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ITT WHY PUBLIC SCHOOLS SUCK

Name: Anonymous 2008-03-20 3:48

STUPID IN AMERICA
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw

Lets face it, public schools are made of total fail, and we spend more on education than the entire budgets of some countries.  Lets stop the massive fail and get some real solutions like Educational Freedom/School Choice.

Name: RedCream 2008-04-29 12:36

>>120
You have ZERO evidence that a competitive environment is "worse" in the USA.  Since such a system will be at least cheaper while delivering about the same results in the mean time, GUARANTEES that the system will be better on average.  Since you obviously don't care about system cost, as a Finnish Socialist Faggot, then you don't understand that in the first place.

Go back to your "DERP DERP DERP" since that made more sense and had a truthful name to it.

P.S.  YOU made the erroneous assumption that the education and medical systems were linked.  Obviously they are not.  The medical care system has the opposite problem in the US, in that there's too much emphasis on profit and not enough on outright care.  But you don't want to hear those points since you use America's problematic medical care system as the reason to hate the entire nation.  What, Finns don't have socio-economic problems?  Bullshit.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-29 14:39

>>121
facepalm.png

clearly your education doesn't allow you to make out the simple links. Your medicine sucks because there is too much emphasis on profit - what the fuck do you think will happen if you make education all about making money, idiot?

Not to mention, I'm astounded by how your retarded mind makes up guarantees while ignoring contradicting evidence. I guess that is again due to your failing all-american schooling

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-29 15:00

>>118
Oh man, look at how the Finnish education fails

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Finland

...err disregard that, clearly gaylibfagcommunist wikipedia is vandalized by stupid finn trolls. They only don't change the system because socialist communist finns are afraid of change, they're scared of educational competition. It is an absolute wreck, proven by competitive international tests. It is clear that Finns with socialist upbringing are denying this obvious failure while free-thinking Americans who are in no way fed retarded misinformation are showing them the truth. Oh, wait...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120425355065601997.html

tl;dr cry more, amerifags

Name: RedCream 2008-04-29 17:41

>>122
Clearly you have a reading disability.  The public school system in the USA is STARTING from a bad and monopolistic condition.  Introducing competition is a possible fix.  It can't be MORE EXPENSIVE, so even if it doesn't deliver better education, it will still be a BETTER system since it will be CHEAPER.

Once again, you being a Finnish Socialist Faggot, you just don't understand the concept of measuring results by their COSTS.

In privatizing (as American education was in the 1800s), I'm taking the CHANCE that educational results will be greater.  But we know to the nth degree about what does NOT work in the USA anymore, and that's a public school system.  The professionals and politicians running the system can't be used to FIX IT.  Hence, we have to get RID OF THEM.  Getting rid of the entrenched and unionized LOSERS only means that we have to privatize.

This privatization can happen in steps, too, with measurable results along the way.  No doubt your Socialist Faggotry doesn't accept that way, either.  But regardless of how anyone feels about it, increased personal choice in the USA is coming.  More and more parents are finding other options than the minority-filled uneducational institutions that the failing cities still operate as cash cows for themselves.  This is going to get worse for the minorities before it gets better, but we have to try a fix that has at least a CHANCE of working.  Using the same unionized LOSERS to fix it has NOT worked.  Charlotte Iserbyt showed clearly how that didn't work.

So I say PRIVATIZE.  Kick those unionized LOSERS to the fucking curb and let the profit motive come up with possible educational systems that work.  If not?  Well, 20 years from now, we'll know and arrive at a different solution.  But after a good 20 years of trying to keep the same unionized LOSERS in charge, we know for a FACT that that choice DOES NOT WORK.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-29 18:13

>>124
I see that you're still being a short-sighted idiot and ignoring the source of the problem, not to mention still ignoring evidence and thinking the united states is some sort of bizzaro-land where liberals are regarded as left wi-oh wait... Keep it up.

