Socialized Medicine

We can't afford it.  Some people like Michael Moore say that we should just divert funding for the war toward Socialized Medicine, but the fact of the matter is is that we can't afford the war either.  We are already borrowing money to finance a lot of the dumb programs already in place.  Government spending is out of control, and we need to exercise budget restraint now, not consider new areas to increase spending.

>>79
Recieving health care is France requires only French citizenship.  Because of the imperial chapter of their heritage, Algerians have a fast track to citizenship that many take advantage of.  Many people living in the French ghettos are not official citizens, compounded so by any attempts by French police forces to remove someone from the ghettos is accompanied by people bursting from any apartment building within view of a parked cop car, tearing the suspect back from their clutches.

These are the hallmarks of an underclass, and these are severe social calamities, but many, many Algerians have taken advantage of the citizenship available to them, and in turn taking advantage of the health care provided by France to every citizen.

I can't speak to the plight of the Pakistani or African immigrants from beyond the Algers...  but I suspect their circumstances do not defer much from any displaced people.

A difference, I think, between the situation in France and the situation in America is that France is struggling over the question of what to provide to these new citizens, rather than an underclass that was imported 400 years ago and ignored ever since.

Culturally, France is in much better shape to cope with the realities of a dynamic and changing world landscape.  The free flow of capital you've previously mentioned is indeed calamitous and vile, but money changing hands remains money.  Cultures flowing into places that can receive their vibrance and be duly invigorated.  That's what Renaissances are made of.  Algerians who do gain citizenship work hard, as hard as any immigrant who feels the nation around them is a place of opportunity that they've had to struggle to reach, rather than a place of opportunity one is born into and bored by because it is so very entitled to by birth... leading so many (4chan) to desperately distract themselves from life until they can finally die.

French literature, music, fashion, and business flourishes from this influx of energy and is all the stronger from it.  Try actually talking to someone from France...  or Europe in general.  If they've made it as far as where ever you're standing, chances are they're alive in ways you've never dared imagine.

>>80
That's funny, because I get the feeling you don't HEAR ME.  Hypercapitalists wish to commodify everything, do they not?  What more basic of a commodity would they seek then, if not human life?  When you commodify something, it's a simple matter of assigning a money value to it.  Not saving someone's life because it's not "worth it", or because they've brought those economic downturns upon themselves and you can't risk the terrifying prospect of it spreading across the rest of the Machine...  I honestly can't think of a example of your Hypercapitalism.

And as for a social revolution...  well, I suppose an american feels very revolutionary indeed when they actually start using the treadmill they bought off the TV 6 years ago and haven't used since... so I guess people actually demanding things from their democratic government and voting for the people who will comply, voting them out when they stray, and running for office themselves when they do not materialize...  You've had that big ol' treadmill gathering dust for quiet a while now, and it's sitting right there...

What's more fanciful?  An image of the Happy Meal generation erupting into a population of power walkers and aqua-yoga instructors, or people voting en masse for the representatives that wont let their children die?

You know, #81, it just occurred to me to notice that the previous assertion of "don't want to pay the hospital bills for ghetto wars" was not true.  I don't know why I missed it before.  We pay for ghetto shootings NOW.  Shots fired and people down in an American ghetto almost always results in the appearance of an ambulance.

That realization brings me back to what I've said before about American healthcare:  generally, we have a dishonest and underhanded form of socialized medicine.  This form is exercised in the emergency room at every hospital in the US.  With rare exceptions, those admitted with life-threatening wounds are treated, regardless of their ability to pay.  Eventually these stranded costs are passed onto other patients in the form of higher charges, or onto the taxpayer via government programs and tax-based adjustments.  If pursued for the costs of their care, the poor can just ignore the charges, and if better off they can just bankrupt (since care costs are so huge, they easily qualify the bankruptcy).

I know a man personally who ran up those kinds of bills.  That $180K worth of care was not paid by him; not dime one.  So, who paid it?  The state paid it, and hospital tax write-offs placed the further burden on state and national taxpayers.

