America and the Uphill battle

  Sometimes I think that the reason America is changing is because of China.  All the terrible things that Americans increasingly observe their government doing are just things that China has always done.  One fact is sure, the American empire is in decline and a vacuum has appeared which seeks to be filled by some other superpower, namely China.  This means that there is now a conflict between the people on the way out and the those on the way in.
   Why is it that Americans have been so silent about the gentle foreign policy between America and China.  If you want to see your country stand, in the future, for what it stood for in the past, demand that your government condemn China.  Demand reforms in China.  That would seriously address the problems in America at the root.
   One other thing to keep in mind is that, while America will have decreasing authority over China, internally, American corporations will increasingly side with and collude with China because that is where all the growth is (supposedly).  This means that the citizens of the United States are in a battle, not only with a maturing fascist state, but with their own corporations.
    You have a serious uphill battle.  Perhaps disintegration of the Union is inevitable, but something tells me that the values for which it stands mean a lot to those who live there.  So much so, that they may be willing to fight for them.
    One other thing to ponder is this.  Is the American government becoming more like China (insofar as it is increasingly infringing on human rights), because it wants to compete in this dog eat dog modern world?  Perhaps it is making this change because of a kind of silent colonization.  The citizens of America are accepting these changes and so goes the government to be more and more like that in China.  Those Americans crippled by debt are now, essentially, just like the 900 million peasant-slaves in China.
   Could one country really hijack the government of another?  Possibly, if the key players in the government are actually the CEOs of corporations which have no allegiance to the country at all and simply seek to maximize growth.  To me it seems just as reasonable that the Bush administration could be seen as making "difficult decisions to protect Americans" as they could be seen as transforming the country into a compliant province of the next super power, namely China.

  peace

The US imports more than it exports, it makes things other countries don't want or can't afford, the agriculture and manufacturing sectors are decreasing, there's not enough mining and storing of natural resources, travel is inefficient, space is wasted on urban sprawl and mini malls, pay rates are too high for employers to hire anyone, education isn't as valued at a young age, culture is empty and run by a few soulless corporations, the political system is getting more corrupt, and the US dollar is losing value, so let's talk about it on TV and pray on Sundays and it will all get better.  Oh, I see China is mining everything from Africa, neat.

>>1
>HURR DURR THE SKY IS FALLING
The US isn't declining, the rest of the world is just catching up.
>>2
Even if the US state is ignorant of market forces, multi-national corporations are not, the US exports franchises, investments, services, expertise and technology, we are finding bigger markets in China than we ever could in the highly competitive west.

Also the amount of space wasted on urban sprawl and mini malls is miniscule, I don't see why you think that's a problem. Somehow I don't think using an acre of land for an in demand minimall instead of using it to produce $35 worth of corn a year is a waste.

>>3
Pretty much everything >>2 mentioned is quite accurate. At least for those who live on the east coast of the U.S. There's really not much manufacturing being done in the United States as there was say, during the 1940's to the early 1960's. And by "manufacturing", I mean not just things simply be assembled from parts made elsewhere.

Tell me, when is the last time you actually saw on the back of a manufactured product that say, "Made in U.S.A."? I can only think of two items off the top of my head located in my home that bear that marking, a bunch of sauce cups from Friendly's restaurant and this computer chair I'm sitting on as I type this.

Granted, you can find nearly almost ANYTHING that bears "Made in U.S.A." on the back, but you have to of course, do some searching that basically REQUIRES use of the Internet these days. The common person will unlikely be able to purchase goods that were made in the U.S. And most wouldn't care enough to do so either.

>>4
Starbucks, Walmart, McDonalds, Microsoft, all of these are made in America. China is only manufacturing more due to their cheaper labor, not because of some technological superiority. If they were technologically superior we'd be the ones making all their shit while we eat kung pao chicken with noodles and a ginger bubble tea at Muk Don's.

The idea that china is a market of consumers for american goods is  potentially a myth.  First, the majority (900 million out of 1.3 billion) of people there penniless peasants.  Second, the remaining portion still have far less money than american middle class.

microsoft is one of the reasons america is failing to the chinese.  The ubiquity of that operating system and its inherent weaknesses have allowed for two things.  First, it is a market and an infrastructure built on a paper thin base; the software and its source code can be copied and pirated as is being done in china.  Second, its susceptibility to viruses have allowed for the theft of many, proprietary technologies.

Walmart is also a major source of the shift of power away from america and towards China.  By ensuring cheap product, they are stymying the inflation necessary to reduce the impact of the debt which america carries.  They are increasing america's exposure to national bankruptcy. 

That is on top of the fact that, by closing down small retailers, Walmart adds to a general trend of removing the autonomy and empowerment of the individual (small business owner).  This is a strikingly Chinese notion.

>>5
Microsoft's Xbox 360 is not made in the U.S. And its software producing only benefits those financially who are involved in the process: programmers, beta testers, those who are part of the MSDN Network, ect.

Pretty much everything sold in Walmart is Made In China or Taiwan. You'd be hard pressed to find something that is Made In U.S.A. in Walmart.

Starbucks and McDonald's are producers of perishable fast food items and beverages. While they do provide entry-level jobs to Americans, I'll be willing to bet even some of McDonald's non-food stuffs (plastic cups, containers, ect.) are not made in the States (I could be wrong about this however).

