What does capitalism have to do evil?

I believe it is my duty to case mocking liberals for my own entertainment and reveal what you are incapable of thinking without a person of average intelligence to aid you. That's right, I'm about to prove you wrong and I am not claiming to be an "intellectual" like some arrogant smug cunt, I'm using it to prove you are an idiot which is the truth. Also I am going to tell it to you straight, I'm not going to attempt social engineering and come up with some nonsensical bullshit in order to hide my true intentions which does nothing but insult the intelligence of the people exposed to it.

Capitalism isn't the cause of all the problems you attribute to it. Capitalism is just an economic system with as many problems with corruption as communism or any other economic system.

It's elementary logic.

A occurs in the presence of B. Does this mean B is the cause of A? It does not.

The real cause of corruption and immoral behaviour are systems which permit people to do so and in which motivation to enforce justice is utilised to a high degree. Both capitalism and communism fail to do this in comparison to the free market, which is a completely seperate philosophy and has no place in your over-simplified abstract almost child-like view of the world.

You are idiots.

>liberals
>Capitalism isn't the cause of all the problems you attribute to it.

You are a fool and a simpleton.
Go find a communist to argue with because you clearly don't know shit about liberalism

>>1
...and read a damn book

>>1
I believe it is my duty to make a damn fool of myself

I'm about to prove you wrong
--prove liberals wrong about what?

mocking liberals for my own entertainment ... I'm not going to attempt social engineering
--seems like a contradiction, but whatever

Capitalism is just an economic system with as many problems with corruption as communism
--You're attempting to seem reasonable here by loosening the leash... communism is by nature far more corrupt

capitalism ... in comparison to the free market, which is a completely seperate philosophy
--No, It's not a 'seperate philosophy', it's ideology, and they are one and the same

over-simplified abstract
--oxymoron. lern 2 inglish

>>1

I took the liberty of cleaning about your post so everyone can better understand where you're coming from:

I ... is ... arrogant smug cunt, ...an idiot which is the truth.
I am going to ... come up with some nonsensical bullshit ...
which does nothing but insult the intelligence of the
people exposed to it.

q-q-q-quintuple post

>>2
>>3
Everything I said applies to liberals. I read many books, including "The Leviathan" by Thomas Hobbes, "Essays on " by John Stuart Mill and "A critique of pure reason" by Immanuel Kant. Which line of thought do you believe I am unaware of?

>>4
You believe it is your duty to admit your argument cannot withstand debate so you might aswell not bother. I gladly accept your admittion of defeat. Maybe some day you will grow up.

>>5
1: "Capitalism isn't the cause of all the problems you attribute to it."
2: It is not a contradiction because whatever similarities beween mocking liberals and social engineering there are, it is all in the past now.
3: I never said liberals were communist, therefore I am not loosenning the leash.
4: Anyone who is above borderline retarded is capable of extrapolating from that elementary piece of logic I presented the reason why capitalism AND COMMUNISM are over-simplified childish ways of presenting the world. Ideologies, such as capitalism and communism, are based on a few lines of thought and followers develop an apologetic attitude to the world around them in order to back up their ideal. Philosophies and sciences, such as free market economics and theoretical physics, are based on gatherring large amounts of information and analysing them to draw conclusions which are not set and almost perptually tested and examinned to ensure their accuracy and to attempt to discover more about the natural world.
5: Over-simplified means to simplify something to the point where you leave out important information. Abstract means an idea which is based on a few principles, which does not apply in empirical situations such as the real world.

>>6
You took the liberty of ignoring my argument out of fear. Which you are free to do, but you and I both know it proves nothing and you're still an idiot.

>>7
Wut.

>>8


Everything I said applies to liberals. I read many books,
including "The Leviathan" by Thomas Hobbes, "Essays on " by
John Stuart Mill and "A critique of pure reason" by Immanuel
Kant. Which line of thought do you believe I am unaware of?

Liberalism, Capitalism, perhaps Communism, as you haven't listed Marx and Engels.
Obviously, you are a reactionary american, so perhaps you are simply confused and are thinking of the whole 'New Deal' FDR thing. But really, Fox news isn't the best source of information on liberals or liberalism. If your going to go around shooting your mouth off, at least use a more appropriate word, like leftists, or more specifically, socialists.

free market economics

economic liberty is a founding principle of liberalism, but not being a liberal myself, or of any ideological bent, I don't really care.

capitalism <--> free market economics
ever heard of Adam Smith? Surely if your so well read, something as simple as the Wealth of Nations is already parked in your bookshelf.
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/3300

theoretical physics
what does this have to do with anything? Did you just tuck that in there in a vain attempt to seem smarter? I can do that to. Quantum Mechanics. Zero-Sum Games. Einstein-Rosen-Podolsky Bridge.

