Communism

Why do people in the U.S. think communism is so horrible?

so what have we learned form this thread, well communism and democracy don't work, nor dose fascism so i guess its back to anarchy

Communism IS horrible.
You must have slept in the history class if you don't know why.
Communists are murderers and they hate freedom.
Their goal is world domination and it has to be achieved by a world revolution which means that everybody who doesn't like this BS has to be murdered.
It just doesn't work if not all mankind give up on being humans.
I don't know about you, but I like my freedom to think and say what I want.
Also they want the dictatorship of the proletariat aka the dictatorship of the dumb.
The working class consists of people who failed at school.
Our society works like this: if you learn much at school and study in an university you get a well paid job but if you fail you get a shitty job.
So all the people who failed at education and know shit about pretty much anything shall rule the world? Yeah, right..
Look at how communism started in Russia, China or any other commie country in the world:
Some asshole told a bunch of farmers a lot of lies about wealth and power and they were like "You're right, I don't want to work! I want to be as rich as the land owner!".
Same goes for the factory workers.
Because they were promised a good life, they did what the commie cocksucker told them and killed their superiors.
Now, if you don't think that this is something bad you gotta be a complete dick.
If those guys weren't illiterate fucks, they would have known that a prestigious economists proved that planned economy doesn't work.
Well, they didn't and so many of them straved to death.
Serves them right, those murderous bastards.
All commies say that there were no real communist countries and those who claimed to be didn't represent real communism but this is BS.
It's like a religion: They ignore science and facts.
Instead of reading lies about capitalism in commie propaganda flyers they rather should read some serious books on economy.

>>82
please tell me this sarcastic

>>80
Note the distinction between direct democracy and representative democracy. Then you should understand my argument. I'm not sure what you mean by

"All democracy is divisional, i cant vote in american elections and you cant vote in us elections."..

Do you mean that we can't vote because we are from different countries?


Auschwitz doesn't compare to the worst even China has to offer let alone Abu Ghraib. At least in Abu Ghraib the people imprisonned were fully grown men who were related to the insurgency. In Auschwitz not even the children were spared. In fact some would find what you have said to be deeply offensive, I don't particularly care because this is 4chan, but you should know better supposedly being a bleeding heart liberal.


I still think my original reason for not paying him any attention is sound. He said

"liberty is the liberty to exploit the proletariat"

as if liberty is somehow harmful which it is now and backed up his malice with several quotes that I have come across. If he said

"liberty prevents the oppression of the proletariat, but does not prevent the exploitation of the proletariat"

I would have read the communist manifesto years ago. He seems obsessed with the idea that liberty is just an trick by evil capitalists when it isn't. It is not. This belief invalidates this man as a "genius", marxism's humanity and marx's rationality.

"Scientists biased by their political ideology is always a sad sight though..."
What political ideology would that be?

Learn about Communism - also known as Church of Faggotry - the american way: With a comic book!

http://www.authentichistory.com/images/1960s/treasure_chest/cover_01.html

>>82
sup McCarthy.

>>82
go back to bed, McCarthy.

>>84
Yes. I meant: "All democracy is divisional, i cant vote in american elections and you cant vote in swedish elections." Sorry, must've been drunk when i wrote that. But i understand now what you mean. In any case, do you you agree that council communism at least in theory is democratic, and that therefore communism is not an opposite of democracy?

"Auschwitz doesn't compare to the worst even China has to offer let alone Abu Ghraib."
I never said it did. What i meant was that you seemed to imply that abu ghraib was not a problem since china had several abu ghraibs and i tried to prove the absurdity of such a claim by st ating that one auschwitz is bad enough, regardless of why it is in existence.
And btw, there at least has been children incarcerated in both abu ghraib and guantanamo and god knows about the rest of the camps.

"I still think my original reason for not paying [Marx] any attention is sound."
He argues for the view of how the liberty as proposed by the liberals of his time was empty of any social changing potential. I haven't read those arguments so i cant say how good they are, but i can at least say that it is founded on more than just hatred towards some ideology. But i can at least agree in principle that any ideology that is liked by the ruling class is something the working class should be highly suspicious about.
And, if Darwin would have thought that white men were inferior to native Americans, would that mean that there were no use in reading "On the Origin of Species"? And should one not read about Jean-Baptiste Lamarcks theories because they have been proven wrong?

"What political ideology would that be?"
Anti-Communism. Popular in the US and among far right wingers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Communism 

>>88
Communism "can" be democratic if you put it under a democratic system, but not everyone believes creating heaven on earth is that simple or even possible and you can't force people to live in orwellian communes where leadership, families and personal property is seen as evil otherwise you'd just end up like the Taliban.