Of course, there are many ways of adapting within such a system.  An emergency room is a great place to kill a nigger without being held responsible for it.  Just understaff, undertrain, overqualify ("just fill out these forms while we've stopped the bleeding for now"), and underequip.  A larger fraction of incoming patients will die on the table.

#82, where on Earth did you start thinking that Human life had such value in the West?  White folk have invented the most astounding and "conlific" forms of mass murder ever devised.  Underneath all those court battles, the cultural statement is clear:  who gives a fuck if you live or die.

Cultivating Human capital is just a concept around here.  Hidden again within it is the concept of CLASS.  Sure, the Human capital that's White, has the right last name, has lots of money and connections ... yeh, THAT GUY is deemed valuable and worth saving no matter what happens to him.  But start accumulating worthless characteristics like Blackness, poorness, and familial disenfranchisement, and you end up in the Human trash heap.

You really aren't addressing your comment to me.  Try instead talking to one of these fucking Hypercapitalists with your notions of "Human capital".  They'll probably regale you with carefully constructed stories about using overseas labor.  Once you start talking about the domestic natives, his smile will disappear and he'll place a quick call to building security to get your "pinko commie union leftie" ass out of his sight.  Those won't be my words, BTW; those will be his.  That's what his class of person thinks about the "rest of us".  99.9% of us are just scum to guys like that.

{snort}  Human capital.  What a laugh.

As for the treadmill ... clearly you've unwarrantedly discounted the fact that using a treadmill is work.  That is sits there does bother you, but that feeling can be suppressed with another beer and a night of football on the boob tube.

>>83
If people in power harboured such attitudes towards you and yours, wouldn't you be filled with a seething bloodlust from time to time?

>>84
I certainly hope the stories I'd be regaled with would be a bit more consistent than yours...  and perhaps mildly less absurd.

You start talking about human capital, when I was talking about human life, then finish off by snorting at human capital?  You're a deranged, prancing strawman without a brain.  I think it's high time you should be off to see the Wizard...  or have you already, but got lost along the way and ended up in front of the Grand Wizard?

As for the treadmill...  first you recommend a mass lifestyle change as the only solution, then deride it as impossible?  I still asserted that people voting for politicians that will oppose Hypercapitalism is far more realistic, as I do now, but you just grazed over that.

As for where I got the notion that Human Life means a damn in the West...  I guess I got distracted by every developed nation therein except the States, the ones with socialized health care, ya know?  Xenocentricity has, at its dark heart, Egocentricity, and therein you will find the heart of your Hypercapitalism Beast.  I'm sure the Thing appreciates your efforts here.

#86, Human life and capital are the same to the class of ruler that we're probably both discussing.  You seem to have a hard time accepting it.  I relate the attitudes of this ruling class and you assume that I hold my fellow man in the same contempt.  Relating a story is not the same as believing it or subscribing to its morality.

What is the mental problem you have with the difference between a recommendation, and the selfsame recognition that that recommendation is very likely going to be ignored?  Yes, people should be voting for more Humanistic politicians ... but THEY DON'T.  In America, the political system is essentially ruled by one party -- the Corporate War Party.  When it comes to the IMPORTANT things like "foreign relations" and "domestic economy", the Dems and Repubs are EXACTLY the same.  Anyone who tries to vote 3rd and other parties is swiftly classified as a loon ... hence they remain 99% marginalized in all elections at all levels of government.  The system is completely failsome and it's hard to put a stop to anything that's wrong, even evil.

I can only continue to insist that by the violence commonly expressed in the USA and the UK -- both within and aboard -- that Human life in those cultures has little value on average.  I already explained (as being self-evident) that the wealthy are the valued lives, whereas everyone else can take a snootful of some toxic pollutant and just die.  The masses can die under the Imperial bootheel and the media, academics, rules and "rube class" just won't care.  True, the "Rest of the West" (Franco-German Europe) does place more value on Human life, given their social programs ... with important exceptions like the darkies they import to perform nigger labor.  But millions more live in a brightly-lit Orwellian culture.

