>>174
Ok so your argument is that a baby born to a poor familly is "probably" going to be poor itself and probably become a criminal and so should be killed?
So the inference from that is that poor people will probably become cirminals and so should also be killed. Or do you not see the conclusions of your own arguments? Are you still reduced to playing games with words?
Here is a little definition for you then:
probably
adv 1: with considerable certainty; without much doubt
Which if your addled brain can't quite fathom means you said most people born to poor famillies and thus poor people will be criminals.
I am being childlike? You still have not even answered my first statement, you are in fact agreeing that the unborn is a child and only should be killed because it will "probably" grow up to be a criminal, just like the Nazi's killed a bunch of Jews because they probably were up to no good.
And so from everything you say and write I see you are just a smug elitist who things you know what is good for everyone else, looking down on the poor because gee they are all going to be criminals "probably" so their ofspring should be wiped out. And anyone who disagrees with you is immediately a "hick" and dumb lol. I'm not even white dumbass.
And talking about trust, so I should trust those who speak from the arbortion industry making millions through the death of innocents but not trust pro-lifers because oh no they must have a bias, how comical is that, of course only those on the left are beholden to the truth, only they are enlightened enough to guide us poor dumb sobs.
And just to cover more of the "pain" issue it is not so clear as you make it sound:
1997: Statement by Dr. Paul Ranalli:
Dr. Ranalli is a neurologist at the University of Toronto, in Toronto Canada. He is acting president of the de Veber Institute for Bioethics and Social Research. He gave a presentation called "Pain, Fetal Development, and Partial-birth abortion" on 1997-JUN-27 to the House Judiciary Committee of the State of Ohio. 2,3 He has concluded that the "spino-thalamic" system is fully developed at about 12 to 14 weeks of gestation. This is the system that conveys pain signals from pain receptors throughout the body to the thalamus. He apparently believes that the thalamus can feel pain, even though a connection between it and the cortex is missing.
To support his belief that a fetus in the second trimester can feel pain, he cites three signs:
A fetus will "withdraw from painful stimulation"
Two types of stress hormones which are detected in adults who are feeling pain are also found in a fetus from when a blood sample is withdrawn. He quotes: Nicholas Fisk of London, England who observed this reaction as early as 19 weeks 4, and
J Partch of Kiel, Germany who observed it at 16 weeks.
2000: Commission of Inquiry into Fetal Sentience:
The House of Lords in Britain conducted an inquiry into "fetal sentience." 5 One part of the study dealt with the ability of a fetus to feel pain. Conventional wisdom among researchers is that the brain's cortex is the only location where pain can be felt. However, they mention recent evidence that if an adult suffers from an injury or disease which causes the cortex to function poorly, that some sensation may be felt from an area lower in the brain. They speculate that a fetus may be able to sense some "form of pain sensation or suffering" before the cortex is linked to the lower levels of the brain. They note that babies who are born with a major brain defect can sometimes feel pain. This includes babies born with hydranencephaly in which "the cerebral hemispheres are substantially or entirely absent at birth" and anencephaly, in which "the cerebral hemispheres and the top of the skull may be absent."
They concluded:
"After 23 weeks of growth, higher areas of the brain are active and starting to form connections with nerves that will convey pain signals to the cortex."
"By 24 weeks after conception the brain is sufficiently developed to process signals received via the thalamus in the cortex."
"While the capacity for an experience of pain comparable to that in a newborn baby is certainly present by 24 weeks after conception, there are conflicting views about the sensations experienced in the earlier stages of development. The current scientific understanding is that 6 weeks after conception the elements of the nervous system start to function. Most scientists currently agree that this marks the earliest possible point at which sensation might occur."6
2000: Statement by Vivette Glover:
Professor Glover of Queen Charlotte and Chelsea hospitals in London, UK, believes that there is a possibility that a fetus aged 18 weeks can feel pain. On 2000-AUG, she recommended that late pregnancy terminations be done under anesthetic. She suspects that the fetus would not respond to sensations in the same way as newborns. It is unlikely to produce the feelings of anxiety that people have. 10
2001: Statement by a panel of experts in the UK:
The issue of fetal pain was addressed by a working group appointed by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists in the United Kingdom. The panel consisted of experts in fetal development, law and bioethics. Dr. Anne McLaren headed the group. She commented: "Fetal awareness of pain is a very emotive topic, of particular concern to pregnant women, but we have tried to approach it without preconceptions, to examine the scientific evidence dispassionately, and to identify areas where further research is urgently needed.'' 1
The group determined that pain can only be felt by a fetus after nerve connections became established between two parts of its brain: the cortex and the thalamus. This happens about 26 weeks from conception. Professor Maria Fitzgerald of University College London, author of the working group's report, says that "little sensory input" reaches the brain of the developing fetus before 26 weeks. "Therefore reactions to noxious stimuli cannot be interpreted as feeling or perceiving pain." 10
They recommended that the administration of painkillers should be considered before an abortion for any fetus which is 24 or more weeks since conception. This would give a 2 week safety factor in case the date of conception is incorrectly calculated.
Recent statistics show that of the 177,225 abortions performed in Britain during a recent year, only 92 (0.05%) occurred after 24 weeks.
2001: Statement by the Medical Research Council at Edinburgh University, UK:
According to Fox News for 2001-AUG-31, the Council's study revealed that "a fetus was absolutely aware of pain by 24 weeks." This is earlier than the 26 weeks previously generally accepted by medical specialists.