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GUI Design

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-11 19:29

Can anyone recommend any good books/blogs/websites on the subject of GUI design and usability, I'm getting to the stage now when I'm finding it hard to present all the necessary options to the user in a clear and concise way.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-11 19:30

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Name: Anonymous 2008-08-11 19:33

Ten what?

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-11 21:24

>>1
Have you read your The Humane Interface today?

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-11 22:28

"Intuitive Interfaces" are a myth. GUIs are not usable. Long live the command line and the wealth of documentation which accompanies it.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-11 22:31

>>5
They don't call it a wealth for nothing. But srsly, get back to the crypt, relic.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-11 23:14

>"Intuitive Interfaces" are a myth. GUIs are not usable. Long live the command line and the wealth of documentation which accompanies it.
Seconded.

But srsly OP just look at other programs that have GUIs that don't suck.  Then try to re-produce those in your own software.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-11 23:45

"Intuitive Interfaces" are a myth. Do not confuse "trivial to learn" with "trivial to use".

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-12 0:40

The only intuitive interface is the nipple.  All else is learned.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-12 1:52

>>9
Non-mammals would argue otherwise.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-12 9:13

>>10
Like niggers?

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-12 11:52

note: Design must be compatible with major browsers (i.e: Internet Explorer for both Windows and MAC users, Foxfire)

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-12 12:17

>>11
The only intuitive interface is the watermelonz. All else is learned.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-12 13:32

Krug's "Don't Make Me Think" is a good starting point.

http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Make-Me-Think-Usability/dp/0321344758

Use something like jQuery UI to do the interesting bits of cross browser GUI.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-12 15:46

OP here, thanks gents.

>>5
Yeah I hear that's totally where modern computing is going.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-12 15:47

>>15
I will, along with my job.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-12 16:46

The best interface around is gvim's: commands and a bunch of menus to help you learn those commands.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-12 16:52




Name: Anonymous 2008-08-12 16:53

>>17
You speak heresy. If you limit yourself to the commands learned from the menus, you will accomplish nothing.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-12 17:06

>>19
Yes, I agree with you. There should be plenty more menus.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-12 17:11

>>17
:%s/gvim/vim/
:%s/bunch of menus/tutorial mode/

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-12 17:16

>>21
Nonsense, menus are superior.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-12 18:31

Menu bars are an abomination and must be purged.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-12 18:42

Menu bars generally have poor names for their menus and this should be improved, so they can fulfill their enormous potential for awesomeness.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-12 19:05

USEIT LOL

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-12 23:29

>>24
their enormous potential for awesomeness
Which would be? It's kind of neat that by typing Alt+key, key, you get hotkeys which are documented right in the program, but it's not like they are documented at all well. If you made it necessary to hold Alt the whole time and refrained from adding other hotkeys it would be sort of cool, but you're still stuck with a bunch of difficult to navigate lists.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-13 7:59

GUIs are for humanz

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-13 13:05

>>26

I think the Lightwave 3D interface has the perfect solution.

http://www.di-o-matic.com/products/Software/FacialStudio/screengrab/lightwave_morphmixer.jpg

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-13 14:53

>>26
You just answered your own question (well, kind of): if you pressed F1 (or something) and it showed documentation about the menu item you've selected, and made the menus easier to navigate, awesomeness would ensue.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-13 16:54

F1 is soooooo 1990's. All my programs use F12 for help, it's more original and it's at a safer place on the keyboard.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-13 22:18

>>29
That would in no way fix the problem, which is that menus are huge linear lists (hard to point to) of commands grouped in whatever way the designer thought was most logical, but which is guaranteed not to be obvious to users, including the designer at some later date.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-13 22:33

>>31
But you can navigate so quickly through menus that any decent grouping of their commands goes a long way.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 0:20

>>32
No, you can't navigate quickly through them, and there is no way to group them decently; that's my point.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 0:49

>>33
I don't think you have a point. Enjoy your nondiscoverable functionality.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 1:12

>>34
Scuse me? I'd rather enjoy my command browser which can be easily searched without lengthy manual labor.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 1:31

Tons of software allows the user to reconfigure the toolbars and menus.  That's great for somebody who's already familiar with the program and wants faster access to things he knows about.

There is no way to make a program easier for novices.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 3:52

>>36
Reconfiguration of toolbars and menus is a terrible idea. Now a person can't move from computer to computer without either setting everything up like their home computer or searching the menus like a novice, which I estimate to take no less than four seconds per menu, unless it's got submenus or collapses like the extra-horrible menus in Windows 2k—then it takes even longer.

The solution is to make it possible to execute any text as a command (say, by middle clicking it), and to provide an area at the top of the screen to type commands where Fitts's law makes them easy to click. Then, since no one can be expected to remember every command a large system supports, there must be a fully searchable command browser in which commands are tagged and fully documented rather than organized heirarchically. Commands can, of course, be executed directly from the browser. Imagine if Acme swallowed Emacs then got infected with classic Mac OS, and you'll pretty much have it.

This will make the program easier for novices and experts alike.

Name: OP 2008-08-14 5:14

>>37
Generally software that allows the user to edit the toolbars and menus also has an option for saving presets and reverting to default layout so that sort of removes this problem.
---
I think many of the challenges in interface design stem from working out a good hierarchy for the menus and toolbars, which controls should be grouped together for maximum efficiency, where would a user expect to find submenus related to various functions. The two most obvious solutions would be to either conduct a sort of 'time and motion' study of how the user interacts with the interface or as stated above straight copy the interface conventions of similar popular software.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 5:18

>>38
It removes no problem. If you configure the menus you'll not have your configuration when you use another computer, unless you reconfigure them completely, which would be a huge pain in the ass.
--
Not at all, these things are completely unrelated to good interface design, because a good interface would not include menus, submenus, toolbars, or heirarchical groups of controls. They are only relevant if you're such a poor designer that you're stuck on fumbling around the dead end we're stuck in.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 5:51

>>39
Yes true, I suppose one possible alternative would be to provide a selection of presets that are geared towards certain tasks and generalised user-profiles (Notepad replacement/Web Development/Programming in a text editor for example).
---
Yes, I admit that I don't intend to spark a paradigm shift in GUI metaphors, sorry if I gave that impression. It is however an interesting subject, are there any avenues that you have explored in terms of novel GUIs that I should look into?