Name: RedCream 2008-04-29 19:50

>>125
Considering an alternate fix for 20 years of solid "false-fixing" behavior is the very definition of being LONG-sighted.  Using public-school paradigms for fixing the failing public school system in the USA has ONLY produced MOAR FAIL.  That's the definition of insanity, right?  Doing the same thing after failing to produce results the first time?  Since fixing the system WITHIN the system is a clear, failing method, then something else must be tried.  That "something else" is PRIVATIZATION.

If there's anyone where ignoring evidence, it's YOU, as a Finnish Socialist Faggot.  Your Finnish system works in Finland.  Finland doesn't have the minorities and wealth-distribution and transportation problems that the USA have.  But that's typical Socialist behavior, to assume that their state-centric system works in all cases.  Well, the heavily-Socialist system in the USA is PURE FAIL.  Any other view of it is delusional and ... well, Finnish in nature.

Name: Ubernostrom 2008-04-29 22:59

I've had just about enough of this.

Red, I would love to know the name of the teacher or teachers who failed you (possibly rightly) that you've taken such a jaundiced look at them. You honestly seem to believe that the whole of the public school system is full of people who went to school for at least two years on the pure basis that they can entrench themselves, get a paycheck, never do their job and never get called for it. Your argument fails on too many reactionary levels to call out without being tl;dr-worthy, none the least of which is your unsaid assertion that minorities should shut the fuck up and march directly into prison, and stop taking up desk space.

Finnish-person: Calling Red out with the virtues of your opinion doesn't work, nor does trying to defend them against his willful ignorance. Also, when you catch him, he ignores you and moves to the next person who can't defend himself. Being an internet tough guy appears to be the only joy left to him, capitalizing words when he gets upset is like getting a new puppy to him. Now, explain how you would modify and implement the system you claim to have firsthand experience with in America or hold your peace. Feel free to mention the methods that Finland uses to place education as being important, I doubt anyone else read those articles.

Name: RedCream 2008-04-30 0:03

>>127
You must be referencing statistics about public schools in the USA that are made up by some unionized think tank.  The sad reality is that I'M RIGHT, which only means you're living in denial.  You can try to play the falsehood that what I'm saying is some emotionally based conclusion, but the real problem here is that your denial about public-school problems is the true emotional tie.

Talk to some of these unionized losers and find out EXACTLY how little they want to be held responsible for the legions of children who leave their classrooms being unable to read, perform arithmetic, construct a rational essay, or even think with any critical ability.  All this lack of performance is not defended; no, these unionized LOSERS just claim none of it is their responsibility, and oh yeh, they need another 4% COLA this year along with their great health-care plans.

You apologists are rife.  Your dismissals of our criticisms are calculated and empty.  ADDRESS MY POINTS OR ADMIT YOU'RE A PROPAGANDIST.

Fuckball.

P.S.  The Finnish Socialist Faggot will NOT mention any Finnish methods of instruction since he can't bring those up without my destroying them.  Finland has a different society, and doesn't suffer minority-dominance in urban school systems which are nonetheless ringed by vicious Whites who are only looking to finally put up walls to "keep the Blacks in".  That's what a public school in America actually is:  A pre-prison, just to get the minority children used to being institutionalized.  Obviously, the White Liberals who run these pre-prisons have to be FIRED FIRED FIRED before actual walls are put up for the ultimate in segregation.

And how do we do that?  BY PRIVATIZING.

If some suburban school is producing children who can read, write, calculate and overall THINK, then those schools have nothing to fear.  But overall, the average public school is sinkhole for unionized LOSERS who are just babysitting minorities who have no real homes anyway.  There's a cheaper way to serve the ultimate CUSTOMER of the schools:  the TAXPAYER.  And that cheaper way is PRIVATIZATION.  Fire the unions and then ban them from the privatization scheme.  Link performance and pay.  So if the performance isn't there like it isn't there NOW, then at least it will be cheaper, hence it will better serve the CUSTOMER:  the TAXPAYER.

