World War 3...?

Ok, so ya got China threatening ta take over places, the 'Gremlin' in North Korea, the whole friggin' middle east, 'nuff said, and us (I.E., the US)... Whatchy'all think's gonna transpire in the next ten years or so?

Somebody's gonna get nuked at the least, from my point of view. Discuss... =w=;

you only think somebody's going to get nuked because everybody likes to envision themselves at the end times.  But not even North Korea is really that dumb.

Iran will inch closer to developing the bomb, and we will have effectively completely withdrawn from Iraq in that time.  Chaos ensues, but doesn't directly affect America-yet. 

America and China are Fairly Smart.  This is not to say that they're Really Smart, but they know enough at this point to want to be friendly. 

not with a bang, but with a whimper.

I hope some big disaster happens in the next week or so. I am bored.

>>3
Fuck signed.  That's why I'm a republican.

>>so ya got China threatening ta take over places,
Ever heard of Tibet?

>>2
you're right about the whimper. There won't be a global fallout, not a continent of rubble, or a military state- just more malnutrition, civilian casualties, pollution, and "a growing capitalist threat." The end-worlders got the canned food and water right, at least.

>>4
lol badass republicans think their party is actually going to do shit when anything goes down? Cheney and Bush drop down into a mile-deep bunker and you're sitting on your front porch with a gun as the nuke hits your house. Big man.

the only reaction republicans have to crisis is fucking the economy up and torturing unconvicted prisoners. Hypocritical faggot party.

yes....yes it is soooo true I love it....hipocritical faggot party lol.

>>5
Hm, I believe it was Bill Clinton who sold China nuclear technology during his presidency. Granted, George Bush is the biggest spender in the history of our country even aside from military, I'd still prefer him over people like the 'Hildabeast' and Ted Kennedy, or *Shudder*.. Cynthia McKinney... as president. -_-

>>1
my theory:
the middle east will get so pissed off at the USofA et al that all the islamic fundamentalists slash extremists will band together and form a united islamic state, which will then proceed to take back every bit of land they consider to be 'theirs'.  they'll actually be effective this time, because instead of a bunch of relatively tiny terrorist groups acting independantly, they'll be a solid military force under a single government based on islamic law.

once they get back all the land they lost to some cause or another, they'll be somewhat content to sit on it and not pick fights with anyone else.  they'll continue to build up their military force, but purely as a deterrent.

the USofA will, of course, not like this -- they spent a lot of time and money making democracies in Afghanistan, Iraq, etcetera.  sooner or later, they'll probably find some excuse to invade the new Islamia (most likely because of some independant terrorist cell who doesn't agree with Islamia's current peaceful agenda -- old grudges die hard), and will do so.  most of the European countries will of course join in just because Uncle Sam wants them to.

Islamia will have few other allies, since pretty much all the nations that really agree with their policy have already been assimilated into the islamic state.  Germany may join their ranks, but that's only because they always end up against the Americans anyway.

most of eastern Asia will just let be -- let the other two major powers beat the stuffing out of each other.  China will just keep accumulating power without using any of it up so as to claim the World Superpower title when all the dust clears.  most of the other nations will follow China's lead -- they're smart enough to just concentrate on being on China's good side since that's who the real money's on to win this thing.

except for North Korea.  they're pissed because the world's not paying attention to them anymore.  so they nuke Shanghai.

China goes livid and blow the hell out of Korea (North /and/ South).  the Americans, of course, don't like that either.  but their military's all focussed on fighting Islamia (which is a real bitch even with advanced weapons because Islamians aren't scared of death.  lack of fear gives a huge morale advantage in any fight.)

eventually, Islamia defeats the American forces (America actually surrenders willingly due to a change in government -- the people are tired of the war and vote in a pacifist.  once the USofA is out of the picture, the other allies seek peaceful settlements as well.)  both powers go back to their own places and lick their wounds.  the USofA ends up paying the islamic subjugation tax, which ends up being barely noticeable with the rest of the taxes everyone has to pay anyway.

