why we are not free

The real damage is done by those millions who want to 'survive.' The honest men who just want to be left in peace. Those who don’t want their little lives disturbed by anything bigger than themselves. Those with no sides and no causes. Those who won’t take measure of their own strength, for fear of antagonizing their own weakness. Those who don’t like to make waves—or enemies. Those for whom freedom, honour, truth, and principles are only literature. Those who live small, mate small, die small. It’s the reductionist approach to life: if you keep it small, you’ll keep it under control. If you don’t make any noise, the bogeyman won’t find you. But it’s all an illusion, because they die too, those people who roll up their spirits into tiny little balls so as to be safe. Safe?! From what? Life is always on the edge of death; narrow streets lead to the same place as wide avenues, and a little candle burns itself out just like a flaming torch does. I choose my own way to burn.

Arson is a crime, you know?

Free? Free from what?

People today drop context like used trash. Politically freedom used to mean free from the physical coercion of fellow men be it government or neighbor to live one's life (the inalienable rights).

Now apparently freedom means "free from hunger" or "free from disease" or "free from wants" or whatever fantasies ignorant politician can draft up so they can net in more votes from equally ignorant voters. And in the course of attempting to achieve those impossible fantasies, destroys the real freedom and liberty.

So no, the main reason why we are not free enough politically isn't because there is not enough hot heads and enthusiasts, it's because most of those we do have aren't educated enough which then gets caught in erroneous political slogans and is fighting to make things worse.

Right, 3, that is the stupidity of "positive" freedom: freedom = free stuff, freedom = wish-fulfillment, freedom = actually having whatever I want, freedom = metaphysical freedom, freedom = freedom from the consequences of my choices, etc.

>>1
Isn't wanting to be "left in peace" a cause in itself? What if people who want to be left in peace all pooled their resources to stop tyrants running amok? Oh wait, that's already happening.

Freedom is just some arbitrary word. I believe in doing what works, not what brings satisfaction or pleasure. If "freedom" needs to compromised, so what.

>>6

Freedom without context is an arbitrary word, hell any word without context is.

Freedom with context, such as political freedom, is something that can't be compromised if you want to live in a society suitable for humans.

>>7

So all the societies before the "Enlightenment" were not suitable for humans?

>>8

I didn't know there were any actual free nation founded during the "Enlightenment".

Anyhow, suitability is dependent on standard. For example some people found it perfectly suitable to live in a trash filled apartment, while others with higher standard will deem such place unsuitable for any self respecting human begin.

Same applies to society. I personally think it's unsuitable for any self respecting human begin to live in a society where their life and property isn't recognized as their own and can be claimed by others with force at anytime on any whim, Medieval ages, Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany..etc. to name a few.

So yeah, there might be some people who think it's good enough to live as a slave in a dictatorship or what not as long as they get enough handout. Then there are other people who have higher standards.

>>9

You sound like a troll trying to protect his jew gold!
just syain thats what it sounds like to me
I think the rich should be taxed till they are pennyless and put into forced labor camps to know whats it like to have no future be cause your greedy and think your worth so much more then every one else put in these long hours blah blah blah republicunts talking points I HOPE YOU DIE IN A FIRE!

You conveniently forget a lot of history, don't you?

>>11
There's no flow of logic when you start putting words into his mouth.  Start over; I'm interested in hearing it with clarity.

>>1

I agree.  Too many people want an easy life.  They'll settle for the life of domesticated dog.  And they are no more than pets -- dogs, not wolves, and for many of them they'll sell themselves to paris hilton allow themselves to be dyed pink just to get some canned dog food.  it's why a think the human race will die out -- once the environment doesn't support all the domesticated humans they'll die off.  And that's about 90% of the human race.  90% of the human race will sell their souls to get more worthless beads and trinkets, and creature comforts.

We need to fix this, rewild ourselves and get the fuck away from the toxic demosticated dogs, form our own wolfpacks and live free.

>>12
Well it was wrote more of a rant than logic When I reread his commment I am not sure what >>9 was getting at It just sounded like something a glenn beck worshiper would be spouting

"putting words into his mouth"?? so you want another rant about what?? jew gold, the rich???

kill the rich!!

ignorance and pacifism are the two main reasons that we live the way we do, regardless of where you hail from. Ignorant mother fuckers do as they please, irrespective of consequence, and the pacifists either don't question, or don't act in the face of a dilemma. i'd like to say i dont fall into either of these persona's but i've become passive over the last few years, and justifiably so, since an individual acting out is usually snatched up hastily. in an age where things are as disproportional as they are now, we haven't much to look forward to.

kill the rich!!!!!!!!!