I realize that in Finland, the taxpayer is a just a rube who has to pay and STFU.  I bet you propagandists think that sounds like fucking HEAVEN, doesn't it?  Fortunately, liberty has a larger following in the USA than in Finland, and we have more choices for avoiding unionized LOSERS who only want to keep their paychecks rolling.

Yeh, so I'm going to sit back and wait for the Finnish Socialist Faggot to actually discuss METHODS.  I won't hold my breath, since I'll lose consciousness.  His native methods are not applicable to America and he KNOWS IT.

Name: Ubernostrom 2008-04-30 3:33

>>128
I've adressed your points before, you vacous waste of flesh, go read >>74 and actually respond.

I've agreed with you that the teacher's union is absolute shit, and should be quietly disbanded or brought to task by the government actually holding them accountable. That aspect of NCLB would be great, if not for the fact that the only method that system has for catching teachers is a sink-or-swim mentality, which leaves the children to founder as well. The best credence I'll give to the Finnish is that their government uses their (relatively) enormous tax income to actually push education as being important, and the prevalence of trade schools prepares people far better than a shitty liberal-arts degree. Past that, our societies are too different to merely transplant one system whole into the other.

Before you presume to characterize me as some fool who spouts what the unions feed to the public, I shall remind you that I have firsthand knowledge of the shit that goes on. Not every goddamned public school is a bars-on-windows pre-prison, merely a good portion of ones in severe urban areas. Not every teacher is there for paychecks and tenure, some would actually like to teach, despite the children coming in fucked-up.

My overall objection to your simplification of "public schools fail, the only other option is privitization, agree or you're a libfag socialist" is that you have no basis in realistic practice. To reiterate: Private institutions work because they have enough money to lure away the best teachers, and the money comes from parents who care enough about their children to make an actual effort to invest in their future. With the 'magic' of your competition you will get what experts call a clusterfuck; parents scrambling to get their children into the 'good' school, less affluent parents forced to settle, and a bidding war for the best teachers. Where do the poor belong in this, then? What guarantee does your plan have against teachers blatantly cheating to ensure their new jobs? Who is going to run these private institutions, and who guarantees the curriculum?

You have adressed none of my questions posed thus far, indulge my curiousity. Also, an open dare: Answer my questions without making a caricature of my position or myself, and actually think your notions through to their end results. Do this and I might just stop considering you to be nothing more than a parasite stealing my oxygen.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-30 10:36

>>126

Shortly, congrats on ignoring the reason behind the fail which causes people not knowing your language running around your nation, and of course I'm sure privatizing schools would help with wealth distribution. Nice way to prove your mental myopia.

Name: RedCream 2008-04-30 22:38

>>129
JUDAS PRIEST, can you even HEAR YOURSELF talk?!?!

Where do the fucking poor belong?  THE POOR ARE SCREWED NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS!

Either we keep them in a public school system where they earn a PhD in "learned helplessness" and other aspects of Communist/welfare thought, OR they are herded into leftover private institutions that fail equally to teach them.  The poor are fucked no matter what ... SINCE THE US IS RUN BY PEOPLE WHO VALUE MONEY OVER EVERYTHING ELSE.

What the FUCK do you think education in the USA really is FOR, anyway?  It's not to make people better persons.  It's not for advancing the knowledge of Humanity.  No, motherfucker, all education in the USA is geared towards MAKING MORE MONEY.

All my reasoning is based upon this basic assumption, which I've tried to reveal TIME AND TIME AGAIN by emphasizing that "private schools can still fail in the same fashion but will be cheaper".  I've said that MANY TIMES.  But you Socialist Faggots are unable to hear the siren song of MONEY.  That's why you're SOCIALISTS.

And Socialism isn't that much of a bad thing, as long as you actually accomplish gaining in HUMAN RESOURCES what you set out to gain.  Of course, even "Socialists" in the US are largely Corporate-Socialists under a thin veneer of Cultural-Socialists.  They only care about MONEY, too.  They only value Human resources as long as more of the same yuppie Socialists are created to support the Empire.  That's why I'm calling you a bunch of fags.  Most of you pretend to be oh-so-concerned about people, and then you run 110% in favor of MONEY MONEY MONEY in everything you do.  Boil you down, and what's left over is GREED.

