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RISC vs. CISC

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 1:00

ROUND 1 - FIGHT!

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 1:16

MIPS wins VAX by knockout.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 2:14

>>2
/thread

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 8:42

RISC sucks

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 8:44

HEWP is still better, not to mention NRIS.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 9:17

>>5
Non-resident indians?

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 9:18

>>2
ARM > MIPS

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 9:35

>>7
So which side is ARM again? Having two separate instruction sets isn't very RISCy, is it?

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 9:43

This debate is irrelevant in this age. The CPU manufacturers implement CISC functionality by combining RISC functionality. The only real reason to change to purely RISC machines would be to help the compiler authors by not having to target so many different opcodes.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 9:51

>>8
I would argue that ARM (with or without THUMB interworking) is still a RISC instruction set, though obviously not as simple as MIPS (which is stupidly simple and inefficient, space-wise). It's probably pretty debatable though.

Also, >>9.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 9:53

>>9
If it's so irrelevant, why does Intel's Atom still get crap performance per watt compared to any modern mobile processor with RISC roots?

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 10:29

>>11
Because Intel doesn't know shit about designing mobile processors?

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 10:31

>>11
Because it's hard to make x86 power efficient. Why did they even bother with x86 for a power efficient platform is a different matter altogether.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 10:44

>>13
You're implying that using a RISC architecture would increase power efficiency. >>11's question was purely rhetorical, suggesting that architecture choice is relevant.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 11:10

RISC is RISCy business lolol

Name: >>13 2008-08-20 11:11

>>14
I blame brain damage. BUT The Atom is using a RISC architecture to implement the x86 interface which has CISC roots.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 11:38

>>16
Intel processors have been using RISC-based microcodes for the past decade, what's your point? My current boss (shortly before announcing he hasn't touched a line of code in 5 years), during my interview showed me a plaque he was awarded for working on Intel's microcode implementation.

NOTHING NEW.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 11:40

My current boss
Did he really? Or is this just your way of saying "I will, along with my job"?

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 11:50

>>17
My point is that x86 is not suited for mobile and embedded platforms. It's kept around as a favour to Microsoft which can't be bothered to make their code cross-platform since NT (CE and Mobile don't count).

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 12:07

>>19
Actually, if one of them is doing the other a favor, it's Microsoft. If Microsoft went cross-platform, Intel yould be royally fucked.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 12:33

A Linux-based ARM laptop will come out and sweep the floor with current low-end laptops in terms of price, battery life, out-of-the-box functionality and user-friendliness. It will bridge the software gap to the other ARM-based mobile devices that are so ubiquitous nowadays, and the resulting software development trend will create a bottom-up wave that will extend far into the common desktop market. It all culminates with Microsoft halting development of Windows 7, and Vista thus marking the end of an era.

Then we'll talk about RISC vs. CISC, bitch. As a history note in computer science textbooks, that is.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 12:53

>>8
RISC isn't about having few instructions, it's really about having a load-store architecture.

Also, round 2:
Pentium Pro beats Alpha on T.K.O.

Name: HMA MEME FAN 2008-08-20 13:00

wtf
this isn't the /prog/ I know and love.

hax my anus.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 13:20

>>21
Not only will this never happen, if it did happen the laptops would be running some pig disgusting version of Ubanto and continue corrupting the minds of the masses with their stupid bullshit.

>>22
Hurr. That's not what they taught in my undergrad Computer Architecture courses, but given the state of ``higher'' education, I'm very inclined to believe the internet over anything some ``tried to work in the industry but wasn't good enough and now scrapes by doing minimal ``research'''' taught me in uni.

>>23
Consider your anus haxd.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 13:26

The terms RISC and CISC don't mean as much as they used to.  RISC architectures became more CISC-like when their designers realized the performance penalties of forcing developers to implement missing functionality in software.

A good example of this in MIPS would be the ei/di (atomically enable/disable interrupts) instructions added to MIPS32 rev.2.  According to RISC dogma, such instructions would be considered frivolous.

More generally, the simplest possible interface is rarely optimal.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 13:37

>>24
MIPS was a minimal design but eg. IBM's designs have not followed that philosophy, instead using specialized instructions where it makes sense (and as >>25 noted, the MIPS instruction count has been steadily increasing.)

Of course, compared to a VAX any instruction set is "reduced".

