Hungarian is a language isolate

I'm sick of jealous people who want to take away the uniqueness of the Hungarian language by inaccurately linking it with other languages it has little to do with such as Finnish or Turkish. The most common thing they cite are a handful of similar words and "vowel harmony". Vowel harmony means a different vowel in the suffix is used depending on the earlier vowels that are in the word. The vowels Hungarian, Finnish, and Turkish use are completely different.

Other languages that has been unfairly categorized into a language family are Albanian and Armenian, the Indo-European family.

What this is really about is people want to take away uniqueness the Hungarian people has by saying it is to other languages and most of its words borrow from other language instead of the other way around.

wow Hungary is still a country? 

Hungarian, part of the Finno-Ugric family

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Ugric_languages

>>3
No, it's a lifestyle.

Hungarian isn't isolate.
Basque is.

>>1
Then how do you explain this:

Estonian: Elav kala ujub vee all.
Finnish: Elävä kala ui veden alla.
Hungarian: Eleven hal úszik a víz alatt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_living_fish_swims_in_water

To be honest, as a Finn, I'd like to see Finnish being more related to Japanese and Korean than some shitty Hungarian language, but what can you do... :-/

>>7

Damn these shitty mongoloid languages sound depressing

>>8
Troll harder.

>>7

it' not mutually intelligible.

>>10
mutual intelligibility != relatedness

>>7
Hungarians have the best women in the world. If anything, any other nationality should be trying hard to relate to the Hungarians.

>>7
Haven't studied Finnish but want to.
how is it like Japanese?
Korean uses more Chinese words
more to do with sentence structure maybe?

That aside, Finnish Estonian and Hungarian are all related. The differences come from the surrounding countries, and the languages of minorities.Even here in New Zealand, our English is different from say America, England, Australia etc, this is because we have so many other ethnicities, so many of the words we use come from Polynesian, and Maori, even a little Chinese 

Finnish is not at all like Japanese.

The ONLY thing that is (noticably) related is the phonology, and that's still to a limited extent.

Basically, vowels are the same (except u, y, ä, ö and う), a lot of basic consonants are the same (though this can be said about most languages sharing a lot of similar consonants), and consonant clusters are very simple in Finnish.
Similarities stop there.

>>5
I was Hungarian earlier, but then I ate a sandwich.

>>15
i was Hungary but then i ate Turkey

admit it, you laughed

>>12
Sorry, no one really cares about Hungary here.

>>14
Similarities stop there.

No, they don't.

-Finnish and Japanese both have postpositions*:
E.g. Lentokentälle - Kuukou ni - to the airport

*Okay, they're not "postpositions" per se, more like particles and the like. But they're still attached to the end of the word, dammit!!

-Both Finnish and Japanese use "n" for the genitive case:
E.g. kissan auto - neko no kuruma (猫の車) - the cat's car

In colloquial Japanese, the o in no (の) is actually dropped. Thus we get:
nekon kuruma (猫ん車)

-Finnish and Japanese can express grammatical number through "t":

ihmiset - hitotachi - people

(There is no real plural in Japanese, though. But there are certain kind of words that denote plurality, like kigi ("trees") and hitobito ("people").

-Both Finnish and Japanese lack articles (a, an, the).

-Both Finnish and Japanese have a similar sentence structure, where the most important information usually comes last. English is the exact opposite.

-You can find a similar logic behind many Finnish and Japanese expressions.

-Both Finnish and Japanese are more or less synthetic (like all other Uralic and Altaic languages).

>>13
Apart from the things listed above, Finnish and Japanese are not very similar. Finnish has a lot of stuff Japanese doesn't, and vice versa.

>>17 Sorry, no one really cares about Hungary here.

Maybe that says something about your sexuality.

Oh yeah? Hungarian and Japanese are kind of similar. The Hungarian word for water is víz and in Japanese it's mizu.

>>19
One word?! Wow stunning similarity!!!
BTW, Jap's "arigatou" is related to Portuguese "obrigado". The similarities end there.

>>19
It's vesi in Finnish, lol

And vesi and víz are related.

>>20
No, it isn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_words_of_Portuguese_origin#Arigat.C5.8D

>>21
Better yet, it proves my point further. As with "víz" and "mizu", "arigatou" and "obrigado" just slightly ressemble each other but aren't actually related. So, you can say Hungarian is as much related to Japanese as Portuguese is. 0%.

Who decides what words are related? Some fags?

>>23
Yes, some fags.