>>87
Seeing as how neither of us are the, I presume, in the ruling class, when I discuss human life, I find it out that you insist on viewing it in the terms of the ruling class and evaluating the right or wrongness of a thing on their terms.  I would once again request that you keep in mind we are discussing socialized medicine, and if we're talking about the "worth" of Human Life in regards to socialized medicine, then we can see how much value a nation places on said human life by how much the country is willing to spend to maintain and improve it through said health care... not grudgingly, like with your emergency room scenario, but WILLINGLY.

the UK has nationalized health insurance, so if a poor, fat, lazy, black citizen gets hit by a car, they are willing to spend whatever it takes to get him the appropriate care.  This means that the country is placing value on human life in general and keeping market interests at bay.  The same is true in every other developed European nation that seems to be off your radar, but remain fantastic places to live, from Sweden to Switzerland, Denmark and Belgium, Greece, Spain, Finland, WHATEVER.

I know you're just aching for idiotic excuses to toss around Orwellian terms and judge all these places you've never seen, where people are happy, healthy, strong and free, and that's just fine...  4chan isn't a place to acquire credibility, so naturally it doesn't matter losing it here either.

"I relate the attitudes of this ruling class and you assume that I hold my fellow man in the same contempt."
(pssst...  ruling class = racist)
(insert countless quotes here of your race hate)
RedCream = 99% fail, 1% lulz
Anon FTW

tl;dr: 

I DONT WANT TO HAVE SOCIALIZED MEDICARE BECAUSE I HATE BLACK PEOPLE

Well, #88, wouldn't it be nice if Americans suddenly stopped demonizing socialized medicine (or at least stop tolerating how their media and leaders demonize it) and actually expressed interest in the broad quality of Human life for once?  By "broad quality" I mean "not just defined by money".

There must be some sort of disconnect in our conversation since I have no doubt about the value of Human life as you repeatly point out.  But it's not up to me.  My political votes are worthless since all political choices are narrowed down to two anti-socialized-medicine candidates.  My monetary votes are also and already corrupted.  There are no "socialized medicine" hospitals that I could join, to underraise the revolution.

The environment of monetary and political force here is 99.9% monopolized by the Hypercapitalists who have big plans for the United States, but nowhere in those plans is there socialized medicine.  I don't know why you're pretending that that's not only a force to be reckoned with, but it's the ONLY FORCE in American socio-economics today.

Even worse, these Big Plans involve FURTHER privatization of American healthcare.  Note well from the Massachusetts model that they're doing the usual propaganda and distraction technique of making it look like they're implementing socialized medicine, but they're really only turning more and more of our wealth to the insurance companies (and other healthcare system elements) who own the politicians involved.

You continue to harp on what's going on in Europe, but that doesn't matter.  It doesn't matter how some vagrant is treated in Britain after an auto accident.  It doesn't matter if some Swiss citizen feels a pain in his abdomen, he goes to the local hospital immediately, finds he has an early-stage cancer node, and he's successfully treated within 30 days.  NONE OF THAT MATTERS ... since in America, their lives are nothing compared to the profits to be had in the current system of healthcare.  In America, it continues to be the truth that the vagrant is patched up and then turned back to the streets as soon as some profit-minded hospital administrator contrives some new excuse to do so.  In America, the abdomen-pain citizen does nothing since he can't afford to miss work for a little pain, or he can't afford to go to a clinic due to the fees; hence, his cancer worsens until it becomes obvious there's a real problem, and by that time the cancer is late-stage and he just dies anyway regardless of treatment.

#88, I'm only REPORTING the bad news -- I didn't make the news, I didn't create the circumstances of profits-over-lives, and I certainly don't support them.  But other than spend my time shooting insurance executives (which is an unworkable irony since I value Human life), what do you really expect me to do?  Shall I pull a $100B healthcare system out of my ass?  Shall I pull a floating nation out of my ass so I can finally enact sensible and Humanistic laws in that new society?  I don't have anything like those in my ass!

Well, how about emigrating?  Yes, that's what I'm personally planning on doing, for the long term.  It'll be very tough, but I plan on dying a SWISS citizen, not an American one.  (Becoming a Canadian is also an option, but Canucks obscenely don't like guns, and that's a huge problem for me.)