Abu Ghraib doesn't match to Auschwitz. It just doesn't. Stop trying to mix up prisons where violence got out of hand and mass genocide. Also you need proof before you can justify believing in things, I never approved of the crimes committed in Abu Ghraib. No matter how much you blow crimes committed in democracy out of proportion they will never match the crimes committed by communists.

If you can explain to me why in principle the working class should be suspicious of an idea purely because some members of ruling class approve of it (did the ruling class of France circa 1750 approve of liberty?) I will read all of Marx's works cover to cover. If a ruling class person once said "2+2=4", does it mean "2+2=5"? He didn't just criticise liberty, he attacked it.

I would tolerate Darwin's few and inconsequential incorrect ideas in favour of his good ideas, even Lamarck's errors are worthy of analysis to find his flaws in reasonning, however Marx's mistake is of such a magnitude of absurdity that it derails all of his works and makes inquiries into his possible psychological problems more fruitful than examining his reasonning.

“The practical application of the right of liberty is the right of private property… The right of property is, therefore, the right to enjoy one’s fortune and to dispose of it as one will; without regard for other men and independently of society. It is the right of self-interest. This individual liberty, and its application, form the basis of civil society. It leads every man to see in other men, not the realization but rather the limitation of his own liberty.”

Liberty
1. freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.
2. freedom from external or foreign rule; independence.
3. freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, etc.; power or right of doing, thinking, speaking, etc., according to choice.
4. freedom from captivity, confinement, or physical restraint: The prisoner soon regained his liberty.

I don't think it is very likely that Marx mixed up the term "property laws" with the idea of liberty. This mixing of definitions is typical of the propoganda I see which convinces people that dictatorship (of the "proletariat") is good and liberty is evil. What I don't understand is why people like you have been exposed to the fact that communism is just machiavellian populism still see reason to believe in it. I know faith is an admirable quality, but can't you put your faith in a proper religion like Christianity?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Communism lists 6 types of anti-communism. Can you be more specific?
1 Conservative and traditionalist anti-communism
2 Fascist anti-communism
3 Nationalist anti-communism
4 Liberal and individualist anti-communism
5 Anarchist anti-communism
6 Socialist anti-communism

I like pineapples.

>>89
"Communism "can" be democratic if you put it under a democratic system, but not everyone believes creating heaven on earth is that simple or even possible and you can't force people to live in orwellian communes where leadership, families and personal property is seen as evil otherwise you'd just end up like the Taliban."
Ok I admit, when communism tries to force itself on others it's just acting like a religion. In fact my superiors hate democracy for this very reason, they just can't win any arguments in rational debate.

"Abu Ghraib doesn't match to Auschwitz. It just doesn't. Stop trying to mix up prisons where violence got out of hand and mass genocide. Also you need proof before you can justify believing in things, I never approved of the crimes committed in Abu Ghraib. No matter how much you blow crimes committed in democracy out of proportion they will never match the crimes committed by communists."
I agree, democracy is certainly better than tyranny. Communism claims it can eliminate all crime and make the world heaven on earth and I keep on comparing this ludicrous idea with the fact that democracy doesn't eliminate all crime all the time like you admitted.

"If you can explain to me why in principle the working class should be suspicious of an idea purely because some members of ruling class approve of it (did the ruling class of France circa 1750 approve of liberty?) I will read all of Marx's works cover to cover. If a ruling class person once said "2+2=4", does it mean "2+2=5"? He didn't just criticise liberty, he attacked it."
I can't. I was attempting to justify ignorance, but even you cannot deny that people aren't always logical, they do deserve blame though.

"I would tolerate Darwin's few and inconsequential incorrect ideas in favour of his good ideas, even Lamarck's errors are worthy of analysis to find his flaws in reasonning, however Marx's mistake is of such a magnitude of absurdity that it derails all of his works and makes inquiries into his possible psychological problems more fruitful than examining his reasonning."
You don't have to read marx if you don't want to. It's 100s of years old and yeah, if he had any ideas they were far and few between and picked up by now. I don't think he came up with anything new.