>>17

Lern2compare languages

>-Finnish and Japanese both have postpositions*:
>E.g. Lentokentälle - Kuukou ni - to the airport
Not a post-position in Finnish. Not at all the same thing. It's just called declension, just like in:
-Russian (+ other Slavic languages like Polish, Ukrainian, Belorussian, Bulgarian, Serbian, etc.)
-German (+ Icelandic, as well as old English, old Norse)
-A shitload of Inuit languages
-Sanskrit

>-Both Finnish and Japanese use "n" for the genitive case:
>E.g. kissan auto - neko no kuruma (猫の車) - the cat's car

So does Russian. -н (-n) is a common ending for possession:
Папен хуй - dad's dick

>-Finnish and Japanese can express grammatical number through "t":
>ihmiset - hitotachi - people

That's just idiotic. Now you're just finding arbitrary, shitty faggotry such as "LOL THERE'S A 'T' SOUND IN JAPANESE PLURALS AND IN SOME FINNISH ONES THE LANGUAGES ARE LIKE TOTALLY BROTHERS"

>-Both Finnish and Japanese lack articles (a, an, the).
So does Russian.

>-Both Finnish and Japanese have a similar sentence structure, where the most important information usually comes last.
No they don't. Finnish is primarily SVO and flexible (like Russian, might I add). Japanese is SOV, and not as flexible. Huge difference.

>-You can find a similar logic behind many Finnish and Japanese expressions.
You can also find a dick in your anus if you look hard enough. What kind of bullshit claim is this?

>-Both Finnish and Japanese are more or less synthetic (like all other Uralic and Altaic languages).
So is German, Russian, Norwegian/Swedish/Danish, Turkish, etc, etc.

tl;dr: STFU faggot

it would be difficult to prove that Japanese(which is considered isolate) and Finno-Ugric languages are related. Especially because of Japan and Finland being separated by Russia (or the Americas and two Oceans on the other side)
 
>>17
a few letters that are similar doesn't prove shit.
Also Japanese (unlike Finnish) is strict with its sentence structure.

Maori doesn't use plurals or pro-nouns either, that doesn't mean its related to Japanese or Finnish.
All your similarities are too superficial
>>25
this man speaks the truth and knows his Slavic languages

Face it fags, Hungarian is related to Estonian and Finnish, and the differences come from influences from the languages of the surrounding Countries and minorities

>>25
Wow, using expletives really makes you sound tough, mature and educated all at once. Drop it, dude, it's not going to make your arguments better.

So does Russian. -н (-n) is a common ending for possession:
Папен хуй - dad's dick

In some shitty remote dialect I guess. But that's not the genitive used in standard Russian. The -n genitive is used in standard Finnish and Japanese.

LOL THERE'S A 'T' SOUND IN JAPANESE PLURALS AND IN SOME FINNISH ONES THE LANGUAGES ARE LIKE TOTALLY BROTHERS

I never implied that. Quit putting words in my mouth.

So does Russian.

Of course, all languages have similarities. Lacking definiteness/indefiniteness is no big.

I just pointed out that both Finnish and Japanese lack articles.

No they don't. Finnish is primarily SVO and flexible (like Russian, might I add). Japanese is SOV, and not as flexible. Huge difference.

I never claimed the sentence structure is similar, I said "Both Finnish and Japanese have a similar sentence structure, where (i.e. in that) the most important information usually comes last."

I did not say "Both Finnish and Japanese have a similar sentence structure. Period."

You can also find a dick in your anus if you look hard enough. What kind of bullshit claim is this?

But it's true.

BTW, funny that you should mention Inuit languages - there's a theory that they're related to Finno-Ugric languages.

>>26

it would be difficult to prove that Japanese(which is considered isolate) and Finno-Ugric languages are related. Especially because of Japan and Finland being separated by Russia (or the Americas and two Oceans on the other side)

You know, Russia in its entirety is not just one solid all-Russian-speaking block. Before Slavic peoples came to the heartland of modern Russia (i.e. Novgorod, Moscow, Kazan, etc.), it was exclusively inhabited by Finno-Ugric peoples.

And have you ever heard of the Yukaghir? They live quite close to Japan.

All your similarities are too superficial

I never claimed otherwise.

Also Japanese (unlike Finnish) is strict with its sentence structure.

lol who's being superficial now?

>>27
Wow, using expletives really makes you sound tough, mature and educated all at once
Bleh, I meant "at the same time"

>>27
Been pwned. Go cry somewhere else.
Finnish and Japanese aren't related.

>>29
I never said they were.

All he was trying to say is there's "evidence" saying any random two langauges can appear "related".

>>31
They don't appear related, they aren't related and these's no "evidence".

Face it fags, your mother is related to brothel and kip, and the inferences come from imprudence in the use of condom and buttsex.

>>27
Yukaghir live near japan. the still don't sound Japanese

>You know, Russia in its entirety is not just one solid all-Russian-speaking block

Exactly why it would be so difficult for a language to be carried that far. Finnish would more likely take things from languages that are spoken geographically closer to Finland.

Im not saying its imposable, just unlikely. You still haven't had anything solid to back up your argument.

Also Japanese is strict in comparison to Finnish 

eg 貴方達の基盤総て私達の物です
 　　　and
  貴方達の基盤総て私達に殺ぐする事が在ります

Both theses sentences emit the same idea, slightly differntly
However they still follow a strict TSOV pattern

Face it Hungarians, your language isn't "unique" it borrowed EVERYTHING from other languages.