China realizes that the USofA is weak, and already let them get away with blowing up South Korea, so they decide to hit America now while they have the chance.  they send their nukes towards a bunch of major US cities.

the USofA notices these, of course, and retaliates with their own nukes pointed at major Chinese cities.  they may be weak, but they still got out of this scrap without using a single nuke, so they've got a full arsenal ready to go.

China gets blown off the face of the map.  USofA ends up with a lot of damage, but nothing too unmanageable (most of the Chinese nukes were shot down in transit by the nuclear missile defence network which was /just/ put up before the war.  everyone's amazed that it actually worked.  especially the American government, which just put it up because they had too much taxpayers money left to spend last year.)

Islamia claims the Chinese wasteland as their land, since the USofA is now officially part of the Islamia Empire.  the remaining Chinese people, who refuse to submit to any foreign power, end up being killed or enslaved.  noone else wants to mess.

World Superpower ends up divvied between Islamia, Canada, Brazil and Russia.

>>8
You're a moron.

sage

sand niggers go home!!

ORT ORT ORT ORT ORT ORT ORT

China invades Taiwan. Japan and the US are drawn into the conflict.

>>14
No fucking way the US is going to help Taiwan

>>15

You think we're not dumb enough?

Think again, friend.

>>15

there's a treaty in place to help taiwan if they're attacked, if our next prez isn't republican we might not do much though

Wow none of you have it right, i was raised in china, moved a few years ago to japan, back to china, then canada, and um lets just say the chinese know a LOT more about the outside world than the americans do, and even then its not much

You guys don't KNOW asians at ALL, you can't compare us to yourself, we don't think ANYTHING a like, our entire fucking value system is so different we might as well be from another planet.  Inside the heart of every chinese guy and maybe girl is for china to come out on top.  If and when china does become visibly stronger than the US, and by visibly i mean popular/laymen's opinion, then china will undoubtly try to take advantage of it.  Treaties, diplomacy has no place in China, we just don't think that way.  Threats and danger is what keeps china soceity together.

I don't want to see a war, but given the current understanding both sides have of each other, war is inevitable at least in my lifetime

Well, most americans would have thought the same way as you say china does, at least during the 1950's, 60's and back.  They at that time thought america was god's gift to the world.

Threats and danger didn't keep our society together, just shame.  It was considered shameful to go against your country, to abandon those values.  Only thing is, shame doesn't affect many people, and that's why we had the rebellions of the 1960's and 70's, the sexual revolution which has turned us into a country full of people who don't have any national pride.  (I am not a patriot myself, I'm only stating what I see as the facts here)  Though we believe ourselves to be the greatest country on earth, we wouldn't really care if someone rose up and took the title. 

China seems like us during the 1950's, only if someone rebels there, they aren't going to try to shame them out of their behavior, the tanks are just going to come in and run them over.  You probably are going to be more powerful than america, and for longer because of this key cultural difference.

Unless there's some hidden seed of that old fire in our country's population that is. Some people believe it's true, look up The Fourth Turning on google. 

Me, I just hope you guys don't become the next Rome.  China will make our arrogance and infringement upon other's borders (whether justified or not, I don't have an opinion on the US's "new empire" shit) look like kids playing around in a sandbox if that were to happen.

The 'Islamia' Future Scenario is unlikely, as there is plenty of  hostility between Islamic factions (even pre-Iraq). Extremists aren't Islamic; they're guerilla fighters using Islam as a veil for their actions. They seek power, and they want to be in control. They only desire for "Islamia" because they might have a shot at being powerful and in control. The more religious (and hence more popular) parties in control would wish to keep their grasp on power, so they wouldn't join up with the revolution unless it were popular amongst the commonfolk (see the progression from 1880s-1920s Japan)

A China-US war is unlikely, as the US is highly dependent on China's cheap labor for products, and China needs a wealthy market to sell to. If the US ever stops being rich (check the looming national deficit sometime) then the politics may shift.