>>17
>>15
why kill them I think forced labor makes much more sense they spent there lives hurting others so they would not have to work if there is juctice, they would work hard labor until they are a very very old age
In all fairness all the polititions croprate fat cats, stock and tade workers and execs that have allowed, helped, or profited from the fraud and theft from americans

Take this for instance Rush Limpballs I think made 100 mil this year I would like to hear one the republicunts thats make 40,000 average wage for americunts ooopf;klmadf sorry bumped head on key board.

I not saying rush is not good enough to deserve a little more for doing a good job but 2500 times that of the normal wage I dont think hes that great. That guys a fat pig I bet that fatapotamus eats out of a fucking troph he owns a resterrant that sells shish kebabs made of puppies and babbies

sirius bizzness here can anyone justfy why fatballs makes that much more cause there is none. These pigs sit in there backrooms and make deals that they should be ashamed of and say theres nothing wrong a "LITTLE" incentive to make people work harder, but 2500 times thats not "LITTLE" thats GREED in its pure form.

This is not limited to a few of the rich I have worked for plenty of rich guys some hold as many as 100 classic hot rods stashed out in poll barns that they never drive they dont buy cheap shit either I mean astin martins, excalibars the shit most people never see they got locked up n a shed I can understand having nice things and I would like to have more then one even having one for each day of the week seems excessive and a pain to keep up with maintance this is just a drop in the bucket in excessive life styles that they live and its a drain from our economy

What on earth is in there heads that they deserve it really I would like some rich cunt to get in here in tell me why he deserves 100 mil a year a fucking year!!!!!!!!

I am not against capitalism but the people that get rich in this system where on the honor system to make sure their was no poor unless by there own choice. The rich and powerful have been cheating an lying to us they have not lived up to there part of the bargan in the American experiment there for they can not handle the wealth. They where intrusted with. They have sold us out to other countrys. Made laws to protect there ill gotten gains. I think its time to take it all back and put them theives in jail ITS NOT THERE MONEY

rant rant rant

>>19
Actually, it's about 38m annually plus whatever else he gets paid for giving speeches.  The actual sum was ranged under 50m per year but over 40m before anything else is factored in.  Based on the length of time he's been speaking, his net worth is probably about one billion USD.

I suppose this is just pulling hairs as far as your ill-grammar point is concerned.

thank you

>>20
So your point is He makes less if we subtract the speeches?

So add the speeches and what does he make? 100 mil a year?

Thanks for the info do you have a sauce On that fat slob being worth one bil?? MOses smell the rosses What do you think of that do you mean to say hes worth that? Do you think that hes really done that much to deserve one BILLION dollars? Please break this down for the simple folk like me? Esplain whats he done? MAde? What does he produce? Whats so difficult about his job that warrants being paid like that much money. even if he makes half like you say I will assume you make the average 40 gand a year Do you think whats he does is worth 1200 times what you do? do you think he needs or and should get that much money for what he does

With all that has been given to him do you think rush has done with his wealth? do you think he investes in local american made kind of companies? do you think he donates alot to charity if so how much and any sauces on that? I think Im just asking the things everyone wants to really know?

I hope you are discounting every thing Im saying be cause of my "ill-grammar" Im a crupple  and have to type with my nose!

>>22
If you're going to make arguments, use information that falls within an acceptable range of estimation.  That's what I meant.  So: 40m-50m a year with speeches, which can be calculated by examining the studio he broadcasts from combined with published information about his speech giving.  This is before factoring in giving to charity and any tax deductions that entails (I didn't look into that).  The one billion is a personal ballpark estimation based on his ongoing career of radio speaking since the early '90s, vaguely considering inflation, though it would probably be easy to find out an actual number if you find the right person to ask.

The grammar plea was an earnest request.  If you believe changing the salary is a major challenge to your argument, then argument had a problem long before I ever spoke up.

>>22

Mistake number 1 is the conflation of "wealth" with "worth".  That's why plutocracy is the defacto religion of the domesticated west.  We see ourselves as walking dollar signs.

We're worth something because we exist, and because we can reason.  Being human is your worth.  Money is a trap in some ways.