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 13:37

>>23
*haxes your anus*

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 13:58

A good example of this in MIPS would be the ei/di (atomically enable/disable interrupts) instructions added to MIPS32 rev.2.  According to RISC dogma, such instructions would be considered frivolous.

lol what? Then how would you atomically enable/disable interrupts without them?

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 14:19

>>28
trap 10

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 14:26

>>29
syscall

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 14:54

>>28
>>29
I think a trap exception could work, since it disables interrupts, and the general exception vector is used rarely enough that adding a special case for this purpose there wouldn't be too expensive.

>>30
The syscall vector is probably too performance critical to be used for that purpose.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 15:01

>>26
VAX your anux

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 15:04

>>32
lol

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 15:29

>>22
Hence the name Load-Store Architecture (Something) Computer?

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 15:35

>>34
Are you daft?
RISC = Radical Super Computer.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 15:37

>>35
Can I Suck Cock?
Really, I Suck Cock.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 15:42

>>31
The same vector is used for syscall and trap. You have to look at the cause register to figure out what happened. There is also no trap in MIPS-I.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 16:04

>>37
In fact, taking a closer look there is no plain trap instruction, they are all conditional. I'm starting to think that >>29's trap is some retard-o-tron alias for syscall.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 16:16

Coming from an x86 background (and having memorized much of the instruction set), MIPS looks so... boring.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 16:18

I feel bad, because this is the first thread I don't understand at all :(

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 17:56

>>37
I can't believe someone actually called me on that, but it is true.  Being vector-poor is another RISC-ism that IBM had sense enough to avoid.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 19:02

I really dislike low-level stuff.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 19:48

>>40
This stuff isn't that hard. Get some knowledge about electronic circuitry and you'd have the foundational knowledge to learn about the technology in large scale integrated circuits. It took me 6 months to get to this level.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 19:49

>>42
GTFO

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 21:02

>>44
Make me.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 21:07

>>45
/mode /prog/ +b >>44

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 21:09

>>46
Did you just ban yourself?

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 21:32

>>46
moar like
make: *** No rule to make target `me'.  Stop.>>46
, amirite?  (Huh.  Never noticed make's delicious faggot single quotes before.)

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 22:14

>>48
bash: Make: command not found

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-20 22:55

>>49
Pardon my Cygwin.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-21 6:51

CISC has been obsolete since the advent of pipelining.
The only reason it's still here is because of Intel figuring out capitalism, and the only reason people formulate shitty apologetics about it is because of pure retardation.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-21 10:02

make my anus

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-21 11:03

M y  a n u s  f e e l s  k i n d  o f  h a x e d  n o w :(

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-21 11:35

>>36
This is an accurate description of the CISC vs MIPS mantra. Protip: A modern processor is neither, or actually both in two layers at the same time.

>>37
Your OS goes, it's a trap!

Name: EY MEME FAN 2008-08-22 8:10

>>54
feggey

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-22 8:27

>>54
More like a syscall, amirite?

Name: EY MEME FAN 2008-08-22 10:55

>>56
More like a yyyceyy, amirite?

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-22 11:10

>>57
No.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-22 11:14

>>59
Yey.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-22 12:15

>>59
No.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-22 13:48

>>60
Yey.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-22 14:19

>>61
No.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-22 14:54

>>62
Yey.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-22 14:58

>>63
No.

Name: EY MEME FAN 2008-08-22 16:05

>>64
Yey.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-22 17:36

>>65
No.

Name: EY MEME FAN 2008-08-22 17:37

>>66
Yey.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-22 17:45

>>67
No.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-23 17:00

>>57-68
Die. Also, samefag.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-23 17:12

Name: EY MEME FAN 2008-08-23 17:22

>>69
Ye.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-23 17:46

>>70
PDFs suck, fuck off faggot

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-23 17:55

>>72
Is a MS Office user.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-23 18:28

>>70
tl;dr - RISC wins

Name: RISC part VII 2008-08-23 18:33

RISC

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-23 18:33

>>73 is an openoffice on windows me user.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-23 19:06

>>73
Office sucks too. I'm a plain-text or W3C recomendations user, because I want to keep my data in a readable, dynamic, client-friendly format. By client-friendly I mean I don't want "authors" to shove their shitty fonts, colours and page sizes (GROSS!) up my ass. I consider everyone is an "author", and everyone has the right to use and modify the data that sits in his storage however he wants.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-23 20:43

>>77
Plain-text doesn't have a side index, page numbers, references, images, browsing by bookmarks, or basically anything that makes a paper easy to consult on the computer.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-23 20:55

>>78
Side index: Useless shit; Ctrl+Home for index, then search. HTML does have it.

