that is not very constructive so far.
Young man, /prog/ prides itself on being unscientific and ultimately destructive. The Sussman himself has deemed it so.
Name:
Anonymous2008-12-19 22:35
It's strongly suggested that C++ not be your first programming language. If your plan is to move on to C++ as soon as you can, then learn C. C++ (for the most part) is a superset of C, but a nitpicky pedantic asshole will read this and tell me how wrong I am. Preemptively, fuck him. If you know C++ then you know C.
Since I presume you've already got a development environment set up for C++, do what you're doing already but name your files .c instead of .cpp so your compiler enforces this.
Get very, very, very used to these basic elementary concepts which are pretty much universal or very common amongst the languages and environments you will be working with. These are very vanilla, fundamental concepts that are not at all unique to C or C++ at all:
loops, functions, return values, argument passing, structures, external libraries and how to link to them, how to write reusable code, cohesion, rules of thumb for how long a function should be
This is all covered in Code Complete, 2nd edition by Steve McConnell, Microsoft Press. Get ahold of it. Right fucking now. Take advantage of your university's math/science library. It's $30 or so if your library doesn't have it.
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Anonymous2008-12-19 22:42
C++ (for the most part) is a superset of C, but a nitpicky pedantic asshole will read this and tell me how wrong I am.
I don't call the lion a domesticated animal just because it happens to share a lineage with domesticated felines. If your wrong, it's because your wrong.
>>9
So like what 11 said, even though C++ is a warty ugly piece of shit, if you're going to be in the INDUSTRY you'll most likely need to know it in-and-out regardless, just not yet. All that stuff that's in C++ and not C you really have to know what you're doing. If not, it'll just make your life a lot harder. There's a huge field of convoluted, hacky, arcane, obfuscated C++ tricks that people have figured out to work around these warts.
Advanced C++ books. Commencing namedrop:
Exceptional C++, Herb Sutter
Effective C++, Scott Meyers
More Effective C++, Scott Meyers
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Anonymous2008-12-20 2:33
For a beginner, Accelerated C++, byt Koenig and Moo -- it is about the only introductory book that doesn't lead you into bad habits of treating the language as C with a few bolt-on flanges.
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Anonymous2008-12-20 3:28
REALITY CHECK
What makes you think you want to be in the industry, programming games in Sepples? Let me see if I have this right. You have: no expertise in computer graphics, no expertise in physics simulation, no expertise in audio programming, no AI expertise, and no general programming experience? What in the world leads you to believe you would enjoy doing any of these things, much less makes you want to delve into the astoundingly painful world of Sepples before learning about what you'd actually be doing?
REALITY CHECK
Let's approach this from another angle. What part of the game making process are you most interested in? If it's the creative aspects, grunt programmers don't do that. If you want to be a game artist or a mapper, do that, and don't get side-tracked into programming.
If you want to be a game designer, then you'll have to program your own games to get experience and prove your skills, but you certainly don't have to lower yourself to working in Sepples on a personal project.
Only if you want to write the graphics, physics, sound, or AI code* for a commercial game will you have to dirty your mind with Sepples. And even then you've got a lot of studying to do to actually be useful in the field. You can get started with anything other than Sepples.
You said, "I figured I'd have to change to C++ anyways, so why not starting with it?" This is because you don't know Sepples yet. If you did, you'd understand why you want to avoid it as much as possible. A wise person would pick a language like Lisp and use it to find out if they even like writing graphics/ai/whatever code. If they do, then they can begin the Sepples grind. Your average smartish person would pick a generally good language like Python and do the same. You'll have to pick up Sepples eventually if it turns out you do enjoy programming game guts, but using Sepples to find that out is like using a drill press to find out if you like anal stimulation.
>>1
Programmers are merely secretaries in the overal scheme.
The designer comes up with the idea, breaks it down in a design document.
Gives the psudocode/flowcharts to the coders.
The concept art shit to the art fags and the musical concept to the sound engineers and then proceeds to cash his paycheque and snort cocain off a hookers ass whilst the coders impliment the design.
