any dems in the house think that...

hillary clinton is crazy? the whole flag burning issue and her cooperation with jack thompson comes to mind.

i liked clinton, but his wife doesn't seem like she'd automatically be very good.

shes nuts

I believe that she is (quite literally) made of fail.

Her candidacy in 2008 would virtually ensure a Democratic defeat.  Hillary's candidacy = massive fail for Dems.

Can someone provide some evidence for her craziness? I don't like her, but I have been to apathetic to research it and shit.

She's a politician like all the others, sleazy and without a back-bone.

Most dems don't actually support hilary.  She's like the paris hilton of the democratic party, you hear about her alot, but very few people actually like her.

i'd rather vote for the Cookie Monster

Hey, enlighten the ignorant here, what's wrong with her?

At least while her husband was in power, she seemed to come up with a few good ideas. So has she been drinking the wrong koolaid since then, or is this more an emotional thing?

Hilary is sucking up to retarded soccer moms (dee childrun end dee morality end deh values) and centrists. The DNC can survive without dixie and the Clinton brand. I prefer western demslike Tester - they realize the importance of the internet and freedom. With libertarians having a 13 % swing that is the road to success. Unless, of course, it turns out American libertarians only care about symbolic issues like guns and getting rid of Soc. Sec (once again, it is not a quarter of a problem that the medical family is turning into) - in that case they can languish for all I care. Okay, they like boomsticks like them. But at the same time they are pathetic enough to believe that sharing an institution with all of your fellow humans somehow lessens its value. Getting married in church is not a right, getting the same endorsements from the state that hetero couples get - that should be a fucking no-brainer.

>>9
The soccer mom stuff comes from the fact that most of the stable population that actually takes it's voting responsibilities seriously are married couples.

These people care about their families, and "family shit" is what's important to them.  So the only alternative appeal besides the "family values" horse shit the religious right keeps shoveling around is the "soccer mom" stuff that Libertarians seem to deplore so much.

I'm sorry that there's shit that the dems think they gotta do to win elections, but that's reality.  America's center is just too traditional for someone to appeal to the masses about freedom anywhere except the economic sphere.  Whether it will help the dems this time around or not, I dunno.  Probably not.

I wouldn't dare vote for Hillary in the primaries because she seems like such a lost cause.  Worse candidate choice than John Kerry by far.>>9

You know, I really don't like it when people denigate "centerists". They seem to think there's only two answers: right and wrong. Grow up.

Also, can we please have people from the US answer the question, not some whackjob Swedish citizen who has never left that side of the pond? I can't think of someone less qualified to comment.

quit allowing the weakest members of our population to leech off the productive members society, cut this racist affirmative action crap, and stop pushing the progressive tax; and I, a pro-choice republican in favor of a completely free market devoid of trade limitations, will happily vote for the dems.

oh wait.

that would make them libertarians =/

and hillary clinton is a crazy bitch.
i liked bill clinton. go free trade.

whackjob Swedish citizen whackjob Swedish citizen whackjob Swedish citizen whackjob Swedish citizen whackjob Swedish citizen whackjob Swedish citizen whackjob Swedish citizen whackjob Swedish citizen whackjob Swedish citizen whackjob Swedish citizen whackjob Swedish citizen whackjob Swedish citizen whackjob Swedish citizen whackjob Swedish citizen whackjob Swedish citizen whackjob Swedish citizen

>>11 I think I know more about American politics and American problems than the average American, but this is just theoretical knowledge so you have a point.

Also, parents have no right to limit any cultural expressions whatsoever, and they have absolutely no right to demand anti-secular, anti-feminist political impositions on their societies in order to create some illusion of stability and conformity around their kids. If they have to wage war on the culture around them they do so intellectually and spurring a more sensible zeitgeist, not by trying to create conformity (for example, by imbuing a child with rational values and becoming a constructive parent you can have all manners of filth and dumb behavior around a child - its mind will stand firm without religious indoctrination or censorship. That child will spread a more sensible culture.)

The problem with Hilary is that she is using the symbolic, emotional spectrum of politics to appeal. The sort of promises that appeal to stressed-out parents who are too lazy to give their children strong mental bases and instead try to destroy video-gaming or prevent all children in a school from getting correct sex-ed.  The centrists will not listen because she appears radical by default anyway, the conservatives will shut their ears and scream "BLOWJOBBLOWJOBHOMO-FEMINISTAGENDA" and the base will dislike her because she appears preachy, capable of selling-out and dixiewhistling. This whole "Oh she is fucking nuts"-debate is uninteresting.

>>13 I am a Swedish whackjob? I don't have shit on this guy http://youtube.com/watch?v=K_mQo3k3K9c

>>14 Mad props to a skillful-vulgar explaination of exactly what is wrong with Hillary's candidacy, while eschuing the overly simplistic "She's such a crazy bitch!" epithets.  An internet for you, Xel.

>>12 "quit allowing the weakest members of our population to leech off the productive members society" They do not leech, because America is not a meritocracy. Government leeches, because it is not effective enough when redistribuing money.
"cut this racist affirmative action crap" Have any other better ideas on how to make society more meritocratic?
"and stop pushing the progressive tax" In a non-meritocratic society like America, a progressive taxation is justified. Let's have a look at Alabama which is further away from progressive taxes than any state... Okay, turns out Alabama blows clitoris.
>>16 Always nice to be encouraged.