North Korea dropping nukes is unlikely; the nukes are a means of bartering a better deal from the US-China-Japan-S.Korea-Russia countries. More money into N.Korea = The Dear Leader gets better stuff = N.Korea is happier. Using the nukes would eliminate the edge that N.Korea has given itself, and would almost certainly result in the deposition of the current leadership.

No, for all the chaos that Bush has added to the world, none of it has any serious reprecussions to the US (aside from, perhaps, an increased chance of being attacked by terrorists.. and even then it's mostly psychological damage, not destruction of property.)

>>20

See this is exactly what i mean, to a chinese person all that means nothing.  In our eyes its just "China appears stronger now", its time to take advantage and so forth.  That's how its been for thousands of years.  We simply don't analyze things like that, even if we did there would still be hostilities

>>19

Its good to see an american that knows what he's talking about.  The only reason asia is rising above the US is cause the US is because socially, the US has made very little progress after WW2 compared to asia.  Admittedly science has come a long way, but people still cling on to ancient morals and old styles, whereas to a Chinese guy, its whatever works best, morals and beliefs come last. 


>>20 Me, I just hope you guys don't become the next Rome.  China will make our arrogance and infringement upon other's borders (whether justified or not, I don't have an opinion on the US's "new empire" shit) look like kids playing around in a sandbox if that were to happen.

This is kinda creepy, because i assure you with the average Chinese mentality, that's exactly whats going to happen. Its happened as long as history has recorded, EVERYTHING near china has been sinicized, and even today our most enlightened scholars still consider our non-chinese neighbours to be inferior.  Your only hope is that the mainlanders stop being so Nationalistic, but i'm afraid that probably won't happen before its too late. 

>>22

stop telling them our secrets lah motherfucker traitor go die

I don't know, I think it may be possible to see a unified Islam state within the next 8 years.  I believe the key to creating this is the election of a female president.  I'm expecting the Clintons will have to step onto the stage again because they just hate being out of the spotlight and out of the power.  Since Slick Willy has already had his 8 in, that leaves Hillary as the one who has to run.  I expect the response among Islam societies around the world (and boy howdy are they everywhere) is to unite in response to the US engaging in such a blasphemous action.

Chine I'm honestly not to sure about.  Sure they have the classic mentality as specified by our Asian friend here on this board, but I have also see the communist grip weakening under a free market environment.  I like to think that the average Chinese citizen does not want war just like the average person in every country around the world.  Perhaps someone with a better idea on this topic could expand on it.

during the first generation of Islam, Muhammad brought the first Islamic State under a single banner.  before, they were just a bunch of bickering tribes more concerned with their own welfare than each other.  after, they became a military force to be reckoned with, and took over a huge chunk of the middle east.  needless to say, it wasn't a 'likely' situation.

All it would really take to create a unified 'Islamia' these days is a strong enough leader who can smack some sense into the bickering groups that are around these days.  after that, history can repeat itself.

unlikely?  maybe.  but what exactly is 'likely' when dealing with politics and religion?

22 here.

>>24
I agree that even with extreme censoring, the communist style cannot contain the chinese.  Eventually nationalism will give way, and other cultures will be accepted as equals, but at the current rate I would give it at least a few more decades. 

Since the west seldom visit chinese forums or other social gatherings, i will briefly explain the majority opinions in China (Though i might be a few months behind)

-Most people don't want war
-There are still a lot of extremists who insist war with Taiwan/Japan
-Virtually no one wants war with the US
-Extremists are usually young men on the internet, and their numbers APPEAR to be growing, but nearly every forum in the country is monitored by government agents (even the members know this), and there are a LOT of people HIRED by the PRC to spread pro-china propaganda (so they're not all to be trusted).  I believe there was a news post on the other board.
-Contrary to what people may think, china LOVES korean and JAP culture.  A lot of radicals still hate japanophiles, but there are still more otaku in china than in japan and america put together.  Piracy is HUGE, many many folds larger than english internet.
-There are no shortage of loudmouth idiots, just like anywhere else.  A VERY LARGE amount of hate stems from misunderstandings, for example, that most japanese hate the chinese.  (A lot do, but still a minority)

The point here is that we chinese do not think about ideologies, political statuses and so forth.  In the end, in the back of our minds, scholarly talk aside, its just "we want china to be best", and wont stop at nothing to get it.  You ask a guy in china whats the government like he's not gonna say "communism", because the word is just a title.  THe government has imposed many strict rules just so it could have a legal background in case they decide to reinforce them in times of need.  I hate to say this, but when Hu Jintao said that western ideologies have no place in china, he was right.