P.S.  You should pay strict attention to #89's comment since THAT sentiment is a significant factor in American life.  Lots of Whites don't want to pay for anything for Blacks since "nigger" is always just a breath away on their thin lips.  Again, I don't make that news; I'm just reporting it.  Learn the difference, willya?

>>90
If you could post pictures on here, I'd have one from the Sin City Marv vs Kevin fight, when he slaps the cuffs on him, and caption being "I gotcha ya little freak, let's see ya hop around now"

Have you only been reporting the news of your own incredible racist sentiments all over 4chan, namefag?  Reporting the news on how americans think Europe is all being thought controlled?  You've attacked socialized medicine over and over and over, and now you're saying that you're not attacking it, you're just pointing out how other forces are attacking it...  wow, I, and everyone else, totally didn't know that.  You bring such vital insight to these conversations.  Whatever would we do without you?

Sometimes it seemed as though you might have had a point you were getting across, but you just can't stick to anything before leaping away as soon as anyone gets close to pointing out you're wrong.

Fucking troll.

BTW, Sin City was a great series of comics and I greatly identify with that scene you mentioned ... just for other reasons.  Thanks for the visual, anyway.

I'm not attacking socialized medicine no matter how many times you accuse me of doing so.  My votes are used to wipe the asses of the elite who are very connected to the current way of delivering health care in America.  I find it shameful that the leading industrialized nation in the world leaves folks to die and suffer since it makes a few corporations more money that way.

BUT THERE'S NO SOLUTION IN AMERICA.  Anyone who suggests implementing REAL single-payer socialized medicine is as demonized as anyone is who dares to suggest we stop paying Israel.  As soon as say "socialized medicine", even the otherwise sane and well behaved folks start screaming "SOCIALIST PINKO COMMIE".  You can't make any headway since Americans value profits over Human life.  That's "Americans" -- people from all walks of life here in the US believe that the profit motive has supremacy over social decency.

Again, you keep thinking that reporting a fact is advocacy for that fact.  That's wrong as is so self evident.

The movement for healthcare in America is twofold:

1. More profiteering from ignoring the problem and enforcing a profit-aligned status quo, thus more death and suffering.  Within that environment, a tiny minority gets among the best healthcare to be found in the world.

2. More profiteering from implementing a Massachusetts Model of fooling the people with propaganda that only LOOKS LIKE socialized medicine.  In reality, the state aligns completely with the insurance companies and some real rape of the payer occurs.

AGAIN, I'm only reporting the news.  I don't want this form of healthcare for America.  I'm only 1 of a few million Americans who truly want single-payer, government-run, socialized medicine!  I'm OUTVOTED on this issue by a factor of 50 to 1.  So, what do you think I ought to do, Sparky?  Shoot the other 49?

>>92
yeah, I bet you're just dying for your tax dollars to go towards patching up niggers, hypocrite strawman fuck

Jackassfuckhole #93, the US Constitution recognizes a live birth as a citizen of the United States.  Nowhere in the amended version is there a specification for whether these citizens are niggers or not.  You're "projecting" ... projecting your virulent hatred of all things Negro.  A flaming Black cybercock should therefore enter your anus, and eject into your flashed-to-vapor guts about 12 pints of molten sodium (fresh from a reactor core's main cooling loop).

Hey Red, maybe >>93 is recognizing the Constitution's statements. He just feels that 2/5ths of these blacks should not be treated, as these parts simply do not count as citizens.

Plus, a cybercock doing that just isn't fun, you've essentially eliminated any chance of personal shame at being violated in such a way will register before death. Sloppy thinking, but I know you can do better.

Firstly, #95, I said "the amended version", which locks out that silly 5-count-as-3 specification.  I certainly saw that criticism coming, and I had no desire to take the sticky slap of it across MY chops, let me tell you.