Pages: I'm using a screen, FUCKING FAGGOT GET OUT.

References: ¹: Anonymous, 4chan, >>78912305

Images: /sjis; use HTML for better illustrations.

Bookmarks: Search. Or HTML.

Paper: You mean toilet paper?

(I'm kidding about the last thing.)

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 0:53

>>79
Side index: Useless shit; Ctrl+Home for index, then search. HTML does have it.
HAHAHAHAHA OH WOW, YOU FUCKING FAGGOT

Why don't you go back to playing WOLFENSTEIN on your DOS 4.11 box? It's a radical new game that uses textured 3D graphics!

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 1:49

RISC

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 4:19

RISC

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 7:59

>>80
HAHAHAHAHA OH WOW, YOU FUCKING FAGGOT

Why don't you buy your stylish, slick iMac at once and enjoy the visual animations, the DRM, and being raped in the ass by Apple like you seem to love from Adobe? It'll only be $5000, and you'll only waste $4800; what's that for a PDF loving faggot?

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 8:45

>>83
Enjoy your unreadable document layout.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 9:06

>>80
lol, you owned the little fag.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 9:57

>>84
Layout? That's exactly one of the things I get the way I like because I use open, editable formats, and I don't allow "designers" and "authors" to shove their shitty style up my asshole.

>>85
PDFag

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 9:59

>>86
because I use open, editable formats
I bet you also have long, unkempt hair and never shower.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 10:26

>>87
I have short, unkempt hair, and shower twice a day.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 10:37

>>86
Yep, because opening a TXT in a browser is definitely easier to read than something that's been laid out by a professional.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 11:26

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 11:33

>>87
Actually, I have abundant but short hair, and shower every day; sometimes twice, because I hate sweat and bad smell. I don't have a UNIX beard (yet, maybe I grow one in a couple of decades). I get laid the easy way (paying), and I'm fairly good at that in the sense that I'm less profitable than other customers. I'm healthy and like to go to natural places such as forests. I have European habits and culture, which means I don't eat shit and I don't take pleasure in polluting with humungous, fugly pieces of shit resembling cars.

Yet I use GNU/Linux, support the GPL version three as the only truly free software license, write with the Forced Indentation of Code and Scheme, I've read SICP, I enjoy working and study more programming languages, techniques and paradigms when I'm back home, and have a massive hentai collection.

>>89
I don't use a web browser, but a text browser of my choice, and yes, it's easier to read than something that has been laid out by a metrosexual "designer" faggot who thinks I should look at a light bulb with that white background because lulz, it's so easy, luk it's like paper!!11, who thinks creating stupid, useless, artificial divisions called "pages" are good and I should be forced to read vertically-laid out text on a horizontally-laid out screen, and who likes stupid, unreadable, obnoxious stylish fonts.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 11:49

>>91
Well-thought PDFs are much nicer than your Courier shit. Enjoy your ASCII formulae, I'd rather see gorgeous TeX work like our anon typesetter is doing with SICP.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 12:26

>>92
Who saids I use Courier, you fucking faggot? That's about the worst font ever, and the existence of this font is one of the reasons why I want to be able to force my fonts. I use my personal modification of Lucida Console.

ASCII formulae? I can take either images, Unicode or, although still unpopular, what Sussman proposes here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2726904509434151616&ei=bYuxSIvuFJSgiAKSyqHrDA&q=sussman

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 12:29

>>91
You're the same guy who kept whining about ``documents'' and similar stuff in that one thread months ago, aren't you?

While PDFs are definitely less accessible in some ways than plain text, I can't believe you dismiss the entire art of typography and layout. Please tell me I have been trolled and that you're not really that ignorant.

Regarding your ``light bulb'' complaint, inverting the colors of your monitor is easy, and I think some PDF readers even come with a feature to do just that. I am pretty indifferent regarding pages, but there's an obvious reason why they're there.

