I was woundering if it is a common theme for most "Pro" programmers to use linux. I mean a book called C;Programming I have was written on linux. So which OS is it that programmers or hackers, per say, use?
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Anonymous2005-02-19 6:00
Sorry I mean the C:Programming book was written in unix not linux
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Anonymous2005-02-19 8:20
When I was learning the basics of programming on Windows, I was focusing too much on GUIs, windows and buttons with pretty pictures inside. That led me nowhere as the "core" of my programs was empty. I use Linux now and I see another problam with Windows programs: you have to download external libraries to do advanced programs like compilers, filters (what I do at my university now) or cryptography. For example, there is no equivalent to Lex/Yacc on Windows.
The second problem is that Microsoft tries to prevent people from porting programs to other systems by wrapping struct with weird handles (like HWND or HDPROC) and that is not a good behaviour from them.
The last thing I love in Linux is source code. I'm not a Linux zealot but I can study how real programmers write their code. I'm learning compilers and I can read Python's, Ruby's or gcc's source code to see what's happening behind; I can't do this with VisualC++.
Of course when you're a "pro" I think it won't matter anymore, but if you learn, it is VERY important to see the broadest range of subjects which is impossible if you stick to Microsoft's tools.
>>1
If your book if focusing specifically on C, it doesn't matter whether you're using Windows or Linux, C is just about pointers and loops, not libraries and what you can do with them.
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Anonymous2005-02-19 23:20
I've always preferred developing in *nix, due to the large number of tools available at the command line. I will comment that some of my colleagues used to develop their code in VisualC++ in windows, with the software being compiled and debugged on a remote linux box.
We're probably in the minority though. A lot of the software people use is windows-based, and developed entirely on a windows platform.
By the way, I hate the win32 API. There's a fucking datatype for everything. In theory this is good for catching certain possible errors; in practice it's a PITA and damn ugly to read.
>>4
Actually Win32 datatypes are worse than I ever thought: it's OK when you hide an integer (int) into some kind of typedef (HANDLE) or something but the fact that they also hide POINTERS inside "things you don't know what they are" is fucking stupid and prevents you from debugging the code.
What I did in the end was giving some function a pointer to something without knowing it was already a pointer... I bet Bill Gates once tried to wrap a "FILE *" inside a "HFILE" to make people crazy.
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Anonymous2005-02-22 12:49
>>9
What's more entertaining is when you have to pass a structure FOO_POINTER which contains a single value which is a pointer to something.
Fuck Windows programmers. They all write code like they learned programming with QuickBasic.
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Anonymous2005-02-22 12:50
>>10
BTW, consider the fact that you can't (or shouldn't) pass a structure on the stack.
Huh? Flex, Bison, sed, etc... All of the "Linux" tools are also available for Windows.
The Win32 sucks big time. It was designed with the concepts of "shit", "poo", and "needlessly complicated" in mind. That said, I feel more comfortable working on Windows (for example, programming console applications) than Linux, because Windows has more software available (i.e. pretty much everything Linux has recompiled, plus what Windows has), the availability of better editors than that Vi/Emacs crap (I know I'm going to get bashed and called a bad programmer for this as if it had anything to do), and the possibility to use the keyboard for everything (try using the Keybaord to do anything in X).
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Anonymous2005-02-22 17:05 (sage)
>>12
Some of the tools are, but that wasn't always the case, and you're ignoring things like valgrind. Besides, some of us prefer the native environment over cygwin, msys, or whatever the port de jour is.
Not that I disagree with your sentiment. Windows is a far more pleasant environment when it works.
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deitarion2005-02-23 5:51
Actually, I find Linux to be more pleasant for programming.
I haven't had a need to write anything but Python lately but I enjoy writing Python far more in GEdit or KWrite than I ever did using Windows tools.
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Christy McJesus!DcbLlAZi7U2005-02-23 10:04
When I realised my final year university project was going to involve a whole lot of programming I finally got around to downloading and installing Linux because I find programming in Windows to be really unpleasant. Linux was built by hackers for hackers so it's hardly surprising it provides a much nicer development environment. Windows was originally a crude hack to make DOS somewhat usable.
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ssokolow2005-02-23 20:34
When I started to learn bash scripting I nearly cried for joy because things like grep and sed were what I had been needing to reinvent pieces of in Python for ages while I was on Windows.
In retrospect, I should have downloaded the Windows versions from the GNUWin32 project or used the Cygwin ports but then again, how could I have known what to download?
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Anonymous2005-02-23 21:50
I'll agree that Windows as it comes is worthless, but get FAR, the GNU Win32 ports, perhaps Console, UltraEdit or similar, and whatever tools you like, and you'll find it perfect.
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deitarion2005-02-24 7:54
I tried that but it only made me want Linux more. Heck, I replaced Explorer with Litestep and 2xExplorer and I hacked out who knows how many other components.
In the end, I switched to Pure Linux.
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Anonymous2005-02-26 11:44
Linux is high in calcium, and has been shown to reduce the risk of late onset faggotry.
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Anonymous2005-02-26 12:24
>>15 Windows was originally a crude hack to provide a GUI to serve as a selling point to convince semiliterate morons and bored housewives who had no business being in the same room with a computer to purchase a PC instead of a Mac.
mr0e liek see Linus Torvalds. His job is to decide whose hacks get put into the kernel, when he's not being beaten up by his black-belt wife.
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Anonymous2005-03-08 23:23
rdgdr
tggrd
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Anonymous2005-09-23 20:33
Real programmers speak brainfuck as their mother tongue
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Anonymous2005-09-23 21:27
Damn there's been a lot of dead threads resurrected recently.