The cybercock thing might be a good criticism.  Yet, there are details of which you are unaware.  Would it help if I told you that the cybercock was not autonomous, and there there was a live operator behind it?  Would you also accept as probable that the operator would be any ol' lil' nigger kid in an arcade, using the cybercock interface to enact the goatse-ing, while under the impression that Rape Whitey 2000™ was just a game?  A simple webcam pipes the operator's gleeful Blackface to a monitor setup especially for Jackassfuckhole #93 to enjoy ... well, before the molten salts convert his internal organs to dirty steam.

Not that I care to forcibly stick that argument in your craw, I am merely feeling like being especially pithy at the moment. I appreciate someone who, while I do not entirely condone your position, is capable of covering their ass in preparation for just such statements. Good show.

Speaking of asses and either the covering or vulnerability thereof, what type of restraining device is installed to say, prevent the victim from any number of cowardly acts of self-destruction to avoid a messy alkali death? Would there be a mechanical apparatus in place or does your plan call for hulking, dark men of Africa pinning #93 down, possibly with stun prods to forestall abovementioned self-destructive acts?

Well, that there's a bit of a problem, #97.  The cybercock is a highly technical piece of industrial apparatus, and due to the delivery medium, it is licensed as well.  It requires a specificity of care that's completely unknown to the ghettochimp.  Hence, a minimum of restraints is required, since no Black man is ever found near a piece of productive tech.  This has been the rule as I've observed it in my years of doing all kinds of tech work across America.  Tech belongs to the pasty white.

Once the restraints are in place (using a certified Physical Security Specialist), the finely-tuned cybercock uses a network of sensors to engage a set of 3D servomotors and actuators in order to line up with -- and mercilessly smash through -- the victim's tender rosebud.  I'm sure the victim would LIKE to choke down his own tongue to avoid such a fate, but the PSS requires about 6 months of training in restraints, so there's little risk of that happening.

While this does appear to be a truly miraculous piece of 21st century and finely crafted engineering, I pause to wonder; Is there a necessity to be aligned prior to the most unwelcome of intrusions? Save for the possibility of striking a nerve and rendering the victim incohate at best, unconscious at worst, I imagine that should any further implement of rectal rampage leading towards death fail, that simple septic shock from a ruptured colon would be acceptable. So long as the desired humiliation and not-so-gentle reminder of human mortality effect comes to be, smiles and handshakes should be given freely.

Merely an observation. Further queries are as follows: Has this device obtained its patent? Do you believe that this method of death should be used for capital offenses? What other caustic fluids would be acceptable, should sufficient amounts of molten sodium be lacking? Finally, have we shown enough distain to the opinions and halfhearted ramblings of those before us to allow this thread to die of terminal disinterest?

Actually, I think the device in question is a spinoff from another device used in the medical industry for colonic inspections.  Since death-by-lava-enema is an extremely restricted market, I don't believe a patent was accomplished.

There are similar instances of low-tech approaches to similar solutions throughout history.  One Roman soldier, for his punishment for some crime, was forced to imbibe molten silver ... which as you can imagine, killed him.  In fact, making prisoners drink molten metal has happened more than once, to wit:

http://www.folger.edu/html/newimages/INS0072.jpg

And introductory text for it:

"The widely circulated woodcut first published in Theodor de Bry's America Pars Quarta (1594), is surely the boldest restatement of the topos. In this strikingly graphic representation, probably crafted by the Huguenot artist Jacques Le Moyne de Mourges, vindictive Amerindians lay exemplary punishment upon captured Spanish soldiers, forcing them to drink the molten gold they so shamelessly coveted, literalizing their appetite for the precious metal in such a way as to provide the Iberians their poetical just deserts."

>>100
I really like how you can hold off on your blatant racism for one or two posts, but no more than that...  even in the face of your most favourite distraction, homo-erotic fancy involving gentlemen of colour.

Is this fine chan to believe that this can of reckless nonsense spews from someone who gives a damn about anything other than his vulgar, petty indulgences?  The same that feed all trolls...

You can't take sides in arguments which is why you never stick to a point.  Just another namefag

That you ever took any of that seriously, #101, shows that you fail.  Even a Jedi Youngling could whip your ass on that basis.