Learning Challenge

Okay, so on July 26th I'm going to Spain. I stopped learning Spanish in year 8 (when I was about 14) so to say my Spanish is rusty would be a bit of an understatement.

Either way, I want to try to learn as much Spanish as possible until then. I am a pretty fast learner (for example I can memorise about 500 kanji a week, and have started learning useful bits of Spanish vocab such as food, objects, places, etc) and not one to take shortcuts usually, but I have plenty free time until then anyway, so I don't mind about learning declensions etc. properly.

So, can anyone reccomend a plan or .. a breakneck 5 week learnfest that I can take? Any resources or paricular textbooks that I can steam through too? The vocab shouldn't be too much of a problem, I just want to make sure I have the grammar under by belt, with all verb forms.

Oh and I'd rather not buy any textbooks, just online resources/pdfs/rapishits if you may. I got a Spanish dictionary and that's all I plan to buy.

GO!

Considering the fact that you have already learned a decent amount in the past. The best thing to do would be remember the Spanish which you forgot.

My suggestions, get movies in Spanish, listen to Spanish music, get a few Spanish novels and read those.

>>2
Well, to be honest, you're wrong at the first part.. I hadn't really learnt an awful lot, yes, call it regret, but I didn't fucking listen. Drawing in the back of my book was so much more fun than learning about declensions in the gerund, so it's not really that I've forgotten alot, it's just that I was a dick before and didn't learn much in the first place, so I just need something to pick me up from there really, which is why I requested suggestions for textbooks/websites etc.

I actually have the first Harry Potter book in Spanish for some reason, and I've been trudging my way through that at about a page an hour (without the English text next to me), but I reckon with a better grip on the grammar it will just be a whole lot easier.

get a teach yourself book, preferably a grammar heavy one but not one that goes into complicated grammar you won't need. i got 'teach yourself german grammar' and that was what i needed. work through that, write down every example and make sure you know the structures.

while you are doing that, make flash cards of every single word you didn't know straight away, and don't go anywhere without them. every time you have a few spare minutes, go through them.
if you make them on scrap paper, then you can just toss them out once you are confident you know the word well enough.

listen to spanish music, and try and learn parts of songs. you don't need to be able to sing, but songs are easy to memorise and you'll then have little packages full of words and probably nice little grammar structures to help you remember.

find a spanish language chan, i know there are a bunch, and browse that. again, write down new words and put them with your flash cards.


you don't need to be fluent in the language to get a lot more out of the trip, and you'll be able to get to the necessary level by then.

>(for example I can memorise about 500 kanji a week

Oh hohoho.

inb4 impending shitstorm

>>5
i know nothing about japanese, but i could do about 500 german words a week without much problem. i've done seventy today and it's only 11am.

>>1
Go to a library.

>>4
hey, I took 3 years of German in high school and am now going into Sophomore year of university. I have forgotten MOST of the German I knew, esp. grammar. Sounds like Teach Yourself is pretty good, but I've also heard amazing things about Hammar's German Grammar.

What are the strengths and weaknesses of Teach Yourself? Thanks.

>>8
the teach yourself book gave me a somewhat shaky grounding, but got me familiar with everything. i have to admit i didn't really put much effort into it, but i read it all. only did about half the exercises. then i got the teach yourself grammar one, and went through that doing every single thing in it, copying out almost every example and spending a couple hours with it each day, that gave me an excellent grounding in the grammar but very few words. i also did a lot of stuff with pimsleur to try and get the accent, now i listen to a lot of german radio and audiobooks, even though i only understand about half of what they say.

hammar's german grammar IS very good, but not unless you already have a strong grasp of the grammar.

>>5

I'm not saying that's good, or bad, nor was I showing off or starting off a 'im better than you' contest, I was just trying to give a sort of scale by which I could let others know my pace of learning, and..yeah, that's the only one that really came to mind.