If you want to be a coder expect to work long hours, get paid a meagre wage and have almost no say in the overall design concept.
And maek vidya gaems is NOT nearly as fun as it sounds.
Fact 1: in the commercial world you will have no say in what your making.
Fact 2: you will be making a game you loathe, hate puzzle gaems? thats what you'll be building.
Fact 3: Even though you loathe it now thats nothing compared to how much you will six months down the line when youve been working with it for 18hrs a day.
Fact 4: Your an expendable member of the team, any fucking college dropout can sufficiently code a few functions and they all thing "MAEK VIDYA GAEMS" is an easy career choice.
Fact 5: VIDYA GAEMS CODARZ get paid less than coding anywhere else in the industry.
Fact 6: If your still reading this and not horrified at the prospect of becomming yet another broken desk monkey then your pretty much cut out for the industry.
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Anonymous2008-12-20 5:07
LOL vidya programmers.
Learn AJAJ and web 3.0 your way to $$$. or at least try to comprehend sicp and become legit. unless you're john carmack there's no glory or money in being a sepples slave.
Indies could make a cut, so OP should aim for that. Breaking in would be fuckalot harder though. Chekc World of Goo and 90% piracy rates. Heh.
Name:
Anonymous2008-12-20 6:47
0/10
Name:
Anonymous2008-12-20 7:09
HI JACK
Im a programmer looking for a job in the sussex area. I have 5 years commerical experience. Plz give me job
Name:
Anonymous2008-12-20 7:15
If you want to learn C++, don't start with C as some people in this thread suggested. You'll just learn C habits and use those in your C++ code. So you'll become another shitty C++ programmer who thinks C++ is just C with some object-oriented stuff tacked on. Although they are somewhat similar C and C++ are different languages. If you want to learn C++, then learn C++ and don't bother with C stuff that has no use in C++. I suggest >>18's recommendation of Accelerated C++.
You'll just learn C habits and use those in your C++ code.
And this is bad... how?
So you'll become another shitty C++ programmer who thinks C++ is just C with some object-oriented stuff tacked on.
Which means he would be correct.
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Anonymous2008-12-20 12:45
>>30
There's templates, exceptions and namespaces too.
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Anonymous2008-12-20 12:45
>>30 You'll just learn C habits and use those in your C++ code. And this is bad... how?
Using char* instead of std::string, using arrays instead of std::vector, using malloc instead of new, using #define instead of inline functions and constants.
So you'll become another shitty C++ programmer who thinks C++ is just C with some object-oriented stuff tacked on. Which means he would be correct.
That you couldn't tell why using C constructs in C++ is a bad idea suggests that you are in fact incorrect.
>>30 And this is bad... how?
C++ is C++. Programmers who go from C to C++ use C alternatives all the time in their C++ code instead of using the tools the language gives them. Learning a language totally unrelated to what you want to do just to get the ``basics'' is completely stupid and will make you a bad programmer.
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Anonymous2008-12-20 12:57
>>32 Using char* instead of std::string
In case you haven't already noticed, every fucking C++ library defines its own string class and refuses to operate using anything else.
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Anonymous2008-12-20 12:57
>>32
Inconsequential examples. Better ones would be never understanding object-oriented design, continuing writing procedural C code with only some C++ features tacked on.
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Anonymous2008-12-20 13:23
>>35
Perhaps so, although OO-design and C++ have little to do with each other. And using "only some C++ features"[1] is the best way to go. The only valuable features are classes, virtual methods, small pieces of the STL and judicious use of templates. Everything else is terrible and should be ignored (to the extent that it's possible, of course — the great thing about Sepples is that you'll have to learn everyone else's favorite subsets of the language in order to deal with third-party libraries and shit. Yay.)
>>36 small pieces of the STL
True story: I initially read that as `small pieces of SHIT' and then realized that at least I got the semantics right the first time.