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WTRoll!HfinAdTohw2005-09-23 21:30
The only professional programmer I personally know uses windows xp.
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jaja2005-09-27 1:52
There bolth used alot. Iv been using Windows just becuse most of the programs I make deal with the .net framework but when it comes to pure C/C++ I go on linux every chance I get.
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Anonymous2005-09-28 7:25
We professional programmers use whatever we're paid to use. In my case, Microsoft products.
At home, I use multiple OSes. Windows and Linux right now, and I'm saving up for another machine that I hope to put Solaris 10 on. :)
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Anonymous2005-09-28 8:15
>>39
Exactly. Currently, I'm using Linux at work (save for when I have to edit images or try how things look from Microsoft's shitty browser). At home, I'm using Windows as my workstation OS and it's on 90%-100% of the time, but right now I'm also using Linux for a project.
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Anonymous2005-10-05 19:14
programmers that code for science and math stuff usually use linux.
hackers usually use freebsd, unless they are visual basic script kiddies, in which case they'd use windows.
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Anonymous2007-08-04 14:16 ID:NLNxS7Fc
poop
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Anonymous2007-08-04 20:15 ID:3wcOzXD3
Linux is not a desktop kernel/OS. Forget the slow shit that is X; it's worse than that. Try doing something CPU intensive and watch your music stutter and sometimes stop playing all together. Windows on the other hand, doing CPU intensive things, the GUI still works and the sound output never stops. Think about it. I use Windows because it is simply better at being a desktop OS. And I don't use Mac because I haven't bought one yet (this is the only reason).
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Anonymous2007-08-04 20:22 ID:rvlnGQG5
Visual Studio is a really good development environment. Maybe not perfect, but for the money (free) it's pretty awesome. It only makes sense that when you use it, you use its native environment.
Linux is used by programmers who want to program Linux (perhaps in a fruitless attempt to get a joystick or other standard peripheral to work).
>>43
Odd you should say that; shit quality audio playback is why I switched to Linux. Couldn't for my life listen to an hour of music without it stuttering at some point.
I can keep Firefox, XChat, a couple xterms, media player (also streaming out to the internet, being decoded from MP3 and re-encoded at a lower bitrate in the process), and maybe even zsnes or something open, and never have my audio break up.
>>39 >>40 I claim to use some sort of GNU/Linux on an anonymous Image Board to appear to be incredibly knowledgeable but in truth I only run Windows to download porn and play WoW.
Fixed?
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Anonymous2008-03-14 14:01
>I hate the win32 API. There's a fucking datatype for everything.
That reminds me again of what I do when I have to write Win32 code -- use ints and char * for everything. It's not as if those stupid types were for portability, since I'm writing for Win32 anyway. Just doing away with all that useless bloat makes things a lot cleaner (HWND, HANDLE, HFILE, whatever. They're all int as far as I'm concerned.)
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Anonymous2008-03-14 14:36
>>39
We professional programmers use whatever we want. The correct term for your profession is ``software whore''.
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Anonymous2008-03-14 14:37
ITT: /prog/ meets itself from two years ago.
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Anonymous2008-03-14 15:07
``There are a few idiosyncrasies in the module import system, but as long as you stay
away from the corner cases, you should be fine. Suppose, as before, you wrote a
module called “Cards” which you saved in the file “Cards.hs”. You are now writing
your poker module and you want to import all the definitions from the “Cards” module.
To do this, all you need to do is write: module Poker
where
import Cards''
Hmm...
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Anonymous2008-03-14 15:14
Question: how is Haskell [Char] different from String?
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Anonymous2008-03-14 16:09
yacc has a native win32 build or you can use cygwin. At this point it doesn't really matter, you can run linux and windows concurrently on a system and test against both as long as you aren't trying to write ogl/d3d windows apps.
virtualbox/vmware/xen/kvm so on
Unless you're working on webapps, you're most likely going to deal with windows at some point, so might as well learn the win32 API (it isn't that difficult and does have some nice features). Far more money in it.
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Anonymous2008-03-14 16:29
posix systems tend to have much better tools and documentation included in the base system for developers to use while on microsoft it's harder to find
personally i'm a professional programmer who prefer to use bsd as a platform but i can't deny the money in knowing how to write for windows, in my country it's your main source of income, most programmer don't even bother learning about unix or unix-like system if they simply want to make money and a career in this business, just learn c++, c# or java and start hacking away on graphically bloated programs for idiot clients
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Anonymous2008-03-14 16:36
>>61
MSDN has information on almost anything you'd want to do on win32, including remote process code injection and overriding COM interfaces.
posix is pretty bare compared to win32, thats why the majority of opensource software have so many dependencies to other libraries.
But yes .NET or Java are the best choice if you're just interested in the money
I use Windows (server 2003/8) and whenever something needs linux functionality or if I just want to compile something in a unix environment I'll use cygwin or the private shell server I pay $20/mo for.
>>75 EXPERT PROGRAMMERS are beyond currency.
In fact, you will never fully comprehend what EXPERT PROGRAMMING is about.
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Anonymous2008-03-16 11:48
>>75 10 hours downloading installing configuring linux/winblows/whatever
Yes, now you see what price we have to pay for a real OS. If only not for the ten hours of downloading installing configuring every second day, it'd be awesome, eh?
Ah, yes, 2005. The year of meaningful discussions among reasonable people. The last year /prog/ was about programming instead of long threads of single line bullshit.
you're a fucking cancer, please kill yourself or at least lurk moar before posting again.
while you may get some "LULZ" from a post like this (although only from faggots like yourself), you should know that in the process you're driving us [b][spoiler]quality posters[spoiler][/b] away.