Libertarianism is a joke.

It's the 21st century version of laissez-faire. Instead of the government raping our asses, it's the corporations. I'd rather have some form of regulation in capitalism than none. Notice how the areas that resembles libertarianism politics the most are the areas that are leeching federal money and relies heavily on manufacturing jobs. Way to take care of your population.

>>119
The US is 100% free market.

>>121

No.

Copy Pasta is not delicious

>>122
Yes it is. Free trade within the constraints of justice. If no country can ever do anything 100% perfectly, then what the fuck do we classify them as? The US is 100% free market and the law is decided by the people through an efficient method of representation. Not 100% efficient because this isn't a fantasy world, but 100% as efficient as possible given the factors.

Go ahead, criticise me. I can just say that your criticisms are merely more factors which have already been coverred.

>>124

No.

100% free market = not yours.

>>125
100% free market? In your reality? It's more likely than you think!

>>126

you fail.

"lol, china has 100 free market given their constraints"
"lol, france is 100% free market given their constraints"

100% free market is utopian in it's essence, saying anything we have in the world today is 100% free market, is a lie. Sure a place may have a more free market condition than other places, but this doesn't make it 100% free market.

Furthermore claiming that the US is the one that has the conditions most like a free market, requires a bit more argumentation than just "AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!"

The US is a fucking socialst shithole. The market is not even 50% free. You guys suck... but less than anyone else.

Every person/country I don't like is socialist.

>>127
Why do you hate freedom?

I like how Libertarians operate. When Oil goes up to 60 a barrel like it has been lately, they act as if the producers in Texas aren't raising their prices as well and it's just the "sand niggers" making a buck.

Unregulated Capitalism + Inheritance = Monopoly + Huge Division of Labor resulting in two classes - Haves and Have Nots.

>>131
So you say that no country is ever a 100% free market, then you claim that the entire west is occupied by unregualted capitalists? Do you work with livestock? You're absolutely soaked in bull shit! Unregulated capitalism never occurs in reality, it is Karl Marx's wet dream. Where as free markets do occur, even if there can never be 100% perfect free markets where no one commits crime, they are the objective of many political parties.

Regulated Capitalism + Inheritance = (99.99999%) Free market + huge unity of all classes into people who both own property, work and have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

For some reason marx didn't mention this. I guess he hated freedom aswell.

>>132

I joined the thread a little late and I was not the one who claimed the United States or even any capitalist state is 100% unregulated. Nothing can ever achieve 100% free market, the state ALWAYS and will FOREVER ALWAYS maintain a role in economics.

In regulated capitalist systems, there will be people who strive to have 100% free markets. You have your Forbes, Gates, Rockefellers, Kennedys, Bushes and they will always try shilling their worth is justified. Never could they be so wrong in their assumptions.

When you say "Life Liberty and the "Persuit of Happiness," consider it was never the original intent of the statement. Happiness is property, and consider that property is determined by people with money. There exists freedom in America, but it will go to the highest bidder. You can claim that this is the innate quality of man, and you'll be wrong. For there exists the possibility of changing the system.

I'm going to make a generalization, but I feel it's justified. I bet you've been born into the right side in the division of labor, consider what it's like to not be in a good state of affairs. What exists for these people without proper education, without proper health care? Are we to forget them and act as if what you've been born into is entitled to you? That they were just unlucky, stupid or don't work hard enough?

Consider what the capitalists say when they talk about the "greater good," for their greater good is always them above others forever and always. (Viva Reaganomics)

>>130

I'm 133. I also wanted you to define Freedom. I hear it get thrown around a lot and I don't quite know what anyone means when they say Freedom. Is freedom just a concept? Or is it a tangible and real property?

Express and defend your answer.

Hey guise, I'm curious: Will the trolling ever stop?
I'm hanging around in /newpol/ for like 3 months now and still didn't see any serious politics debate.
Sure, this board is much further than any other politics forum but it's still a huge gay flame war.
I'd expect that in a thread with 134 posts the people would finally start talking about something worthwhile but the summary of the last 20 posts is: WE'RE GAY AND WE'RE HERE TO STAY

>>134
Well it's many things, I'll give you an example.

Not being executed for disagreeing with the government.

>>135

You're complaining about trolls so what do you do? Troll. That's swell thinking.

>>136

Self-preservation and having a right to dissent. You don't get that, even in America.

>>137

GTFO newbie.

/newpol/ should be invite only to keep those "LOL I GOTS POLITICIZED TODAY"-motherfuckers out.

>>139

Yes. You take politics as a delicate affair, and why should you be exposed to any pleb ramblings on the matter? Why you're a Political Science undergraduate and you're very informed on the matter. Why, we can't have a political discussion without you can we? You're the be-all-end-all of political discussions, you know the correct protocol and procedures when discussing politics.

Get out.

>>140

well said.