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 10:25

There is no way to make a program easier for novices.
There is, you just haven't bothered looking past your Windows-based nose to see it. It's something completely unknown to any Windows application. It's called good documentation.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 16:48

>>40
No, then you're still just adding excessive configuration options rather than doing you job as a designer.
----
You should look at Plan 9's UI (which you can run on Linux now http://swtch.com/9vx/ ), especially the Acme text editor, from which I get the "every word is a command" idea and read Jef Raskin's The Humane Interface (which I just found in ebook form http://www.mediafire.com/?su4aj57dxlz (it's funny how many of the things in this book echo what I was already thinking)). Acme, and to a lesser degree the rest of Plan 9, is the most "different but awesome" UI I know of, while THI lays out Raskin's best idea for a UI, with justification for everything (some of which I don't agree with, but it's all good to think about).

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 16:50

>>42
Fuck you nigga

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 17:04

Firefox won't let me close this tab. Is it trying to tell me something?

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 17:09

>>42
Jef Raskin is a wanker and modeless UI is a shitty idea.

Name: >>45 2008-08-14 17:12

*was a wanker

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 18:16

>>45
What's your point? Was there somewhere I said that all his conclusions are good, or did I explicitly say that I don't agree with him on everything? Regardless of what you think of his zoomworld shit (and his no-files "document character" idea, oh lawd), he wrote a great book that explains the lines along which a designer must evaluate their interface if they want to be anything other than a wanker, as well as providing a "case study" to ruminate on.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 18:27

>>47
My point is he was a wanker and modeless UI is a shitty idea.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 18:47

>>48
I should have asked, "Is this relevant to the thread, or is it just your way of saying you've read the ZUI Specification?"

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 18:51

heres a good book on gui design:

dont design a gui u fucktwit; guis are evil and the only interface i want is a textual one. TUI > GUI.

ncurses interfaces considered sexual.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 19:01

>>49
Anyone that comes up with such an incredibly shitty idea and believes it's great until his very last breath can not be anything other than a wanker.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 19:07

>>51
Excellent logic there. Let's learn more from this enlightened one.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 19:12

>>52
Better than learning more from a shitty modeless UI peddler.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 21:03

>>51
The issue here is that you're too dumb to see where he's coming from. When he actually tried out these ideas in a product, they worked great. He extrapolated according to the needs of a more modern system, and I'm sure his interface would work great for certain applications. I suspect that since the amount of local data we're likely to deal with has multiplied a couple million times, not to mention everything on the Internet, this wouldn't scale. But since this UI was never completed (the people carrying the torch don't seem to be a crack team of programmers), no one can say how well it would work out. Especially not you. For all we know, it would be every bit as good as he thought.

Anyway, here's how science works: a researcher with his team develops a theory for several decades until the experiment is finished. You might not call UI design science, but that's just why I don't have any respect for your opinions. In this case, the experiment was never finished, and the results are up in the air. Modelessness in general is pretty nifty.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 21:36

>>54
Shitty modeless UI peddler peddler.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 21:48

>>54
UI design is as much a science as software engineering or phrenology.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 23:10

it's amazing how clumsy most "modern" software feels after using vi. you'd think that after 30 years people would have realized that modal text-based interfaces are vastly superior to graphical ones that make you move the mouse several feet to do what you can do without moving your fingers off the home row in vi.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 23:14

hang yourself

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-14 23:16

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Name: Anonymous 2008-08-15 0:21

>>56
I'm going to have to disagree with your assertion that GUI design is phrenology.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-15 0:41

>>62
I'm going to have to take offense at your inability to parse a simple sentence.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-15 2:18

>>63
I'm going to have to point out your inability to construct one.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-15 2:45

>>63
Noted, but next time please also record your umbrage at http://umbrage.org/. Thanks.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-15 11:11

>>64
I'm going to have to point out your poor trolling skills.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-15 13:57

>>65

I Take Umbrage

repeat after me

I Take Umbrage
I Take Umbrage
I Take Umbrage!

I Take Umbrage
wget -O /dev/null --post-data="submit= I Take Umbrage " http://umbrage.org/index.php

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-15 14:02

I took a dozen Umbrage!

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-15 18:01

>>66
When you reenter the realm of sanity, I'll be right here waiting for you.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-15 18:09


Date            Umbrage Taken
Friday    15th August    2008        21694
Thursday    14th August    2008        5222
Wednesday    13th August    2008        9605
Tuesday    12th August    2008        4575
Monday    11th August    2008        6226
Sunday    10th August    2008        6094
Saturday    9th August    2008        12850
Friday    8th August    2008        5428
Thursday    7th August    2008        6335
Wednesday    6th August    2008        4405
Tuesday    5th August    2008        109

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-15 18:10

>>69
See what I mean?

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-15 18:25

>>71
No.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-15 18:40

>>72
Hmm... I guess that explains your subpar trolling.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-15 22:38

>>73
You don't really know what trolling is, do you? Well, you're not going to get very far just repeating words you hear on the Internet.

Name: Anonymous 2008-08-15 22:43

>>74
See? There it is again.

Name: ​​​​​​​​​​ 2010-10-24 21:13

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 21:19

<-- check em dubz

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