And finally, you might want to know that we humans read shorter lines faster. This is why it is better to have vertically laid-out text even if it isn't the most optimal way to use screen space (oh the horror!).

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 12:34

>>92
Learn MathML.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 12:40

Learn MathML.
LOL

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 13:16

>>94
You're the same guy who kept whining about ``documents'' and similar stuff in that one thread months ago, aren't you?
One of those guys was me, but I recall anti-PDF posts from some other(s) who weren't me. I'm the one obsessed with my freedom to treat any data however I want.

> I can't believe you dismiss the entire art of typography and layout
To me, the best layout is plain text. It uses whichever font and colour I like, expands to fit whatever window or screen I'm using, can be resized to be as wide as I want, and can't possibly contain annoying elements. On top of that, it's the most usable, accessible, editable, portable and widely-supported format, and it's inherently DRM-less. Do you need any more advantages than that?

Regarding your ``light bulb'' complaint, inverting the colors of your monitor is easy, and I think some PDF readers even come with a feature to do just that.
Of course; if I absolutely have to, I do that. I do that to websites too; I have a handy invert lightness JavaScript bookmark. Inverting lightness has the advantages of keeping colours as they are (in case the text mentions "the words in blue..."), just with fixed lightning.

> I am pretty indifferent regarding pages, but there's an obvious reason why they're there.
Yes, luk it's like pages wowza!!! It's now easier than those black UNIX DOS screens, because it's, like, paper! That's like totally 200% easier to me!

And finally, you might want to know that we humans read shorter lines faster. This is why it is better to have vertically laid-out text even if it isn't the most optimal way to use screen space (oh the horror!).
And this is why I prefer 4:3 to 16:10/16:9 aspects, but I'm stuck with a 16:10 one because I wanted a bigger, new screen. At first stuff like world4ch looked really wide, but I've discovered you get easily used to that. I now think it's a matter of culture: once you're used to long lines, you no longer give a damn. I know I don't.

In any case, with plain text you can implement a browser that will display it as columns, and you can enforce that in a decent HTML User-Agent. That's what I like about HTML: except MSIE (which we all know it's for faggots), HTML is designed to be on your side, not on whatever faggot's, because, well, it's your computer after all, you ought to retain some rights over it even if you live in the USA.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 14:14

Everybody loves to read those long point-by-point debates, especially when they evolve into name-calling and lots of "Is too!" -- "Is not!" -- "Is too, twizot!" exchanges.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 15:37

On top of that, it's the most usable, accessible, editable, portable and widely-supported format, and it's inherently DRM-less.
>inherently DRM-less.
LOL

WE ARE BOTH HUGE RAGING FAGGOTS
(Post Truncated.)
fixed

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 17:19

>>97
I like you, you make me laugh. I bet you spend lots of time RAGEing in comments at the Linux Hater's Blog.

I also like how you use markup in your posts. Shouldn't you save the posts to a text file, read it, insert your markup and then read it again so it's just like you want it.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 20:49

>>100
OKAY YOU FUQIN ANGERED AN EXPERT PROGRAMMER
GODFUCKIGNDAMN
FIRST OF ALL, YOU DONT FUQIN KNOW WHAT A FLEXIBLE FORMAT IS
SECONDLY, THIS IS /prog/ DO NOT DEMAND USEFUL ANSWERS THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TO BE
THIRDLY TEXT IS ALL ABOUT PHILOSOPHY AND ``FREEDOM'' THAT YOU WILL NEVER COMPREHEND
AND FUQIN LASTLY, FUCK OFF WITH YOUR BULLSHITE
EVERYTHING HAS ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED IN >>77,79,97

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 20:57

>>101
I will, with my beautifully formatted and print-ready documents.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-24 21:11

>>102
print-ready
Fucking faggot, stop killing trees

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-25 9:02

>>103
You stop killing my /prog/ first.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-25 11:15

>>104
I'm not cancer, PDF is the cancer that's killing free text.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-25 11:21

ITT faggots killing my beautiful parchments.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-26 5:44

>Thread subject: RISC vs. CISC
>>79-106
WHAT THE FUCK

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-26 6:46

>>107
Welcome to /prog/. Enjoy your stay.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-26 7:03

>>108
I will, along with my job.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 20:38

<-- check em tripz

Name: Anonymous 2011-02-02 23:03

Don't change these.
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