What does all this mean?  Well to sum it up, the US citizens have to start sucking it up and re-learn what the chinese are REALLY thinking, and China has to open its doors to what the world is thinking of THEM.  If you ask me its not gonna happen, that why i live in Canada. 

>>26

Interesting that you would say many Chinese love Japanese culture since I was always under the opinion that most Chinese still despised the Japanese over the Rape of Nanking.

26 here.

>>27
That's my point exactly, in fact thats' two of my points. 

1. Americans are.. well a little more impressionable (no offense, but most people still don't know that the textbook thing only involved like 1% of jap schools)  Yes there are a lot of otaku, mostly anime otakus.
2. Unlike the wapanese here, the chinese seldom "love" japan just because they love something FROM japan.  This may be because we're raised to think objectively, and also because japanese media is everywhere in Asia, people don't really think "wow thats japanese" anymore.  Some milder, for kids anime can be seen on TV, naruto, cased closed etc.  manga too, but censored.  Yes, there are just as many naruto fanboys as there are in the US, possibly more. And yes, many of these fanboys officially "dislike" japan for the same reasons.  Paradox?  Not in China. 

>>26
Don't say that western ideaologies have no place there; if the government loses its grip (which I don't find likely but still) you may see more protests, cultural revolutions ETC...

It only took ten years for our culture to have a complete reformation, in the 1960's  granted it's been changing constantly since the beginning, but it shows that change is can happen.

Now whether that would be a good thing or not, I can't say.

Now, if the popular opinion of the average Chinese citizen really is like you say, it won't matter.  The government will do whatever it wants to do, and if I'm understanding what you say, the populous will support them.

>>29

I didn't say western ideals have no place in china, the chinese mainlanders did.  the importance is that the average person would riot because they don't want to be opressed, not because they embrace the whole democratic or whichever ideal it is

I agree that change can and will eventually happen, the problem is that i honestly don't think the change will happen fast enough before some kind of tension escalates into a serious war.  Say, 20, 30 years? 

And you're right, the chinese WILL support the government, not because they judge the government's actions to be right, but simply on nationalism and pride (which is probably why the PRC keeps pumping it into the media)

>>28

this is PRECISELY TRUE, RIGHT ON THE BALL
The chinese are taking over the world, and we're letting them.  Outside the US, their economy is already eating us whole (look how many things are made in china), they take advantage of every fucking loophole/generosity anywhere they go, they're in every goddamn country, they're goldigging all the whitebois and forming chinese only pacts in all social places.  In some places like canada they could simply win any political vote by sheer majority.  In like 20 years the whole fucking world will be sinisized

The western world needs to pull its head out of its ass, the "Islamic terror threat" is pretty much nothing compared to what China could do to the world. The chinese don't even give 2 shits about arabs.  A conflict with China won't even be military, they'll just take us over slowly in society.  China makes the cold war look like a tea party, and americans need to realize this

i like tea with milk and sugar

Their real asset is that they have a huge population of people who are more or less ignorant, and who don't want to become non-ignorant.  They're out for their own survival, nothing more. 

>>33
Yup, and the world isn't ready to compete, or even aware. 

Labor's cheap in China, that's why there's so many companies doing business there. Your average American minimum wage worker could support a small factory of Chinese workers with a few grand in capital, and it's good profit. Once the standard of living in China goes up and the people demand higher wages, the cost of labor will go up, and most of the companies will pack up and look for the next cheap production market.

