I was woundering if it is a common theme for most "Pro" programmers to use linux. I mean a book called C;Programming I have was written on linux. So which OS is it that programmers or hackers, per say, use?
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Anonymous2005-02-19 6:00
Sorry I mean the C:Programming book was written in unix not linux
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Anonymous2005-02-19 8:20
When I was learning the basics of programming on Windows, I was focusing too much on GUIs, windows and buttons with pretty pictures inside. That led me nowhere as the "core" of my programs was empty. I use Linux now and I see another problam with Windows programs: you have to download external libraries to do advanced programs like compilers, filters (what I do at my university now) or cryptography. For example, there is no equivalent to Lex/Yacc on Windows.
The second problem is that Microsoft tries to prevent people from porting programs to other systems by wrapping struct with weird handles (like HWND or HDPROC) and that is not a good behaviour from them.
The last thing I love in Linux is source code. I'm not a Linux zealot but I can study how real programmers write their code. I'm learning compilers and I can read Python's, Ruby's or gcc's source code to see what's happening behind; I can't do this with VisualC++.
Of course when you're a "pro" I think it won't matter anymore, but if you learn, it is VERY important to see the broadest range of subjects which is impossible if you stick to Microsoft's tools.
>>1
If your book if focusing specifically on C, it doesn't matter whether you're using Windows or Linux, C is just about pointers and loops, not libraries and what you can do with them.
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Anonymous2005-02-19 23:20
I've always preferred developing in *nix, due to the large number of tools available at the command line. I will comment that some of my colleagues used to develop their code in VisualC++ in windows, with the software being compiled and debugged on a remote linux box.
We're probably in the minority though. A lot of the software people use is windows-based, and developed entirely on a windows platform.
By the way, I hate the win32 API. There's a fucking datatype for everything. In theory this is good for catching certain possible errors; in practice it's a PITA and damn ugly to read.
>>4
Actually Win32 datatypes are worse than I ever thought: it's OK when you hide an integer (int) into some kind of typedef (HANDLE) or something but the fact that they also hide POINTERS inside "things you don't know what they are" is fucking stupid and prevents you from debugging the code.
What I did in the end was giving some function a pointer to something without knowing it was already a pointer... I bet Bill Gates once tried to wrap a "FILE *" inside a "HFILE" to make people crazy.
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Anonymous2005-02-22 12:49
>>9
What's more entertaining is when you have to pass a structure FOO_POINTER which contains a single value which is a pointer to something.
Fuck Windows programmers. They all write code like they learned programming with QuickBasic.
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Anonymous2005-02-22 12:50
>>10
BTW, consider the fact that you can't (or shouldn't) pass a structure on the stack.
Huh? Flex, Bison, sed, etc... All of the "Linux" tools are also available for Windows.
The Win32 sucks big time. It was designed with the concepts of "shit", "poo", and "needlessly complicated" in mind. That said, I feel more comfortable working on Windows (for example, programming console applications) than Linux, because Windows has more software available (i.e. pretty much everything Linux has recompiled, plus what Windows has), the availability of better editors than that Vi/Emacs crap (I know I'm going to get bashed and called a bad programmer for this as if it had anything to do), and the possibility to use the keyboard for everything (try using the Keybaord to do anything in X).
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Anonymous2005-02-22 17:05 (sage)
>>12
Some of the tools are, but that wasn't always the case, and you're ignoring things like valgrind. Besides, some of us prefer the native environment over cygwin, msys, or whatever the port de jour is.
Not that I disagree with your sentiment. Windows is a far more pleasant environment when it works.
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deitarion2005-02-23 5:51
Actually, I find Linux to be more pleasant for programming.
I haven't had a need to write anything but Python lately but I enjoy writing Python far more in GEdit or KWrite than I ever did using Windows tools.
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Christy McJesus!DcbLlAZi7U2005-02-23 10:04
When I realised my final year university project was going to involve a whole lot of programming I finally got around to downloading and installing Linux because I find programming in Windows to be really unpleasant. Linux was built by hackers for hackers so it's hardly surprising it provides a much nicer development environment. Windows was originally a crude hack to make DOS somewhat usable.
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ssokolow2005-02-23 20:34
When I started to learn bash scripting I nearly cried for joy because things like grep and sed were what I had been needing to reinvent pieces of in Python for ages while I was on Windows.
In retrospect, I should have downloaded the Windows versions from the GNUWin32 project or used the Cygwin ports but then again, how could I have known what to download?
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Anonymous2005-02-23 21:50
I'll agree that Windows as it comes is worthless, but get FAR, the GNU Win32 ports, perhaps Console, UltraEdit or similar, and whatever tools you like, and you'll find it perfect.
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deitarion2005-02-24 7:54
I tried that but it only made me want Linux more. Heck, I replaced Explorer with Litestep and 2xExplorer and I hacked out who knows how many other components.
In the end, I switched to Pure Linux.
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Anonymous2005-02-26 11:44
Linux is high in calcium, and has been shown to reduce the risk of late onset faggotry.
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Anonymous2005-02-26 12:24
>>15 Windows was originally a crude hack to provide a GUI to serve as a selling point to convince semiliterate morons and bored housewives who had no business being in the same room with a computer to purchase a PC instead of a Mac.
mr0e liek see Linus Torvalds. His job is to decide whose hacks get put into the kernel, when he's not being beaten up by his black-belt wife.
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Anonymous2005-03-08 23:23
rdgdr
tggrd
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Anonymous2005-09-23 20:33
Real programmers speak brainfuck as their mother tongue
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Anonymous2005-09-23 21:27
Damn there's been a lot of dead threads resurrected recently.
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WTRoll!HfinAdTohw2005-09-23 21:30
The only professional programmer I personally know uses windows xp.
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jaja2005-09-27 1:52
There bolth used alot. Iv been using Windows just becuse most of the programs I make deal with the .net framework but when it comes to pure C/C++ I go on linux every chance I get.
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Anonymous2005-09-28 7:25
We professional programmers use whatever we're paid to use. In my case, Microsoft products.
At home, I use multiple OSes. Windows and Linux right now, and I'm saving up for another machine that I hope to put Solaris 10 on. :)
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Anonymous2005-09-28 8:15
>>39
Exactly. Currently, I'm using Linux at work (save for when I have to edit images or try how things look from Microsoft's shitty browser). At home, I'm using Windows as my workstation OS and it's on 90%-100% of the time, but right now I'm also using Linux for a project.