6>> That is impressive, but if you really do know nothing about Japanese it would do good to let you know that memorizing them is probably harder than memorising German. First of all, English, which you seem to be pretty fluent in already, is a Germanic language, so I can imagine lots of words are going to be similar (I know nothing about German, by the way), but learning kanji is more difficult I can imagine, really. First of all you have to memorise the character(s), noting the stroke order and making sure you can tell it apart from any other kanji that look similar. And then you have to know the reading of the character, of which there are two, and for some up to six. Of course it gets gradually easier once you get used to the system, but, eh, I guess that's just my learning pace.

you would have to spend every waking hour of that week to memorize 500 kanji.

i just don't believe you when you say you can.

>>11
you're so right..either this guy's a troll wasting our time, he's a liar, or he's stupid. Or he made a mistake, either way, i can at best get down 100 kanji a week.

>>6

Okay, it's possible, but you'd have to be an extremely intelligent and linguistic person. Most likely however the same problem as OP, which I shall explain.

DEAR FAGGOT OP,

writing down Kanji DOES NOT equal learning it. Are you honestly saying that you learn the 1900-odd kanji (that it takes even the most linguistically gifted people years to learn) In a month?

You're either a lying faggot (see: LOL LOOK AT MY E-PEEN) or a stupid kid still in school.

>>13
intelligence and memory have nothing to do with each other, hate to tell you.

>>14

facepalm.jpg

>>12
OP is 5 times the man you are

>>16
he is right. it takes Japanese children, who are exposed to kanji 24/7, 6 years of schooling to properly learning 1000 of them. thus OP is a lying faggot, or troll

If OP did something like the Heisig method where you just learn how to write the kanji and one basic meaning, it's entirely possible. I did between 100-150 a day like that and I've never forgotten any of it.

It's not learning them properly, but he did just say "memorise", and doing so certainly speeds up the rest (the readings and getting a proper understanding of what each one means), so it's not entirely pointless - quite the oppoosite, in fact.

Although even if he did that he should have phrased it better or provided some explanation, rather than try to show off his e-peen.

>>18
>I did between 100-150 a day

Aside from being pointless because you're only 'learning' one meaning, it's still impossible.

>>19 here-
and i hate to sound like a bigot but it's true. Recognizing a character while attributing it to one word really isn't learning it at all.

>>20

It's not bigoted at all. These retards need to start learning language properly

>>19
Say what you want about it being useless and not a "proper" method, but it's certainly not "impossible" that way, so stop accusing random people of being liars. It's perfectly normal to do the 2000 Kanji in that book in 1-3 months, depending on how much time you invest. This is exactly because, as you have rightly said, you're not learning all that much about each kanji.

Also, everybody's memory works differently. Might just be that OP is simply talented at remembering words/characters, but then he really shouldn't need to create a thread like this.

>>21
gb2/class/

>>22
Your douchebaggery has on for long enough, and I don't have it in me to keep listening to your ridiculous drivel. My final thoughts: either do it right, or don't do it at all. "Memorizing" hundreds of characters a week (if you are able to) does not count as learning the language at all, and is ultimately useless because you won't be able to engage in conversations and will not be able to read text in its correct context. That, and it's a slap in the face for people who DID invest the time in learning the language, doing it the right way.

>>23
Your douchebaggery has on for long enough
My first post in this thread was >>22, and there's nothing ridiculous about it.
"Memorizing" hundreds of characters a week does not count as learning the language at all
Nobody claimed it does. It counts as learning the script.
you won't be able to engage in conversations and will not be able to read text in its correct context.
Which is why reading a book about grammar, building your vocab and practicing to read/write/talk is so important.
it's a slap in the face
I bet it is. Finding out you've wasted a few thousand hours to pointless repetition is hard, which is why it's understandable for your butt to be so hurt.

You're obviously too retarded to get what this whole shit is even about. Don't bother to continue posting.
Just enjoy your fail.

Ah, right-on Anonymous! The old "You have failed and I claim my supremacy; don't post anymore" workaround. It's so original and empowering!!!

The fact of the matter is, anyone can agree that these "few thousand hours" of learning is more rewarding/useful than "learning the script". You can memorize the script all you want; you're still not learning it. Enjoy your thousands of kanji characters without being able to recall all readings of it in specialized contexts when you'll need them!