As for the whole China/ Taiwan relation, there's many sides to the issue. For starters, the island of Taiwan was overrun with Chinese Nationalists when the Communists took over the mainland. This created tension with the ethnic Taiwanese, and the Communists who weren't happy without total victory. If anything, China will pressure Taiwan economically as it gains favor over every last one of its trading partners, eventually forcing it to become a virtual client state. The conflict will always appear to be there, but there's a very good chance will be staged so that Taiwan can buy American military technology and secretly sell it all to China; Taiwan will never be invaded for this reason alone.

Hmm, you make a good point about as standard of living rises, labor costs go up... 

I wonder though, will this lead to more conflict as their growing economy loses the nourishing milk of american capitalists?  Or will china seek to keep its citizens standards of living low so that they can still exploit them?  Or will they bite the bullet and start playing by our rules?

>>36
The standard of living in the urban centers in China are higher than in the country.

Also stop saying things like China exploiting its citizens. It doesn't work that way and when it does, only for a small minority.

>>37
They never farmed kidneys?

2007 now and WWIII still hasn't happened yet, you paranoid idiots.

#39, it's time to head-check your invalid assumptions.  The Boy Emperor BusHitler has clearly started a war that the American elite has no intention of stopping.  When warfare involving the USA, Britain, and 3 Middle-Eastern nations churns and boils for decade after decade, then why do you insist that WWIII has NOT arrived?

One thing which you queers never seem to realize about WWIII is that is can be entirely conventional.  China doesn't need to be involved for there to be a WWIII, and neither do nukes.

>>39
Give it a few years.

I hope that we form a Sino-Russo-Euro-American grand alliance against the Islamists.

If China is going to war with anyone it is Taiwan (which the US has pledged to protect)

#42, if you think the Hypercorporate Leaders of Imperial America would choose Taiwan over having the mainland Chinese continue to buy US T-bills and ship us Chink-cheap products, you're delusional.  Taiwan would be a greatly distant second interest.

China has no reason to go to war with the us...to valuable of a trading partner..destability in the us is bad news for china and they will do anything to keep it stable. But china will become a world power no way of stoping it at this point unless you want to go to war with them which is stupid because they are also a very valuable trading partner to us. So china wil be given the time to build up thier military and equipt them selves with cutting edge military technology because we will sell it to them simple as that. They creat a navy possible even larger then ours because they have the time and the money for it. Also they are in no rush to become a world power they will take thier time and do it right...slowly pushing thier influence in by using the us as a puppet. Oh just to throw this in there i am from the us and i have never seen anything as clear as this. So i agree with>>40 no need for china to be involved in a world war. Or any war for that matter when they can watch and wait for us to wear ourselvs down and the world will be theres for the taking.

What the us needs to do is to refit its self pull its military back a bit and stop over extending. second thing is to build its industry back up. And if they want to stop china from becoming a world power loosen the leash on n korea a bit. That will make the chinese nervous and lets just say the n koreans start heading south china wont stand for that for long and eventuall one side will attack the other starting a war in asia. I know it sounds horrible loosening the leash on n korea but its one way of keeping the chinnese from becoming a world power.

oh and>>40 one question what is the last war that you consider entirely conventional?

>>44
Who cares.

I care, #45.  #44's right and you should just face the fact.  No matter how the US has rattled its sabre, when the time comes for Chinese warships to make a port of call around Taiwan, the US will make some speeches and then no other dissent will happen.  China will hardly fire a shot since they only want to own Taiwan's economic authority.  It's all about money and oil, today.  Get used to is since that kind of culture is predicated on your intrinsic gayness.

>>46
Doesn't matter.

The US has been giving Taiwan tech and weapons since Mao came to power. China is also a big country with many powerful people with interests which would grind to a halt if some retarded bureaucrats start a penis riot up in Beijing, if they did attack China could well face a civil war at the highest levels. A significant portion of China wishes to become part of the asian west.

Well, #47, you've got me there, and you could be right.  I'm too hazy on China's internal workings to reach any such conclusion.  I'm still working on the idea of Chinese social aggregates, capitalist lords, and environmental ruin.  Recent articles are starting to open up a look into China that I haven't seen before, where they deal with a culture of corruption in contracting.