Abstract means an idea which is based on a few principles,
which does not apply in empirical situations such as the real
world.

I see you can at least use a dictionary

capitalist hookers charge more :(

>>10
but they use soap.

>>9
I am a reactionary? To what? Your ideals?

You are not the first person to ignore my arguments, your only virtue are the new refreshing ways in which you slip by them.

You do care about liberalism or you would not be talking to me. You are free to gb2 /d/ and fap any time you want, yet you come here to discuss politics.

Adam Smith's idea of the free market is nothing like Marx's idea of capitalism.

Yes, I do use a dictionary. Since you haven't mentionned anything else concerning the difference between a philosophy and idealism, does this mean you agree with me that there is a difference between the philosophy and science of free market economics and the idealism of communism?

I don't need to have read the bible in Hebrew to criticise christianity and I don't need to spend 3 years studying PHD sociology in order to criticise Liberalism, Capitalism, Communism, Marx or Engels. If marxist intellectuals are so superior why is their argument so weak that they must avoid debate?

I am a reactionary and a scientist. I both resist your attempts at social engineering which are dishonest and restrictive in nature and compose my own opinions based on the facts with emphasis on discussing my ideas without restriction with others. I accept criticism of my ideas, but so far it seems you are pre-occupied with criticism of my person.

>>12

You do care about liberalism
You keep trying to accuse me of being a liberal/communist/godknowswhat.
I am not. I merely want to vomit every time I see the angry armchair ideologue go off on a rant about something he doesn't understand, or care to learn about. I assumed you were one based on the content of >>1

I am a reactionary? To what? Your ideals?
There you go. The ideals you think I have anyway.

ignore my arguments
You simply haven't MADE any arguments. I'm not even sure you have any kind of goal here beside trolling libtards and moonbats.

Adam Smith's idea of the free market is nothing like Marx's idea of capitalism.
Yea Gods! Marx was a fucking COMMUNIST, not a CAPITALIST.
CAPITALISM =/= COMMUNISM
Karl MARX: communist
Adam SMITH: capitalist
Marx and Smith are polar opposites.

>Yes, I do use a dictionary.
look up:
COMMUNISM
LIBERALISM
CAPITALISM
FREE MARKET

does this mean you agree with me that there is a [critically major] difference
between the ... [soft] science of free market economics and the idealism of communism?

This much is common sense that only a fool would argue against. Even fools could still be right about something though.

I don't need to have read...
I don't need to spend 3 years studying PHD...
Agreed, but PLEASE, at the very least make an effort to understand what it is your arguing about.

If marxist intellectuals are so superior
why is their argument so weak that they must avoid debate?
Because they make false assumptions about human nature, much like libertarian socialists and anarcho-capitalists, only to a slighty less embarrassing extent (but only very slightly).

I am a scientist...
I assume you have some degree of some kind then.. in what? Where did you get it? Can you prove this?
Perhaps i am wrong and this is merely a self-identification as a believer in evidence based reasoning, and not another attempt at grand-standing.

compose my own opinions based on the facts
what facts? were you home-schooled? I'm beginning to think so. I don't wish to waste my time, trying to help you understand.

criticism of my person.
I don't know anything about you, I can only possibly criticize the messages that you yourself have written.

liberalism =/= communism
liberalism =/= socialism
liberalism is an ideology supporting free markets, the foundation of capitalism.
communism is anti-capitalist.
socialism is something like a halfway point between both.

With this information, read over >>1 again.
See how you failed to make anything resembling a valid argument.
If you can't absorb these concepts, my only recourse will be to move on and just assume that i have been wasting my time trying to converse with a self-diagnosed aspie.

>>13
I think he means that "capitalism" as defined by Marx differs from Smith's idea of a free market. It's been a while since I read Marx but his definition of capitalism had something to do with workers being paid less than the value of what they produce and them thus being alienated from their work.

Also, when dealing with Americans you should know that they use different definitions for political ideologies. I never bothered to learn them all, but in America liberalism = socialism.