It's about the efficient implementation of Geometric Algebra for computer graphics (or at least that is one of the applications). It should be about your level.
Effective C++ by Meyer. Which after reading if you are intelligent will make you drop C++ in search of other languages
but the journey will be good :P
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Anonymous2008-12-20 13:44
Video game coders also are fucking horrible
so the pay comes with how bad they are
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Anonymous2008-12-20 14:41
>>36
With "only some C++ features" I meant programming in C, but using new and delete instead of malloc and free. It happens more often than you'd think.
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Anonymous2008-12-20 15:18
>>41 programming in C, but using new and delete instead of malloc and free
I am intrigued by your idea. I will start programming thusly immediately.
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Anonymous2008-12-20 15:25
Game programming is better done as a hobby than as a job.
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Anonymous2008-12-20 15:39
If you want to learn C++ (which isn't a bad move) the journey will be good :P
Don't hurt the poor guy. The journey to Sepples will be painful and futile, and only a good move insofar as it accomplishes the goal of becoming a maltreated low-level code monkey forced to work in Sepples.
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Anonymous2008-12-20 15:41
Stroustrup must be assassinated.
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Anonymous2008-12-20 15:42
>>45
I assume you meant to say something about a time machine and doing it in the past.
Name:
Anonymous2008-12-20 15:48
STROUSTRUP IS A MURDERER
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Anonymous2008-12-20 15:59
Stroustrup did wtc
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Anonymous2008-12-20 16:43
>>46
Not necessarily, he's still going. Damage control, damage control!
"Sepples" is a worthless language. Everything you'll be doing in a proper ENTERPRISE setting will be on some kind of "FGJRÖULNNNIURR/" framework. It's what the "real pros" use.
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Name:
Anonymous2008-12-21 23:27
>>73
Reverse engineering of BBCODE violates the EULA. Also, the "GRUNNUR" needs to be in green.
Name:
Anonymous2008-12-21 23:35
>>74 "FGJRÖULNNNIURR/" is the streamlined, scalable ENTERPRISE implementation, suitable for being posted across thousands of threads without significant slowdown.
Name:
Anonymous2008-12-22 21:37
Asking this sort of question on /prog/ was your first mistake. Just look for books on C++ -- I remember when I used to post topics asking how/where/what-to-look at to learn C++ and I didn't learn shit from that. Just look at different books, practice, look for programming challenges, etc. When you think you're experienced enough, look at stuff on SF and rewrite it in C++ and hopefully you'll get better from there.
Asking here will only get you the following response:
- SICP
- LEARN C, C > C++
- HASKELL
- CUDDER
and many more of demonstrations of /prog/'s sillyness. Silly /prog/.
Then after that, WRITE A FUCKING NEURAL NET. Nah, just kidding. But anyway, good luck.
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Anonymous2008-12-22 21:46
>>76
Are you seriously taking Sepples seriously as a language?
>>12
Oh whoa! Hold on a minute there, I won't let this shit slide.
House cats are not domesticated felines. There is no such thing as a domesticated feline. The only reason they're called house cats is because you feed them and give them a place to crash at night.
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Anonymous2008-12-22 22:39
>>78
Look out, we have a Cat Person on our hands. Keep an eye out for gems such as: I don't own my cat; it owns me.
The next release of the groundbreakingANONIXGENERAL PURPOSE MACHINE CONTROL SYSTEM will include acompletely rewritten, blazingly efficient, feature-complete!version of `cat`.
Yes, it's a language. Now matter how many unix/C users bash it, it's still a language. I'm not saying it's the best language or even a good one to start off with, but it'st still a language.
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Anonymous2008-12-23 12:47
>>84
I asked whether he was taking it seriously, not whether it was a language.
You asked whether he was taking it seriously AS A LANGUAGE. Unless I'm going blind.
Name:
Anonymous2008-12-23 22:26
>>86
You're just going stupid. He might take it seriously as a threat to the future of our nation, for example. That would be fine. As a language, it's nothing more than a joke. Possibly a serious joke.