Technological superiority has nothing to do with it. Just a decade ago Silicon Vally was a technology mecca here in the United States. Nowadays, people look towards India or the emerging technology sector in Ireland as the technological meccas of today. It's outsourcing that is the problem, and there's much need for reform in that regard.

>>6
Cool strawman bro. I never said China is a market for American goods, I said it is a market for American services like investments and franchises. American companies are setting up shop in China, I never said they were exporting goods to China, they buy chinese shit and sell it to chinese at a higher price and use the money to import luxuries from China. They sell services to china and buy goods. What's so difficult to understand about that?
>>7
Well here I agree. Frankly I'd prefer it if walmart ran the country, they might not have the right systems and organisation, yet, but at least they are realists.
>>8
You're not one of these ignorant idealist leftists who don't understand the service economy are you? You'll be hard pressed to find a Chinese company in the US, but you will find many Korean and Japanese companies in the US because they are predominately service economies. None of these companies need to manufacture anything in their own countries, they can use chinese cheap labor and still make a profit, they make their money by possessing better technology and being better organised than their competitors.

Also I find it funny that you didn't mention the fact that China spends a higher proporition of it's GDP on R&D than any other country in the world then mentioned India and Ireland as some kind of technological mecca, you've been sucking China's cock through the entire thread, this pretty much shows how poorly informed you are.

>>9
To clear up confusion, I'm >>8 & >>4 not the OP.

You'll be hard pressed to find a Chinese company in the US, but you will find many Korean and Japanese companies in the US because they are predominately service economies.

I agree. And the only time I really mentioned China was in >>8. In reality, I'm speaking in more broad terms, or at least attempting to.

None of these companies need to manufacture anything in their own countries

Right. I don't know about Korea, but I know there's still some stuff that's manufactured and Made In Japan, and I have no proof of this but anecdotally, I find products that are made in said country to be of better quality.

they can use chinese cheap labor and still make a profit, they make their money by possessing better technology and being better organised than their competitors.

Once again, I agree. Of course they make good profit, maybe even at times excess profit. Now, I find nothing wrong with profit, you need to make profit in order to keep a sustainable business, and is very important. *Goes to pat the company executive on the back for a job well done*

 What ends up happening is the customer ends up getting the raw end of the deal (as well as the laborers in China and elsewhere of course, but I'm not going to get into that). Planned obsolescence, a shoddy product that could have the potential to do so much more. And the controversy with the children receiving lead poisoning from the paint that was used as a finish on their toys, cribs, ect. because of poor or even non-existent quality control and inspection.

It boggles the mind to believe that pouring money into these American companies that don't even manufacture their goods here in America is the way to long term prosperity for this nation (and by long term, I don't mean just the next ten years). It just makes total sense to me if more of the American people bought quality goods that were made here in the United States instead of overseas that overall things would improve, economically and society as a whole.

Of course there is nothing wrong with buying things that weren't manufactured in the U.S., but it would seem that one going out of his way to purchasing a product that he ensured was 100% made in the U.S. is thought of by most as backwards and strange...but it's a good thing to do.

Is it idealist? Probably. Is it too late to change back? I would say so. Sure, if the general public were much more aware of this and actually cared enough, they'd be up in arms about this. Companies wouldn't stick their necks out, and would just continue to maintain the status quo. It's the classic case of maximizing profit over people; of course that's no surprise.

Meh.

Labor laws in the US need to be changed.  Employers want affordable labor, yet paying someone full time is the biggest expense of the company due to minimum wage, income tax, social security, health insurance, vacations, pension and 401K retirement, labor laws preventing young people from working while women, minorities and the disabled are given special privileges. 

There are so many costs with just hiring one person that most companies look for degree holders with several years of experience already- why would they spend extra money hiring an entry level employee and train them over the next few years when entry level employment still has so many extra costs?  Just calculate the yearly wage of an employee and find out how much it costs the company per month, multiplied by the number of employees.  They don't want to pay that much for more people even if it means creating more jobs.  Most of the income would be going towards paying employees, so you either hire less people, or outsource at less than what it costs to pay minimum wage plus benefits.  If you do hire more people just to create more jobs then the company has a high chance of operating at a loss and going bankrupt.  If you're a small business and need to borrow money to pay full time salaries, good luck.  With current employment laws, US business is not sustainable.

>>11
I agree. There's a dire need for reform. How that reform will come about and when, is anyone's guess.

>>10
Sorry but the factors you've mentioned are pretty weak. Quantity goods can be produced anywhere with little capital investment or technical expertist and compete with the most technological advanced and developed nations on the world market, the only disadvantage is in the cost of shipping which is hyper-efficient nowadays. You also talk as though virtually nothing is manufactured in the US even though manufacturing output alone is 50% of the entire GDP of China. There is also the fact that American workers are paid much more than workers across the globe, minimum wage makes an American 3 times more wealthy than the average person in China and this doesn't include social security and all that.

>>13
Thus does the amighty Invisible Hand of the Free Market gather up all of America's wealth and, grind it to a fine powder, and scatter it thinly around the globe, in a microscopically thin layer of what a cannibal Jivaro headhunter might call "prosperity."

We export jobs, we export prosperity, we import manufactured goods and Third World wage scales and living conditions.

In fifty years running water will be only a legend, something old people talk about.  Hooray, we're winning the race to the bottom.