Oh, and I love it how you dissect my post to bring about counter-points. Really, it's touching to see how much you devote your time to my "fail".

>>25
God damn are you retarded. Anyway
>it's touching to see how much you devote your time to my "fail".
I've spent less than 5 minutes writing that post, and will spend even less writing this one. Only because you would need long for that kind of thing doesn't mean everyone is as limited as you are.
Also, you said >>23 were your "final thoughts"? But the butt still hurts too much to stop, eh?
And I've said it in >>22 already, but it seems you really need all that repetition: I don't give a flying fuck about what you think about that method, you can ignore the fact that there's actually a system behind the kanji all you want, as far as I'm concerned.
I just don't appreciate dumb faggots like you ruining conversations by wildly accusing people of being liars.

Okay, REAL original OP here...shit, I can't believe the bitching that's come out of this thread. Okay, let  me clear up my (admittedly) ridiculous claim that I can learn 500 kanji in a week, and maybe someone could help me out with my Spanish, which has been coming steadily along.

At the time of writing the original post I just wanted somehow to gauge my memory/learning ability. I couldn't think of anything at the time other than learning kanji (as I had been that day), and on the board there seems not to be a comparison that many people use OTHER than that. I learned (only one reading, admittedly) 100 kanji that day. They weren't very hard ones, but I was able to recognise and write them all. The method, if you could even call it that, was simply rote.

Therefore, I suppose you could just say I was attributing it to 'memory' and not 'learning' as such, as learning kanji can just be learning symbols with no other context or use. However, I did plan to just cram Spanish, on top of my biscuit base understanding of the grammar, I figured it'd be easy to make a decent enough trifle on top.

At the moment I have alot of free time (in b4 unemployed etc. -- I'm home from college for the summer), and I thought it would sound odd to say '100 kanji a day'...and now in retrospect I feel like a dick for thinking I'd be able to carry on the impressive learning streak for another 4 days, not taking in to consideration that I had only learnt one reading and the kanji after that got progressively more complicated (not to mention THEIR multiple readings).

So THERE, after all your pointless circular petty bitchy arguments, I was wrong all along, more or less.

Anyway, now I've not got much more time left till I go to Spain, but can ANYONE reccomend any decent lower intermediate resources that they found useful?

BOASTING DEUTSCHSCHWUCHTEL HERE, I CAN STILL LEARN 500 A WEEK. ARGUE ABOUT ME.

>>26
Are you so insecure about yourself that you need to assure ME that I'm a retard? Inferiority complex, ahoy.

>can ignore the fact that there's actually a system behind the kanji
There's a system. Yours just doesn't count as one. Pimsleur's approach is ineffective by itself, but if you know the on and kun readings, or know the furigana to the words, then it's invaluable.

>>27
In your OP message:
>I want to try to learn as much Spanish as possible until then. I am a pretty fast learner
>and not one to take shortcuts usually

There's no other way around it. Any person who actually studies a language at a uni/college or even self-learning it can tell you that constant applications and revision of said language will secure your path to success. Make it stick to your head by learning it PROPERLY, and ignore bigots who insist that spending thousands of hours compared to rote memorizing characters is actually a valid method to learning it.

I'll say what I said in the Mandarin thread, since his situation is very similar to yours. Buy a Spanish textbook, be it a college textbook or commercial self-learning one. Get acquainted to the structure and learn commonly used phrases, introductions, whatever. Then, when you get to Spain, it will be infinitely easier because you'll be around the language every minute, and you'll eventually get accustomed to the structure, and this will accelerate your learning.

I'm all for learning a language quickly, but if you're like "oh lol, i only spent a few hours a week learning HUNDREDS of characters, lol retard YOU FAIL BECAUSE I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG" then you're not only doing it wrong, but you're making yourself out to be a cunt.