"I don't think it is very likely that Marx mixed up the term "property laws" with the idea of liberty. This mixing of definitions is typical of the propoganda I see which convinces people that dictatorship (of the "proletariat") is good and liberty is evil. What I don't understand is why people like you have been exposed to the fact that communism is just machiavellian populism still see reason to believe in it. I know faith is an admirable quality, but can't you put your faith in a proper religion like Christianity?"
At first I thought you didn't realise marx was being specific and clearly meant liberty as in property laws, but now I realise the amount of volume he put in to property law pretty much saying the same thing as in that quote it is obvious he was trying to demonise liberty. I see the logical error now. Liberty is just about the elimination of tyranny, if this requires improving equality then you don't need communism to do that. If marx was a genius it was in breaking down democracy in the name of eliminating tyranny.

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Communism lists 6 types of anti-communism. Can you be more specific?"
I admit I was demonising anti-communism earlier, I was being an extremist who thinks the world consists of us or them. There is more than one side to this story, not everyone who disagrees with communism is an evil capitalist with a top hat and monocole supping on a cuban cigar whilst dining in opulent splendour. What was I thinking??

I guess in a way I've already admitted to being an extremist, I'm too proud to admit it outright lol. It is rare to find someone who you think is more intelligent than you. Nice talking to you.

Jesus
This thread is made of two idiots.
The first one suffers form mental retardation and the other dude still tries to talk sanity into the communist moron.

(1st time in this thread)
>>92
Agreed. They don't seem to realize that 'communism' as a political system is different from communism as an economic system.

You could very easily, in a political system like in the US, have a system of taxation and welfare to implement a communist economy. Or, you could have what China and other Asian countries have done, and implement fascism with a "Marxist" sticker on it to attract common support.

>>93
I heard, during the cultural revolution, they convinced 100000s of peasants to force tapioca up their ass as a joke.

>>90


Pineapples are fucking awesome. This is Pineapple Thread now guys, fuck communism.

Indeed, fuck communism.

>>95
Can it be a tapioca thread too?

>>97
i thought tapioca was communist?

Like, 100,000,000 People died because of communism!!!!(fact)
Hitler only killed 6 million JEWZ FFS!!!

>>98
Not if it's sold by a capitalist.

>>99
are they in the tapioca?

I pour tapioca pearls into my tea.
Does this make me communist?
It cannot do.
For it makes me weeaboo.

Like, 100,000,000 People died because of communism!!!!</fact>

no.
first up, there haven't been any communist countries to do that killing (they weren't even so socialist either)
Second up, a lot of the deaths in that figure were due to famine.
Third: that number is way too big.

wikit

Communism is NOT good!

>>103
that number is way too low
stalin and mao killed together 150 millions
wikit faggot
communism will die out raising education standards in the world
enjoy your last days of oppression and murder

communism will die out *due to* raising education standards in the world

i also add that i hope you will die for your hatred towards humanity
inhuman doings can go without punishment

falun dafa and communists: both nuts, both need to calm down..... at least the Dalai Lama was tamed by having to flee overseas

hello?
anyone home?

>>103
Is that the 50th time someone has posted "COMMUNIST COUNTRIES WEREN'T COMMUNIST, THERE HAS NEVAR BEAN A TRUE COMMUNISM"?

Spoiler: There has never been a true anything.

Thus political ideologies should be judged by what their extremists do. You'll never hear of a libertarian extremist supporting execution without trial or government control over the free press, thus if a country is ruled by libertarian extremists no tyranny can take over. However you hear shrieks of happiness from communists when tyrants like Chavez are given the power to rule by decree.

Go figure.

>>109
no tyranny but the corporate one.


spoilers: there can be tyrannies no matter what the ideology.

>>110
"There has never been a true anything." directly implies "there can be tyrannies no matter what the ideology.", why did you think I didn't know that? Are you really incapable of thinking beyond the words in that copy of the communist manifesto rammed up your rectum?

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

Come on think! Think!! You can do it!

>>111

but you were mxiign things up in your post, first stating how no tyranny would happen under libertarianism, and then how it is happening under communism. Which of course is true since one is theoretical and the other is attempted to be practiced. Then you say i'm a retard for pointing out that it would be possible to have a sort of tyranny under libertarianism? you should just relax a bit, if you don't like people adding to/correcting what you write, maybe you should be a bit more clear and specific.

ps. i'm not a communist. 

>>112
Well your idea of tyranny is someone owning a lot of money so I was putting it into context.

In the first instance I was talking about institutionalised tyranny. Where the govenrmetn controls the press and kills anyone who disagrees with it.

In the second instance I was referring to traces of tyranny as in the fact that not all crime and corruption in a democracy is eliminated.

My post was completely specific, it is just that extremists get so psychotically angry they fill their pants and feel the need to nitpick. Like you.