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Socialist America.

Name: Bashika 2013-02-22 22:08

How would the U.S. become socialist?

Name: Anonymous 2013-02-23 5:03

By the Government raising tax and increasing spending.

Name: Anonymous 2013-02-23 9:17

History has not been kind to socialism, it is a frequently misunderstood politicized term and has been abused by various extremist groups and tyrannical regimes for propaganda. The regimes did not represent socialism, the democratic people's republic of korea is not democratic, many christians fail to abide by christ's message to give all you wealth to the poor in order to be perfect, however it does call into question why so many regimes chose socialism for their propaganda during the cold war.

Turning socialism into a viable political philosophy that can win an election and prevent itself from being abused excessively is the first step, and the most difficult because it either requires that we reject the socialist brand name and build up an entirely new brand or we will have to convince the extremists that they are the problem.

Name: Anonymous 2013-02-23 23:02

Name: Anonymous 2013-02-27 13:34

>>3
Socialism in the sense that most Americans think of is pretty much dead except for the few countries that you mention. In the modern day, self-styled socialists are generally social democrats: typical European and Latin American moderate left-wingers. The hard socialists/communists in the West get laughed at, and rightly so.

Name: AAron 2013-02-28 17:45

The fact of the matter is that socialism gives no reason for society to improve so it is regardlles whether it has been "misunderstood"

Name: Anonymous 2013-03-01 6:35

>>5
I had all socialists in mind. Figures like Evo Morales and Chavez are good examples of corrupt politicians who use socialist ideology as propaganda, the only significant difference between them and social conservatives is how effectively they milk the concessions they have to give the people when grass roots movements succeed. The ideology itself is largely ineffective in changing people's behavior, the massive hypocrisy doesn't seem to bother their supporters.

You cannot make socialism a success unless you understand the mechanics of politics.

Name: Anonymous 2013-03-05 15:02

You're a dumbass OP. The US is already becoming socialist. But just for the sake of answering the question:

1. Nationalized Health Care

2. Nationalized Education

3. National Welfare System

The US is currently 3 for 3 on that list. WAKE UP.

Name: Anonymous 2013-03-05 17:30

>>8
Uh, not really. Other countries spend more of their GDP on those systems and were doing it many, many years before the US.

Name: Anonymous 2013-03-05 19:45

>>8
Socialism is collectivized ownership over the means of production. The US has never made any meaningful attempt at nationalizing major industries for example and so it is splitting hairs to call it socialist.

Name: Anonymous 2013-03-06 9:36

By keeping on it's present trajectory...

Name: Anonymous 2013-03-06 15:01

The socialist healthcare system in the UK (if you define it as such) is doing pretty well, being one of the most efficient in the world per £ spent. Some areas of life shouldn't be left to market forces.

Name: Anonymous 2013-03-06 18:04

>>12
Oh fuck no. People are scared to go into hospital because of poor hygiene practices by staff. The NHS is not working well when it's not uncommon to contract a super bug having gone in with something much less serious.

Name: detu !!0eVvgjNmFGRRO+F 2013-03-09 21:14

>>10
OSHA & EPA.
The government hands power to organizations who create regulations (which are created by big players in the industry) and create laws that end up effecting multiple industries, namely construction.
By creating regulations such as "for every one hundred feet of extension cord you need a breaker unit" and by forcing safety gear, they make every single company in the united states purchase this equipment, made by businesses that are either owned by OSHA/EPA or that pay off the two.
A good example is the gas can rule. OSHA makes it so you can't store it in the back of your truck while using your generator. Nor can you risk sporting it on the passenger seat. So where do you put it?
On the ground would be the first guess. However this is also illegal due to the EPA. So where do you put it?
In a special inflatable container made for thesegas cans and other fuel containers.

Name: Anonymous 2013-03-10 8:57

>>14
These are safety regulations that have possibly been corrupted, this could be partially due to a culture that places excessive faith in government agencies like the EPA as "the will of the people", voter apathy and ignorance probably also play a role. Human nature as well, people don't necessarily need to be malicious, imagine if you spent a year designing a product and you had to pitch it to a skeptical politician for a government contract, you may have decided to add some features and forgot about the added costs, you might promote it as a necessity even though another company might have done a better job, you might claim "in order to work with other equipment it needs this power transfer unit that we offer a discount on if you buy" or "it is unsafe unless you purchase this as well" and sleep soundly at night never once thinking you're a communist.

Name: Anonymous 2013-03-11 17:02

My favorite public assistance paradox is the one for the poor:
It's illegal to panhandle but if it's a new meme,
but you can write it on cardboard for money.
It's illegal to sleep outside;
Those who are legitimately poor are not allowed access to overcrowded shelters
but they end up sleeping outside.
It's illegal to pirate music; but
when there are no real nearby stores to purchase said product, it is pirated online.

Once again the rich are fucking the poor without lube and they are still bitching that they have to pay child-supoort for the offspring that spills out of the rape victims that the rich were unwilling to pay to abort.

Name: detu !!0eVvgjNmFGRRO+F 2013-03-14 23:10

>>16
Panhandling is illegal true, cardboard signs are also considered panhandling, but since it doesn't directly disturb someone like someone following and asking you it is overlooked.
It is illegal to sleep outside, but so is crowding a building pat its maximum occupancy. Of there's 70 homeless people, but only a sufficient room and food for 50, the remaining twenty are rejected so a sufficient amount is given to the 50 simply because there would be no means to support 70.
It is illegal to pirate music, but when no music stores are around there ate plenty of legal ways to buy onlinelike rhapsody iTunes and Amazon. Just because people are to cheap to buy it, so there is no excuse to pirate.