So at least I'm HONEST about what's important in a Western-styled school system.  What's important is to get it done AT LEAST COST.  That delivers the most value to the CUSTOMER, who is the TAXPAYER.  In Socialism, the taxpayer has no rights and is summarily ignored.  In Socialism, the customer is the WHITE ELITES (largely Jews) WHO RUN THE SYSTEM AS ADMINISTRATOR-GODS.

P.S.  I am taking this oxygen as I desire and you have no power to stop me.  Brag and strut all you want.  You're powerless.

Name: Ubernostrom 2008-05-01 2:00

>>131
Frankly, I can't hear myself talk when I'm typing silently. However, you have proven one very important thing: you are paranoid and quite possibly moderately delusional on several levels.

You have yet to explain anything or adress anything in a cogent manner, merely passing personal opinion as god-given fact. You are sound and fury, signifying nothing; I'm still waiting for you to answer my questions, or to even explain how your system would work.

When you are quite done trying to be the lead douchebag, try again, and do it right. Take all the oxygen you need in the meantime, I cannot help but pity someone whose brain has apparently been denied it for this long.

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-01 3:59

>>131
The amount of self-contradiction in the post hilarious. Enjoy.

Name: RedCream 2008-05-01 6:25

>>132
You still haven't explained how the poor are somehow taken care of in the current system.  They aren't.  No matter WHAT system you enact in the USA, the culture of MONEY MONEY MONEY will inevitably put the poor in the least-service category.

If Finland wants to help out, they can pay for shipping America's poor to Finland where they can magically get the same or similar educational services that the Whiter or richer set get.  Of course, Finland will do no such thing, since they will make the same money decision.

REDCREAM WINS AGAIN.  Being unable to address RedCream's facts and opinions, his opponents retreat behind blather and ad hominem, which neatly cover their failure to address ANY of his points.

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-01 9:19

>>134
Of course, when you declare yourself your retarded misconceptions as true, you prove them!

I don't know how many times do I have to repeat for it to go through your thick skull: you are moving the wrong way, in a very short-sighted manner.

Name: Ubernostrom 2008-05-01 12:52

>>134
What facts do you have? It is hard to adress and deconstruct an argument when it is made of circular logic wrapped around pure fantasy. Every time you simply state "I win" is another testament to your delusions of mediocrity.

Provide facts, evidence, or even someone else's facts and evidence for us to gaze at skeptically. Or, get the hell out of this thread; You have lost.

Name: RedCream 2008-05-01 23:43

Ubie, you and your anonyminion are long on denial and short on facts.  Let's break it down for you, and you are ONLY allowed to respond to EACH PIECE and not to perform ad hominem attacks or other distraction techniques:

1. Public schools in the USA are failures since on average they produce legions of children who can't read, write, calculate or think, in two ways:  (a) in comparison to other nations of the world with organized school systems, and (b) in the absolute sense since they can't perform basic tasks like apply for jobs, balance their checkbooks, or understand a mortgage.

2. The failure of the public schools has been noted, then addressed for well over a generation.  All such fix actions have failed since the public schools just got worse.  (A "fix" is defined as an act that repairs the damage.)

3. Since the schools are failing and have resisted fixes, they should be radically reformed.  This is an obvious medical metaphor; when gentle medicine fails, harsher measures are necessary.

4. Radical reform of public school systems in the USA would involve the single thing that's missing:  COMPETITION.  Hence, privatization should be tried en masse for the most failsome of the school systems (largely, urban systems).

No, Ubie, I dare you to address those issues.  I've attached helpful numbers to each flawless point so you can easily reference what you're talking about when you respond on-topic.