Socialism = cat's eating shit

But seriously, socialism is why America sucks.

>>14
when Marx was alive some of the problems he mentions were real, specifically wage slavery. Legal unions have mostly ended this practice in developed countries (today, one can argue they ask for more than employers should be expected to give).

I'm aware of the US confusion regarding ideologies, but the OP is just plain ignorant, beyond the pale. The last paragraph in >>1 is evidence of this.

Communism just doesn't work because of human nature; making it so good for itself. If a people has a chance to not work but still get ends mean a large chunk will nor work. Of course after Lenin's death communism wasn't communism anymore, which was just fascism. Todays socialism isn't 1890s socialism even, today is basically take care of the people with healthcare and such, not "change people on by one". You really can't have a large scale society without some form of capitalistic system. 

>>17
I agree. I think Marx served a purpose in that he highlighted the plight of the workers in a newly industrialized society. But he also erroneously assumed that these conditions would worsen to a point were the working class would be forced to revolt. Instead we got improvement and normalization.

And yes, the OP is ignorant. He is also obviously fighting a perceived enemy rather than an actual one. I'm never quite sure how to respond to people who use liberalism and communism synonymously. Part of me says "contest", part of me says "conform" and part of me just can't bother. Good luck though.

>>18
Agreed with everything, but...

You really can't have a large scale society
without some form of capitalistic system.

Capitalism is a product of the industrial revolution, and large scale societies existed before then. Money and trade all existed in the ancient world, the people just didn't have the inalienable rights that we enjoy now. Thanks in part to the great thinkers and leaders of the 18th, and 19th centuries. Capitalism is a part of this, allowing freedom of enterprise and such, which strengthen economies greatly.

Communism, where it was applied, deprived people of these rights, severely retarding economic development in countries that adopted it.

Fear and opposition to Bolshevism influenced many right-wing thinkers into opposing all state influence in private enterprise. Privatization and deregulation is an ongoing trend which may be economically beneficial, but can result in social issues which many did not foresee, or currently dismiss or ignore.

One of the problems today, which is rampant in the USA, is the interference of commercial and industrial enterprises in the democratic system, through campaign contributions and back room quid-pro-quo deals.

I imagine this is probably what American liberals object to, which can easily come off as anti-capitalist (and by association communist or socialist).

Sorry for reciting the economic history of the world there.
I just don't know when to stop

>>20
"Capitalism is a product of the industrial revolution, and large scale societies existed before then. Money and trade all existed in the ancient world, the people just didn't have the inalienable rights that we enjoy now."

SO IF WE GET RID OF PEOPLE'S INALIENABLE RIGHTS WE CAN HAVE A SYSTEM OTHR THAN CAPITALISM AND IMPLEMENT COMMUNISM AMIRITE???

If you could get rid of them they wouldn't be inalienable.

>>22
Spoiler: People can abuse other people's rights and the founding fathers knew this. Either their intelligence was below which that is needed for them to be able to construct a sentence or they were using it in a different context.

You prefer to think the founding fathers were all vegetables drooling over the floor as you are an active hardcore communist, but that doesn't make it true does it.

>>23
HOW DO YOU KNOW I'M AN ACTIVE HARDCORE COMMUNIST? WHO SENT YOU?

>>24
I am just another /b/tard. I am in no way involved with the NSA.

But capitalism is evil, because it's all about maximizing profit at any cost. Thus, it will inherantly cut corners and sacrifice worker welfare to achieve these ends. Not that any other system is any better.

and yet communism is so concerned for the workers welfare that they kill, imprision, exile, torture, and enslave billions. Are really sure what evil is? Inherantly cut corners? would you care to compare US mining deaths with uh say China? As a matter of fact that evil capitalist system works very well to protect workers welfare compared with any other system.

>>27
meet
>>26
>>>>>>>>>>>Not that any other system is any better.

You can't read.

capitalism is evil, because it's all about maximizing profit at any cost

sounds more more like fascist corporatism.
Regulation and labor laws exist to prevent widespread abuses

Unfortunately..
many right-wing thinkers ... opposing all state influence in private enterprise
One of the problems today ... is the interference of ... enterprises in the democratic system, through campaign contributions and back room quid-pro-quo deals.

>>29

"sounds more more like fascist corporatism.
Regulation and labor laws exist to prevent widespread abuses"

yes, but they don't exist at the will of capitalism.

