So what did actualy happen to greece

I just watched this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37Dvt2EqXF4&feature=player_embedded

I think it illustrated very well what happened to greece.

Greeks are being portrayed as lazy but official statistics show that greeks on average work more than the rest of the europeans (greece 2120, germany 1430, france 1544, uk 1653, norway 1422, sweden 1625, US 1792. - source: OECD.ORG).

At the moment there are three scandals being investigated in greece considering german companies: siemens, MAN and HDW-Ferostaal, all of which have politians involved that have been bribed.

Personaly I believe that greece has been targeted by the economic hitmen and we are being robbed blind. But further than this, this is regarding the stability of the eurozone and all I can see in the news is that the greeks are being blamed for this.

Anyway, what do you think has happened? Do you agree that we are being set up?

Greece got raped by Slavs and Turks, who gave them the nigger gene, thus resulting in a country with no future.

>>2

Interesting because even in ancient sources the Greeks and Romans are referred to as "Mediterranean". One of the primary reasons they considered Germanic people to be barbarians was the light skin and blond hair. You can try to ret-con history, but it was olive skinned people responsible for all of those advancements.

Interesting because even in ancient sources the Greeks and Romans are referred to as "Mediterranean".
I guess that kind of makes sense because, well, the Greeks and Romans have lived near the Mediterranean during the entirety of their recorded histories.
One of the primary reasons they considered Germanic people to be barbarians was the light skin and blond hair.
I thought barbarian simply meant "foreigner" in Greek. But I'm sure they considered Celts/Germans/Slavs etc less civilized, but not because of their skin or hair color (wealthy Roman women dyed their hair blonde), but because they lived in less civilized societies, lacking literature, architecture, advanced government, etc.
You can try to ret-con history, but it was olive skinned people responsible for all of those advancements.
I never said anything about skin colour. But a lot of civilizations started declining when they were conquered by Turkic/Mongoloid hordes and never recovered....

Greeks don't practice the religion of Islam. They don't speak Arabic or Turkish. They don't use the Arabic script.

Communist government getting loans it can't pay back. Also there's a difference between working hard and working smart.

>>1
it's possible something like this happened, but then again... very hard to prove. and even if you found some kind of proof, what are you going to do? tell everyone? why? and do you think people will take the time to listen to you (with an open mind)? even if they do... what do you hope those people will do when you tell them "the truth"? what would you do if someone told you "the truth"?

personally, i think it's all gone to shit at this point. i'm saying: yeah people are fucking people over left and right they're fucking anyone even themselves they don't give a fuck and now the entire fucking game is falling down. i say you either step out of their boat or go down with them.

>>7
How do you step out of their boat?

>>8
join/create your own boat. but you can't do this on your own, you wouldn't even want to do this on your own, so i think the first step is for us to step away from ego-centric thinking. wake up from the crippling individualism that plagues our society and find some like minded people.

you can get some information/ inspiration/ motivation from the internet, but in the end we're not going to be giving eachother food/shelter. you need to be in physical contact with like minded people when the shtf... form a group, a tribe, whatever you want to call it. a boat. change the minds of your closest friends or look around for new friends.

i ended up quitting my job making some hobo travels visiting some farming communities. it's hard but it's worth it, now i'm back home cause i want to take my gf and baby with me so i gotta sort some shit out first. while i'm here, i'm making it my business to educate the people around me about things the media doesn't mention, we're squatting a huge building turning it into a community information center etc... possibilities are endless.

>>9
Nice. Ny bf and kid and I are looking for more like minded folks... wish I was meeting you at the payground instead of fucking 4chan...

>>9
crippling individualism
The problem is we are individuals. Collectivization doesn't exist, a "collective" is just a small group of individuals organized into a bureaucracy who coerce a larger group of individuals into relinquishing resources to them against reason and ethics. Problems in the world are as much caused by individualism as they are caused by the laws of physics.

>>10
yeah wouldve been cool. there's thousands of us though and we're pretty easy to recognize so i'm sure you don't need to worry. protip: make yourself recognizable and you'll get approached by people looking for what they think you represent. i was against "counter culture uniforms" until i saw their efficacy.

>>11
i'm not sure i understand what you're saying....
are you saying collectives = coercive bureaucracies?

if so, please go and visit some farming communities before spouting bullshite like that. ive been to MANY places where ALL WORK was COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY. that means: if you didn't want to work, you can sit on your ass allllll day and smoke joints. still everything worked perfectly and everyone got fed. of course we couldn't afford to buy everyone an ipod, but people were generally okay with that.

of course i'm not denying the laws of physics, we have to work to get food because that's how the world works (unless you're temporarily living in the welfare fantasy bubble). i'm just saying it's easier if you have some people around you. they can help you, or even take over some of your work if you're not feeling up for it (or help them when you have some extra energy, it can be really fun to help someone).

>>11
Feel free to leave modern civilised communities whenever you want. nobody's holding you. Go grow cucumbers or something.

>>12
>>13
Just saying we're individuals doesn't mean I want to push it to it's logical conclusion, it's just a fact that needs to be accepted, it means collectives are just another bureaucracy subject to the same corruptive forces as all the others which is something you should not be ignorant about or you will be less effective at managing and disciplining this bureaucracy of yours should it ever exist. If I were vehemently opposed to your ideas I wouldn't be giving you such valuable critical assessment, I have no problem with cooperation for mutual gain, I'm just not going to pretend that there won't be inefficiency or corruption because in engineering and pretty much every profession and science it is know that every action has both positive and negative properties. You can add propoganda value to something by saying "oh, a bunch of hippies smoked pot and tilled soil for a few hours then drove back to their trendy apartmens in north beach come morning, this proves I have found the perfect government", but you're just doing what every other politicians has done for decades, that shit's not going to fly if you intend to really change things.

>>2 , >>3
Are you tripping love? (samefag)

>>6
It's actually the loans from the right wing ND party that brought greece to this point.

>>7 There is always a point discussing these thing I think. I'm not expecting anything to change, but understanding reality is still valuable. Understanding reality is the first step if you're hoping to change it.

>>11 , >>14
Am I sensing some fanaticism there? What you're saying is totally irrelevant with this thread and also completely unsubstantiated. Plus you're patronizing up by supposing things none of us have said. I wonder, why?

>>15
re: >>11, >>14
It's his schtick: everything unconvetional = communist plot

>>15
>>16
crippling individualism
But it is related to the discussion, I noticed this error and disproved you, that's all. Collectivization doesn't exist, it's meaningless, all that exists is a bureaucracy, a collective or worker's council or whatever is just another bureaucracy.

>>17
That's a totaly different debate. Look up MST, the zapatistas etc. You'll see how wrong you are about collectivisation.

>>17
psst, you can't prove and absolute negative.
Therefore to say something doesn't exist is a useless argument. Tell me why you do or don't like it, but don't tell me it doesn't exist.

Individualism is the moral stance, political philosophy, ideology, or social outlook that stresses "the moral worth of the individual".[1] Individualists promote the exercise of one's goals and desires and so independence and self-reliance[2] while opposing most external interference upon one's own interests, whether by society, family or any other group or institution.[2]

It is this stance that I called crippling.

Collectivism is any philosophic, political, economic or social outlook that emphasizes the interdependence of every human in some collective group and the priority of group goals over individual goals. Collectivists usually focus on community, society or nation. Collectivism has been widely used to refer to a number of different political and economic philosophies, ranging from communalism and democracy to totalitarian nationalism.