Name: Ubernostrom 2008-05-02 4:44

>>137
Finally, a postulation with cogent points to adress that state your opinion without trying to poison the well or attack me as a person. You've still managed to claim your points as flawless, so you still have some work to do, but I will cede that you've actually made an effort. Now, my take on things:

1.) I agree with you on this point, mostly. The public school system did in fact attempt to adress your (b) statement at one point, but were among the first programs cut to make money and time for hammering the 3R's into the inept. This is a travesty in the sense that you get social retards, you also lose the intangible benefit of having people realize that math and reading skills are actually important, and reinforce past learning.

2.) The failure of public schools has been a series of fixes, yes. However, none of these fixes have ever been anything but a series of stop gap solutions that temporarily fix the symptoms, not the root problem. What you consider to be fixes have been nothing of the sort, just bureaucrats tossing money at something they hope will go away. When those fail, people naturally just lower the bar a bit, hence our downward spiral. I steadfastly believe that if we had enacted the series of incentives NCLB offers, for good or for ill, we might be in a better situation.

3.) Taking note of what I just wrote, the solution is not always taking the harsher method, but the correct one for the situation. Fat people could simply eat less and change their habits, or they can have surgery and staple their stomachs smaller; both solve a problem, only one is actually beneficial in the long run. And the long-term solutions are the only ones I or anyone else should really be considering, if the need is that dire.

4.) Perhaps a trial of expanding private schools could be tried, but you are once again oversimplifying the actual problems to suit your argument. That is what makes your arguments sound delusional and makes nobody take you seriously. Reform of public schools doesn't need competition at this stage so much as it needs competent teachers' unions, teachers, students, and curriculum.

Now, questions for you:
1.) If educating the poor and minorities is a waste of time, what do you propose to do about them?
2.) Who guarantees the curriculum is correct and necessary? Who is to say that rich Jews of the world won't abandon subtlety to teach Zionism to our ignorant youth?
3.) What happens if/when this system becomes too large or insulated to regulate effectively?
4.) Short of complete abandonment and scrapping of the public school system, what actual fixes do you suggest?

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-02 4:49

>>137
1- Ahh, reminds me of "Jack has dandruff - solution? Cut his head off". Just because you and your fellow idiots failed to fix it, presumably because if public schools were any good they couldn't reap the massive profits from private education, doesn't mean it is impossible, and the presence of working public school systems on other places on earth should have made you understand this, but we have denial.

2-see 1

3- again see 1. Hmm it isn't like you do have separate points at all...

4-facepalm.png. Of course. More of what is causing the failure will fix it, I'm sure...

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-08 23:01

School choice is the only sensible option at this point.  Anyone who disagrees is obviously a douchebag/libfag.

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-09 4:30

>>140
Thanks for this awesome post, full of intelligent thought and arguments showing why your idea is correct.

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-09 11:40

American public skoolz will always fail until Brown vs. Board of Education is overturned.

America has within its borders thirty million ineducable IQ-55 African savages, a number approximately equal to the population of Kenya.

As long as Human students are forced to attend classes with African monkeys, and as long as the cirriculum is dumbed down to minimize the inevitable differences in intellectual performance between Humans and apes, American schools will continue to produce epic failure.

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-09 13:34

>>142
It's so true.

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-09 15:00

>>143
>>142
lol

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-09 18:33

I also agree that private schools should be invested in on a massive scale, allowing competition to raise quality and hopefully reach an affordable price for tuition that families would be willing to pay in spite of public education.  But investors want to see a profit, and I don't see cheap tuition as something that would make a profit or even pay for most school costs.  I'd like to see costs low enough to be worth it to low income parents, but prices will simply shoot up to college levels over time.

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-10 4:16

Privatise all schools and sell them off, use the money earned to pay off the deficit. Market forces will do the rest.

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-10 5:43

>>146
It is like believing in pixies, and magic.

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-10 6:45

>>147
THAT'S WHY COMMUNISM WORKS! AMIRITE?

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-10 7:15

>>148
Nope. gb2believing in the supernatural

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