Capitalism is bad and I'm sorry to sound so cliche. Certainly in the case of the UK, where I live the transition from socialism to capitalism hasn't benefitted us.

The way I see it, yes now we're wealthier than ever before but what do we actually have to show for it? I have to pay tens times more for my house because everyone else is equally richer, and we now officially work more hours than any other nation in the EU. I'd say that our quality of life has never be worse.

most boring thread eva!

>>13
The dictionary isn't representative of the people who call themselves liberals. Liberals are pathologically desperate to implement social engineering and socialist policies and use exactly the same language. They do not support the free market and constantly claim that it is the same as capitalism which is a term commonly used by socialists and communists. Liberalism has gone beyond it's definition in the dictionary to the point where many now refer to "dictionary" liberals as classical liberals since it has been a long time since liberals cared more about civil liberties and rejected marxian fantasy of turning a capitalism into a socialism and then into a communism and the fact that they are not living in an evil kkkapitali$m, but a succesful free market economy often with extensive welfare institutions voted in democratically without the need for socialism.

I suppose I could ignore all these facts hypothetically if you want, but I can't assure you that it won't crop up over and over. Unlike you my mind is not used to ignoring reality you see. I suppose that is why you refer to yourself as an intellectual!

>>33
You are a fool and a charlatan.

You haven't stated any facts about anything. You've just decided you have authority over the whole of the English language, and changed the definition of liberalism to that of communism. I suppose I can do that too then.

I now proclaim MYSELF as czar of the whole of the English language, past, present and future.

The "free market" is now synonymous with "Nazism", BECAUSE I SAID SO AND YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING AND I AM RIGHT AND ALL FACTS IN YOUR FAVOR ARE PART OF THE SINISTER NEW WORLD ORDER CONSPIRACY.
You are on a totalitarian quest to destroy individual freedoms, succeed all power to the state, and ship jews, blacks, arabs and all the "Mud Races", as you call them, off to concentration camps.
You could ignore the facts that i totally did not just make up myself, but I am always right because I KEEP REPEATING LIES OVER AND OVER AGAIN UNTIL IT BECOMES TRUE or people get board and go home. I am omniscient and above god and you are CUBELESS EVIL BASTARD! Educated Stupid!

>>34
I merely stated the facts. If you don't like reality you can always commit suicide. Ever thought of that?

In America liberalism = communism and libertarianism = classical liberalism.

>>35
>>36
You stated no facts, you made them up. Your name is Joseph McCarthy and you are illiterate.

>>37
Look at the Democratic and the Libertarian Party , dumbass.
Libertarians: "Free market is good. Government is bad."
Democrats: "Capitalism is teh evil!!! Let government think for you!"

>>38
See.
>>5
>>29
>>34
I have already dealt with you. And leveled what ever half-assed point you were trying to felch out your ass.
I don't give a shit about worthless American parties, especially ones that are insignificant as libertarians.

>>39

Dude, are you kinda retarded or something?
Compare US liberals with european liberals.
In the US, people claim to be liberals although they have a totally different view
and because of this the meaning of this word shifted for Americans.

>>40
Obviously, but american liberals still are NOT communists.
dipshit.

>>41
Yes, they're just socialists but some people like the free market very much and thus they're exaggerating.

called hyperbole btw

"capitalism is evil, because it's all about maximizing profit at any cost"

Actually, Adam Smith deals directly with this issue in The Wealth of Nations:

"But the rate of profit does not, like rent and wages, rise with the prosperity and fall with the decline of the society. On the contrary, it is naturally low in rich and high in poor countries, and it is always highest in the countries which are going fastest to ruin..."

LOL LIBERALS NEED TO SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU ARE NOT INTELLECTUALS YOU ARE WHINING EMO FAGS

I think all the posters need to realize something
1.Their has been no pure forms of communism, all communists hitherto have been more like extreme national socialists. Pure Communism takes natural evolution of soceitys, you can't force communism , because there will be a backlash.
2.Communism or Syndicalism works, it just doesn't happen. Capitalism works in a way which raises the standard of living for all people, which results in either less work hours or less domestic,travel,etc. hours, this results in more free time, which results in better people.
3. Both Capitalism and Communism take faith to believe in, both sides ignore the bad and promote the good.
4. social liberals are not stupid, just immature. They see the government as their parents and all do is say "I want more money" and then bitch about how "The government is oppressing me"
sounds like a teenager right?
Republicans and Democrats= immature and idealistic
Libertarian= realizes social contract and actually reads

>>45
Who here claimed to be a liberal?
Who here claimed to be an intellectual?
I think it's very likely you have ADD or Dyslexia.
...if not, you must be a mentally incompetent self-diagnosed Aspie. GB2 your hugbox.