>>27
Can't help you with online grammar resources unfortunately, but I can tell you that buying a paper book for grammar reference is actually worth it. Mine was only €10 or so when I bought it (it's in German, so giving you the title wouldn't be so useful), and I've often appreciated being able to look something up I wasn't sure about without having to go to the nearest computer.
I second >>29's notion of a textbook (although a a good online resource would work just as well, of course, if someone knows one), but try getting one that only teaches a bare minimum of vocab and focuses on grammar.
If you're not good at it yet, you should also work a little on your listening comprehension before you depart. Try watching some movies with Spanish audio and Spanish subtitles first, later drop the subtitles. Here's some animu in Spanish:
http://www.frozen-layer.com/descargas/23998
http://www.frozen-layer.com/descargas/24161 (both Chobits)
http://www.frozen-layer.com/descargas/1944 (Paprika)

>>28
Das ist nicht schlecht, aber eigentlich auch nicht sooo etwas besonderes, nicht zuletzt weil Englisch und Deutsch ja auch verwandt sind. Aber du solltest dich nicht zu sehr darauf konzentrieren, Wörter zu lernen. "Flashcards" und ähnliche Methoden sind okay für Dinge wie unregelmäßige Verben, aber im allgemeinen hast du mehr davon, wenn du (mit offenem Wörterbuch im Browser) Medien in der Sprache konsumierst und dich bei Gelegenheit in der Sprache unterhältst (genug deutsche Foren und einen Chan gibt es ja). Denn um (dich?) aus einem anderen Thread zu zitieren: "man kann Worte kennen, aber wenn er nicht genug Uebung bekommt, in der Sprache zu sprechen, machen die Worte nichts."

>>29
Are you so insecure about yourself that you need to assure ME that I'm a retard?
lol retard YOU FAIL BECAUSE I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG
You were the one who said exactly that in >>21 and started calling everyone retards.
Neither me nor >>18 said it was the "right" method (ok, I did imply it later, mainly to troll you).
I was just genuinely surprised that you still don't get what this whole shit is even about, and do not notice your own ignorance despite me trying to show it to you. You're still talking as if people would just read that damn book and then stop learning. Anyway, you obviously do not only not know how it works, but not even what it is (while I have tried the traditional system as well), so discussing methods for learning kanji with you wouldn't be useful to me.

>Inferiority complex, ahoy.
Well, I guess the reason I continue this thread really is that it motivates me. Especially your comment about it being a "slap in the face" when someone else uses a different method got me thinking.
You see, if it really were like you said, I should be the one offended here, because the reason I can even have this conversation is that I did not rely on methods people like you deem "proper" when I learned English, while watching everyone else in my school fail at it. And the way I'm learning Japanese now is much same one I used for English and other languages, with some necessary adjustments of course.
But I do not rage (like you do) about your insults of "not learning languages properly" and therefore being "retarded"; Because I know my way works, I have proven its usefulness to myself, and on top of that it's even fun in itself.
If your shit would actually work, you'd be content with it. Instead, you are so insecure about it that you started insulting everyone in this thread as soon as someone only mentioned the buzz-word "Heisig," which affirms me of being on the right track, or at least not the wrong one.

And about Heisig... his books are only a part of my way, especially since kanji are only a part of Japanese, but also because learning about the kanji themselves will never stop.
What it says in the book can be broken down to 4 very simple ideas, I would say. By the time I picked it up, I had already figured out 3 of them on my own while studying kanji using the traditional way, but didn't apply them as consequently and systematically as it is written there. So as soon as I read the introduction, I thought to myself "this shit makes sense," and was completely convinced by the end of the second lesson. That's the whole reason why I use it.
Regardless of what you think, I do not study Japanese, or anything else in my spare time, to "slap you in the face" or to boast about it (nobody around me even knows I'm studying Japanese), I am doing it purely for my own enjoyment.

>>30
I've said what needs to be said -- you're trying too hard, don't quit your day job.

Chump.

>>31
Ah, right-on Anonymous! The old "You have failed and I claim my supremacy; don't post anymore" workaround. It's so original and empowering!!!

easy.

find a spanish speaker add him/her on msn/aim/etc and ask him/her to point out your mistakes and help you with the language. practice practice practice talk about anything with him/her, from TV shows to nazism.