>>140
>>141
Same person. Proxy. etc..

>>138
Yes you do.

>>140

protip: Politics is serious business.
The deaf shouldn't write speeches.

>>140
SUCK MY NIGGER SHIT COCK OR VOTE FOR COMMUNISM STUPID FUCKING TWAT

>>140
>>145

Same person.
Proxy my ass.

preface:  libertarianism won't work because there are too many retards who would use their freedom to do dumb shit and there wouldn't be enough prisons/electric chairs for all of them.  libertarianism assumes the average person isn't a retard, but they are.  I don't know what would work, but it sure as shit isn't lolbertarianism.

that said, a shitload of people don't realize that the reason most big businesses are so big isn't because of capitalism, it's because of government subsidies that wouldn't exist under libertarianism.  also, the whole goddamn basis of the movement is to protect/empower the individual, not corporations.  read:

>The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power.

authoritarian includes corporations, fyi.  the only arguments thus far against it have been "you'll work 13 hour days" which is flat wrong, and "lol it's trendy", which isn't even an argument. 

>>33
that'd put him on the left 90 degree angle.  US libertarian party (and a lot of the trendy internet libs) are on the right side.  that isn't a tough concept.  even the dumbfucks over at wikipedia understand this.

>>146
>>145
Same person.

>>147
The state needs to run every element of everyone's lives because they are too stupid to make their own decisions amirite?

>>147
Many Chinese work 13 hour days and only make $5000 a year.

>>149
no, retard.  the state should be less involved than it is now, but if you went as far as libertarians wanted you to go, you'd have prison population problems.

read -> comprehend -> reply

it seems you missed a step, chief

>>151
libertarians who want prisons to be a part of life aren't libertarian enough yet.

>>147

If you think that Libertarians are against corporate authoritarianism, you're in the wrong party. They're for it, as they see the corporations power is limited to who buys their shit.

Wal*Mart is the perfect example.
Lolbertarian: Why do Socialists and COMMUNISTS haet Wal*Mart so much!?
Average Joe: Well, because they see their business practices as  wrong. They don't like how they treat their employees, and they don't like multi-national corporations working in conjunction with 3rd world governments to set up labor camps.
Lolbertarian: WELL IF THEY DON'T LIKE WAL*MART THEY SHOULDN'T SHOP THERE!

This is the error in the Libertarian thought. Wal*Mart offers commodities that the minimum wage laborer can buy at a lower cost than he or she would normally pay. "Personal responsibility" in this consumption model doesn't work -- Some people are limited in their options. Libertarians don't know the power of their own creation -- Tyrannical rule by monopolies and private ownership of the means of production = Fucks people without ownership of the means of production.

Once the means of production are secured, and inheritance incorporated, you get the same families in control over commodities and you get the same poor class working the same jobs to support the corporate families which then re-sell the commodities back to the poor.

The process of labor steals the time of the poor to produce a commodity that has surplus value. This value of labor is then re-sold for profit to the poor. Marxian translation = The rich get richer and the poor continue to be fucked. Why are the poor fucked? The means of production are in the hands of the capitalists.

>>151
That doesn't make any sense. First you say there is not enough regulation and now you are saying the state should be "less involved than it is".

Make your mind up. The choice is hardcore communism or libertarianism.

Go!

>>153
Let me guess, the rich = jews? gb2 stormfront

>>154

I didn't mention the word Jew once in my post. You're the one making associations.

>>155
You mentionned marx and fascism is directly derived from marx, so what do you want me to expect? It's like saying you think hitler is great and expecting me not to think that you are a socialist.

>>156

Godwin's Law, look it up.

I mentioned Marx, yes, but I did not mention fascism. Fascism is not "directly derived from Marx" it's derived from Leninism and Bolshevism through collectivization, Marx never explicitly mentions how to get to Communism but gives a 10 point guideline in the Manifesto. None of which state it should be done through fascism. And, if I were to think Hitler was great, that would not make me a socialist, it would make me a National Socialist, which has nothing to do with socialism. National Socialism is a fascism, not a socialism.

Jesus, this new fag is highly annoying.
You've already been told to lurk more and I urge you to do so, motherfucker.
But if you're serious about being a retard then go to /n/. The news board is the breeding ground, where the newbies grow up and learn basics.

>>158

EzGUSPp0 or me, CMSjR+fa? Regardless of who you're asserting is a "fag" and "annoying," you're not really contributing anything. You haven't made any posts in the thread with your current ID and I don't even know who you're talking to. Maybe you should heed your own suggestion?

>>159

Oh, *I* am the one who's not contributing anything.
Heh, yeah.
Since you suck at understanding text I'll make it plain and simple:
You is stupid newbie.
You is writing bullisht.
Your bullshit was written a thousand times before you by a thousand other yous.
You better shut up and learn.
If you desire to repeat what the other thousand monkeys said then do this in /n/.