>>17
I'm quite confused by this affirmative action you speak of. Please explain it to me. But first off, as a staunch meritocrat, hear what I have to say on the matter.

Ensuring people who merit, not flunks, get into important positions in the economy is meritocratic. Therefore giving opportunities to people who were disadvantaged pointlessly and punishing those who discriminate is meritocratic.

Taking a load of cash from one race and giving it to another is racist.

I am a white male born to a minimum wage working single mother who was bullied into the dirt at high school then expelled for fighting back, was homeless for a while but managed to find a minimum wage job and live in drug infested projects till I earned enough cash to do a part-time course in stock control at community college and get a decent job. Please explain, right up to my face, what affirmative action would do to my tax dollars if you had your way.

"Ensuring people who merit, not flunks, get into important positions in the economy is meritocratic. Therefore giving opportunities to people who were disadvantaged pointlessly and punishing those who discriminate is meritocratic." Sure enough, but that would take government and conservatives will balk at the idea. I kinda do.
"Taking a load of cash from one race and giving it to another is racist." Welfare is not distributed on a racial basis.
"I am a white male born to a minimum wage working single mother who was bullied into the dirt at high school then expelled for fighting back, was homeless for a while but managed to find a minimum wage job and live in drug infested projects till I earned enough cash to do a part-time course in stock control at community college and get a decent job. Please explain, right up to my face, what affirmative action would do to my tax dollars if you had your way." First of all, your mother is fucking cool and so are you. The problem is that being born an ethnic minority in any country is like having your hamstrings kicked before a marathon. So, since your elevation -admirably self-initiated- was lubricated by the fact that many who were born black/into poverty lost opportunities -that you could enjoy instead-. It sounds weird, but if you consider it on an economic level it is so that racism has probably helped you. 

>>1
Yes, she's crazy and she's a bad politician.  She is nowhere near as savvy as the other democratic frontrunners.  She's Kerry x 2 in that regard.  It would be an absolute blunder if she were to win the '08 nomination.  Any reasonably chosen Republican candidate would likely mop the floor with her.

"It would be an absolute blunder if she were to win the '08 nomination." True.
"Any reasonably chosen Republican candidate would likely mop the floor with her." They'd drag her into dirt and repeat some kind of slogan like "flip-flopper" over and over again but I do not believe she is the type that can be talked down easily.

>>12 I agree with you on most shit except your idea that Clinton was a good president, but the democraps have a few other problems with them that you are overlooking, such as their infringements upon the 1st amendment, the 2nd amendment, the 4th amendment, etc.  Just give it up, the democrats suck and always will.  Libertarian is the way to go... or at least anyone but democrat.  The last thing we need is a liberal administration that is going to welcome the U.N. with open arms, hand our national sovereignty over to the U.N. / NAU on a silver platter, appoint judges who think the 2nd amendment is not an individual right, and impliment Socialist Medicine, all while supporting the Patriot Act and failing to offer a pro-liberty solution to the drug war shitfest, and then furthermore having the nerve to go around on TV blaming the rise in violent crime on guns and the NRA while they release murderers from prison and repeal mandatory sentencing laws because they need more room to throw in peaceful pot smokers.  The democrats are (generally speaking) the more anti-liberty overall of the two parties and are composed of massive fail.  They support nearly everything bad that the republican party supports, and are just another side of the same coin - the anti-liberty side.  This is just a few issues that come to mind.

Hillary is a crazy feminazi bitch.

>>14

"The problem with Hilary is that she is using the symbolic, emotional spectrum of politics to appeal. The sort of promises that appeal to stressed-out parents who are too lazy to give their children strong mental bases and instead try to destroy video-gaming or prevent all children in a school from getting correct sex-ed."

lol

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ticket_to_hell

"The centrists will not listen because she appears radical by default anyway, the conservatives will shut their ears and scream "BLOWJOBBLOWJOBHOMO-FEMINISTAGENDA" and the base will dislike her because she appears preachy, capable of selling-out and dixiewhistling. This whole "Oh she is fucking nuts"-debate is uninteresting."

She *is* fucking nuts.  As if the War with Iraq and the war in Afghanistan wasn't enough, this cranky feminazi bitch wants war with Iran...  If its even possible, I think she's more hawkish than the neo-cons themselves.

>>22 And this is the reason why I am not a full-fledged libertarian. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.
>>24 "She *is* fucking nuts.  As if the War with Iraq and the war in Afghanistan wasn't enough, this cranky feminazi bitch wants war with Iran...  If its even possible, I think she's more hawkish than the neo-cons themselves." I never said I supported her, but using epithets like 'crazy', 'feminazi' or 'bitch' is just... Below. And asinine.

>>21
"They'd [Republicans] drag her into dirt and repeat some kind of slogan like "flip-flopper" over and over again but I do not believe she is the type that can be talked down easily."

Worked for Bush against Kerry.  I don't think Hillary will be able to stand up to it.  She has the political inconsistencies that almost all politicians share and she lacks the silver tongue.

She is a fucking communist. Thread over!