Definition of NIGGER
1
usually offensive; see usage paragraph below : a black person
2
usually offensive; see usage paragraph below : a member of any dark-skinned race
3
: a member of a socially disadvantaged class of persons <it's time for somebody to lead all of America's niggers … all the people who feel left out of the political process — Ron Dellums>

Usage Discussion of NIGGER
Nigger in senses 1 and 2 can be found in the works of such writers of the past as Joseph Conrad, Mark Twain, and Charles Dickens, but it now ranks as perhaps the most offensive and inflammatory racial slur in English. Its use by and among blacks is not always intended or taken as offensive, but, except in sense 3, it is otherwise a word expressive of racial hatred and bigotry.

Origin of NIGGER
alteration of earlier neger, from Middle French nègre, from Spanish or Portuguese negro, from negro black, from Latin niger
First Known Use: 1574

>>11
by rich of course you mean the all of america and Europe right? Yes, that includes everyone on this board, for the simply fact that they have access to a computer. Rich means an awful lot to someone in real poverty. Stop trying to play the downtrodden child you spoilt shit.

>>19
But it IS their money, whether or not they worked for it or not.

>>27
I am still fact checking early comments that side tracked the issue witch is money used to enslave us. Rich have liad cliam to more than there fair share. Theft by fraud is still theft and you cant earn or really call yours something you stole. simple case simple answer. take it back!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll just post this quote from the film Network (1976) with a link to video as to why we're not truly free.

"You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won't have it! Is that clear? You think you've merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case! The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance! You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU... WILL... ATONE!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqEcLlp_Big&t=1m6s

I think we hijacked OPs thread?

>>29
We will never be truly free until this corporate cosmology is accomplished.

9 here. Wow, I thought this thread died since no one replied for days after me.

Since this thread takes a direction towards the subject of wealth and riches, I'll put in my two cents.

Just like the concept of freedom has been corrupted over the past decades, so has the concept of wealth. People now days have taken to the view the that been rich by and of itself is evil and should have their wealth allocated through socialism..etc.

The truth is, and this is what eludes a lot of people, the important factor in determining whether a person's rich is legit is not how rich he is, it's HOW he got rich.

Fundamentally wealth can only be gotten through two ways: You either get rich legitimately by producing wealth (labor, business, trade..etc.), or you take wealth by force from others who produced them. I don't think I have to elaborate here which is good and which is evil.

The fact of the matter is, because it's not a pure free market out there, there are illegitimate corporate monopolies and big businesses who got rich not because of legit skill in their trade to compete, but because they get to go in bed with a government that gets to manipulate the economy though socialist policies that can be lobbied to favor these said corporate and businesses (bailouts, market regulations..etc.).

People who got suckered in by today's popular politics and doesn't know the intricacy herein gets so bottled up on the face value of been rich such as a company's earnings or a CEO's salary and whatnot that they call for socialism. And when more socialist policies gets injected into the economy by an already big government, and more illegitimate corporate monopolies and big businesses rises, these same people ignorant of what they are doing calls for more.

What matters isn't the figure behind the $ sign, what matters is how that figure is gotten. When politic policies judges based on the $ instead of the "How", that's when bad things we have today or worse happens.

(ie pressed report by misclick, false alert to any mod peeking here)

>>31
You mean, extinguished. Then, yes, certainly so.

>>28
But most rich people haven't stolen money (and I say most in the same context that most blacks aren't criminals or most americans aren't morbidly obese).

Most people don't start rich. They earn some from working, then they invest it. If you buy a business which grows tenfold in a decade and then sell it, you might now have, say, $10m profit. That money IS yours and you DIDN'T steal it. Also with the example earlier, some guy got paid $40m a year for various appearances and speeches. Sure, outrageous money in my view, but narrowed down, it is simply one person paying another for making a speech or performance, and that is not stealing or theft, just business.

You really are all stereotyping rich people with a few (rich) bad eggs. It's the same type of prejudice that you would frown at others for having in different examples.

Some of us do just want to b elect alone... to raise our kids, enjoy this planet, and live peacefully.
BUT: put a peaceful, "wants-to-be -left-alone" type into a critical position: threaten his/her peace/family/etc, and you might get a hero.

Everything you do benefits the Jews. Every little thing you buy from the store, your rent money, your taxes, everything goes towards Jewish controlled institutions and ultimately a large portion goes to Israel.