And refusing to pay for something that violates you're beliefs and morals is wrong?
Cool. Now pay me money so i can get surgery on my lungs.
No? You fucking inconsiderate cheap bastard.
Just cause you make more money your better than me?
Fuck you you fucking hypocrite. Give me my fucking money I've earned it just as much as you even if i haven't applied for a job in five years.

Name: Anonymous 2013-03-15 19:21

>>16
All of those problems are government laws, has nothing to do with rich people.

Name: Anonymous 2013-03-18 15:37

>>7
I had all socialists in mind. Figures like Evo Morales and Chavez are good examples of corrupt politicians who use socialist ideology as propaganda, the only significant difference between them and social conservatives is how effectively they milk the concessions they have to give the people when grass roots movements succeed.
What exactly are you trying to say here? Because this jumbled mess of a paragraph is difficult for me to parse. Are you suggesting that the lives of people didn't improve at all? I find that a bit hard to believe.
The ideology itself is largely ineffective in changing people's behavior
Actually, in the case of Morales and Chávez, it wasn't designed to "change behavior", rather to improve their lot in working conditions and increased benefits...all mostly labor rights issues. Unlike the Soviets and hardline revolutionary socialists before them which wanted to completely rearrange society to their ideology, Chávez and Morales both respect the democratic order of their countries (as they were democratically elected).
You cannot make socialism a success unless you understand the mechanics of politics.
Wouldn't that go for any ideology?

Name: Anonymous 2013-03-19 10:11

>>19
Most improvements are due to grass roots action, not ideology, personality cults or the centralized state.

Chavez didn't improve working conditions or increase benefits, the Venezuelan people did, they would have still put pressure on the government to make these concessions without him. Chavez was just one of many politicians who wanted to get into power by making these promises, and power corrupts, to beat the competition he needed to do favors to get money for political campaigning, break promises, make only token efforts to cut costs, cater to extremists for their votes, use logical fallacies and use emotional appeals.

What about ideology? I can imagine socialism had some influence in promoting grass roots action, however it was definitely not Chavez's brand of socialism, neither was its influence significant compared to practical motivations.

Remove Chavez or socialism from the equation and not much happens.

Wouldn't that go for any ideology?
Yes?

Name: Anonymous 2013-03-20 18:48

>>20
Most improvements are due to grass roots action, not ideology, personality cults or the centralized state.
Grass roots movements follow a certain ideology when attempting to attain certain goals, it's an inevitability of some sort. The thing is it depends on how "strict" it's followed or if it allows for revision down the line. I think most that are reasonable aren't followed strictly and allow for revision and critique within its own ranks.
Chavez didn't improve working conditions or increase benefits, the Venezuelan people did, they would have still put pressure on the government to make these concessions without him.
Chávez was a natural outgrowth of this. You had people in Venezuela in the trade/labor unions doing collective bargaining/striking/fighting for their working rights, just like any other place. Just like you had people in the West who were involved in trade/labor union, left-wing politics, ect. fighting for the 8 hour work day and the five day work week. These things weren't just given to the workers of course.

The party of Chávez and himself went slightly a little further though, and were *almost* completely against neoliberal economics and the Washington Consensus, the IMF, World Bank, most free trade and free trade international organizations, ect. Sitting on top of very rich oil also drew quite some attention as well. If Bush, et al. was ever serious about invading Venezuela the unpopularity of the Iraq War put a stop to that.
Chavez was just one of many politicians who wanted to get into power by making these promises, and power corrupts, to beat the competition he needed to do favors to get money for political campaigning, break promises, make only token efforts to cut costs, cater to extremists for their votes, use logical fallacies and use emotional appeals.
I will concede that the last few years near the end of his life his government started to become a bit corrupt, but I expect this of any government that's in power for too long. There should have been term limits put in place in the 1999 Constitution at least, perhaps there will be a future referendum put forth on that very issue.
What about ideology? I can imagine socialism had some influence in promoting grass roots action, however it was definitely not Chavez's brand of socialism, neither was its influence significant compared to practical motivations.
Left-wing politics are an outgrowth of grass roots action, and Chávez was no different in this case. Chávez and his party (PSUV) were Democratic Socialist in nature, pretty close to what George Orwell was advocating the last 20-30 years before he died, and in the time since the creation of NATO, Democratic Socialist parties (especially in Europe) are considered somewhat radical (not Soviet/Stalin/Trotskyist type radical of course) because of the phenomenon of the Overton Window (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window).
Remove Chavez or socialism from the equation and not much happens.
Depends wholly on what you replace it with. If you replace it with a typical Christian Democrat right-wing government, you're right probably not *too* much would happen, but that depends on how much they're willing to go against public opinion and start slashing and cutting things that the people fought hard to attain.

Name: Anonymous 2013-03-20 18:59

>>12
The socialist healthcare system in the UK (if you define it as such)
Its founder certainly described it as such. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCAyUxY0Cm0
being one of the most efficient in the world per £ spent. Some areas of life shouldn't be left to market forces.
Unfortunately, Cameron, Andrew Lansley and the Tories seem intent on destroying it.

Name: :( 2013-03-20 19:44

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Name: :( 2013-03-20 19:44

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Name: :( 2013-03-20 19:44

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Name: :( 2013-03-20 19:44

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Name: sage 2013-04-11 14:11

>>23-26
tl;dr

Name: Anonymous 2013-05-17 11:34

            /~""''' ‐- ...,,_
            / Revolution /
           ./         ./
          /   ☭         /
          /~""''' ‐- ...,,__/
         /
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     ∧,,∧    ハ_ハ    彡⌒ミ   ζζζ
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.   └ ー-J   └ ー-J  └ ー-J   └ ー-J

Name: Anonymous 2013-05-17 14:36

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-27 4:44

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-28 9:53

>>30
spam

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-28 11:54

>>26 & >>31

troll

Don't change these.
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