>>46
I believe ANYONE who defines themselves by ideology or political party membership is idealistic, foolish and ultimately untrustworthy.
To embrace a cause, to grow fond or spiteful, is to lose one's balance, after which, no action can be trusted.

Communism or Syndicalism works, it just doesn't happen.
What's that supposed to mean? How do you know it works if it doesn't happen?

social liberals are not stupid, just immature. They see the government as their parents and all do is say "I want more money" and then bitch about how "The government is oppressing me"
Is Europe an oppressive place?

>>49
What's that supposed to mean? How do you know it works if it doesn't happen?
1. Working class is too stupid to revolt
2. Working class is too lazy to revolt

Is Europe an oppressive place?
Lol, yes
you can't say racial slurs, there are a superfluous of cameras, and you can't deny the holocaust, oh and those whiny muslims aren't making it any better.

>>50

the camera thing is mainly in the UK, not the rest of europe.

>>50
1. Working class is too stupid to revolt, 2. Working class is too lazy to revolt
That doesn't answer my question. To wit: how do you know those systems work if they don't happen?

Lol, yes
Maybe. The UK is the place with a lot of cameras, but it's also a lot closer economically to the US than the rest of Europe. Germany, for example, has privacy laws that make most of the rest of the world look pissant.

Now, what about free education, medical, and welfare? Keeping people in the dumps isn't a form of oppression? It's harder to save up for a degree when you're earning minimum wage.

whiny muslims aren't making it any better.
Isn't this the board full of "lol nigger" or "go home beaner"?

I'm living in Europe and I say it's full of shit.
If you're not a European, then kindly STFU please.
Especially Germany is a fucked up place.
Education: horrible
Medical: personnel is on strike like 24/7 because gov can't pay them
Economy: national debt is extremely high and gets higher every fucking second while most companies outsource to low wage countries like Poland
Welfare: gov can't pay but people want more and more money
All parties up to mid-left want to cut on welfare while the people are rallying for each Euro.

>>53
Sounds bad.

Have you lived anywhere else for comparison though?

Also, elaborate a bit on what's wrong with the education system.

>>54
The only country I lived in long enough to make an acceptable comparison is the USSR.
Well, most countries are a paradise when compared to that shithole.

As for the education system lets just say that yearly only 10% get a high school degree
and only 20% qualify to study at an university/college.
But those are still too many thus some states introduced tuition fees this year.

>>52
The working class is to satisfied to revolt.

>>56
How do you know those systems work if they don't happen?

If there has never been a working X, how the fuckity fuck do I know that X actually works? Wishes and fairy dust?

But since you your brought it up, if the working class is too satisfied to revolt, then what's the problem? They're satisfied.

>>57
that WAS my point, dickhead.

>>57
I can do the same as you...

If everyone would be nice to each other the world would be a better place! MY SYSTEM MUST WORK BECAUSE IT NEVER HAPPENNED YOU FUCKING CUNT

I can't believe how easily liberals get sucked into communist propoganda dating back from the 60s.

>>59
Say the same to me, what? I have made no claims about anything. Do you have problems tracing up a thread?

>>58
I'm not sure how >>56 was supposed to answer the question, but okay.

>>61
You admitted you were stupid here.
"How do you know those systems work if they don't happen?"

>>62
Really? Explain how.

>>63
You think the fact that something hasn't happenned is proof that it will work.

>>63
Haha, I can't believe you didn't notice that.

>>64,65
I guess you two have a serious reading comprehension disability. Here, let me help you. This is what I wrote:

How do you know those systems work if they don't happen?
If there has never been a working X, how the fuckity fuck do I know that X actually works?
How you get from that to "You think the fact that something hasn't happenned is proof that it will work." is absolutely amazing. Go see a doctor.

Next you'll tell me up is down, and right is left.

>>64
>>65

is the same guy
look at the ID dammit

>>66
You can't be that stupid, you must be trolling. You're not going to get me to maticulously explain it out for you.

>>67
Uh, duly noted. :(

>>69
Good. Stop being mean. It's mean.