We should strive for complete autarky, perhaps a white homeland somewhere in Idaho where we can grow all of our own food, have strict immigration laws, and make sure there are no "Jews" or anyone who acts like them.

>> 36
Yes please. Go there. Secede so we can live in peace without you.

day is never finished master got me working someday master going to set me free

>>32

No the question is why humans have fetishized money to such a degree that nothing else matters.  It's a system that grinds human beings into nothing and that rewards the inhuman impulses we do have.  Our economy (at least the US) is funded by people buying worthless shit they don't need or really even want.  You could live quite well in a small house with no TV, no radio, and so on.  You've been taught to need a cellphone-computer so you can watch more TV (and thus more ads) and taught to need an iPad and a laptop.  We've been taught to love "fashion" the --weirder the better -- so that we throw away perfectly good clothing every year. It's not a natural lifestyle.  And Communist VS Capitalist is not the issue.  The issue is the rule of money.  That "system" is the elephant in the room. 

Most things that we want to do are monitized.  Wanna go for a swim -- pay $10 for a ticket to the pool.  Wanna fish?  pay up.

>>39
Stop demonizing money then if it's the system, it's confusing, call me stupid if you want but if you intend to educate millions of people you're going to have to be liberal with Ockham's razor and talk straighter than the course taken by your mother towards a bucket of KFC.

>>39

Fucking A.
You speak my thoughts.

I am so fucking sick of living with this idiot economy.
The good side is it's possible to live very very well with much less than is considered necessary. And with much less stress.
The bad side is: $10 tickets to swim.

>>40

if you intend to be taken seriously at all, you're going to have to avoid insults.

>>39

Money is just a financing tool, one of the oldest and most important one in fact, that without which the economy will be thrown back to the prehistorical barter system (aka can I buy your house with 100k jugs of milk).

There's nothing wrong nor inhuman about wanting better things in life. What is wrong is living beyond your current means. It's one thing to find a better job or start your own business to try and fiance your ability to purchase additional goods, it's quite another to blow through credit card after credit card with no plan nor means to ever pay back the debt.

If anything, it's the lack of financial knowledge that's causing the current wave of personal fiance crisis, not some commercials.

As for things been monetized, why should other people work for free for you? Things that are monetized are things that other people have to work to provide for you. The swimming pool is built by workers, didn't just grown out of the earth. Fishing is pretty much free unless you want to rent the sticks. It's a trade, you want others to work to service you, you gotta give them something that pays for their work.

>>41
If you want to be succesful you're going to have to accept criticism.

>>42
ah, but you are wrong.
Beautiful lakes have been fenced in and turned into "swimming areas" where one is a) not allowed to swim outside the fence, and b) forced to pay for lifeguard "protection", whether or not it is desired, in order to swim at all.

You assume so much with your naive acceptance of all things capitalistic.

OMFG! >>40 just vebally fisted >>39's anus...Oh. Ma. Gawd.

>>44

And you are naive about what exactly is capitalistic and what is socialistic.

An example like the one you just posted can only happen in a socialistic (or mixed) society where the government can regulate where you can and cannot swim.

In a free-market you can swim where the hell you like as long as it's not in someone else's swimming pool. No private establishment can force you to not swim in wild waters, not by law.

>>46

pssst: you are confusing the free-market (an economic system)
with actual liberty.
Ever heard of China?

>>47

Can you sale guns in China?

If not then China is not a free market.

You can have freer market, but to be a true free market is something else.

But point is, free market is just a natural occurrence when people have liberty. You can't have the one without the other.

Point is, you could have a "free market" system without liberty.
Does this "free market" of which you speak actually exist anywhere in the world?

You can't have a market that's strictly semi free. It's either everything can be traded, or not.

You can have a market that's freer than before, meaning that somethings which were prohibited from be traded is allowed now, but that doesn't automatically mean everything is allowed to be traded (China).

If you don't have political liberty, that means among other things you can't work/trade freely to a certain degree, that automatically means you don't have a free market.

And no, a true free market currently does not exist anywhere in the world, the freest one so far is of course the United States.

>>51

Hmmm, US economic system.
Yeah, okay. Don't like it.
NEXT!

>>52

Haha, you saying it as if you have a better option currently else where in the world.

US economic system is bad and continues to go downward alright, but still currently the best and freest.