>>34
Yukaghir live near japan. the still don't sound Japanese

I never said/implied they sound Japanese. I just pointed out that they live close to Japan.

Also, it's not clear whether or not the Yukaghir languages are truly related to Finno-Ugric languages. Some linguists play it safe by saying they're not, while others embrace them wholeheartedly.

Im not saying its imposable, just unlikely. You still haven't had anything solid to back up your argument.

But there was no argument in the first place... (-_-* ) All I did was list things that are similar/the same in both languages, not prove that they're related.

Of course, it might be possible that Japanese and Finnish are distant (very distant...) cousins. Modern linguistics isn't infallible, you know, and the farther away one goes the harder proving that this and this language are related gets.

>>36
No, it isn't possible. Japanese and Finnish aren't cousins. Not even distant ones.

What cocksucking fag decides which words are loanwords and which aren't?

Don't sweat too hard about languages like Armenian being classified as Indo-European.  After all, the languages they speak in India are mostly Indo-European, hence the "Indo-".  The root Proto-Indo-European language goes back probably further than written language, so taking offense at the idea of two languages being related through it, is like taking offense at white people and black people coming from a common African ancestor. 

>>39
Nobody is talking about Armenian, motherfucker.

>>36
why would you say something if it wasn't related?

>>26
</thread>

>>37
Actually, in the past there's been some discussion among linguists about an "Altaic" language family that encompasses, among others, Turkic languages, Mongolic and possibly Korean and Japanese. Some went even further and tried to link their mostly unproven language family to Uralic languages, which Finnish is a part of, apparently based on phonology, a few possible cognates and faint similarities in grammar, which doesn't appear to be of Indo-European origin.

Of course nobody could ever prove the existence of either language family well enough to be accepted by modern linguists; if the languages ever shared a common ancestry, it existed so long ago it's pretty much drowned out by small changes that took place over tens of thousands of years.

>>37
Prove it.

It's me OP. I guess I was being kind of an asshole when I said Hungarian is a language isolate. I just got pissed off after reading the believed etymology for several words in Hungarian are Slavic (when only like 1 Slavic langauge has a similar word, not all of them) which pissed me off.

bump

Anyone who isn't a faggy liberal who wants a united world government can see that Hungarian is a language isolate.

Actually, it's beyond any doubt that Hungarian is related to Finnish, Estonian and Sami languages. Questioning this is simply not viable. Now about Turkish (or more precisely whether or not the Fino-Ugric languages belong to the Altaic family) that's debatable.

>>39
Nobody, except the OP.

hungarian has as much relation with english as with finnish-estonian-khanty-mansi. i can provide a list of similar words if you want.

People get confused and insecure when they see white Europeans speaking a non Indo-European language. They haven't got around to Basque which is an ancient white language but they've managed to categorize Hungarian which is also an ancient white language in a family that the nearest related language is like 2000 miles away.

>>49

lol all those English words are probably loan words.

>>51

and the similar Khanty-Mansi-Finnish-Estonian words aren't loanwords?

>>52

lol not just similar words but vowel harmony.

>>53

do you know what vowel harmony is? i hate citing wikipedia but look http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel_harmony it is hardly indicative of language relation. also Hungarian is supposed to be an Ugric language not a Finno one. So why don't Khanty and Mansi have it too?

>>54

lol why would anyone be biased in something as trivial like linguistics and etymology?

>>55

because they're not trivial and nations have revolved their ideologies, patriotism, nationalism and other things around linguistic and etymological theories including Adolf Hitler.

>implying the only thing Hungarian shares with those languages is fucking vowel harmony

lern2linguistics

>>52
Not loanwords. They're words with the same proto-uralic origin that happened to evolve differently due to geographic separation. As an example, Hungarian didn't import the Finnish word for fish (neither Finnish imported the Hungarian word for fish) but rather they share a common proto-uralic ancestor. On the other hand, Hungarian did import (loan) the word Televízió from English (even though the word is a mix of the Greek "tele" and the Latin "vision" it was first coined in the English language and then loaned to most other languages).

You guys are playing on easy mode. Try proving whether Chuvash is Finno-Ugric or Turkic.

HUNGARIAN FINNISH TURKISH MONGOLIAN JAPANESE ALL BELONG IN A MEGA-UBER-LANGUAGE GROUP

IF YOU DENY THIS YOU MAY BE A HOMOSEXUAL

BUT MAYBE NOT

I DON'T KNOW

Hungarian and japanese share some other really interesting archaic words not only water But in Hungarian , katana means soldier and sword holder and in Japanese, katana means sword. Hungarian absolutely doesnt have much to do with Finnish, or any othrr languages? I SPEAK it and cannot underztand a Finn one bit. To the moron who said Hungarian is a mix of languages is just stupid and obviously knows shit. The problem with Hungarian is either one speaks3 it well or not at all and many
Do not, thereby being extremely hard to make similarities unless one knows both japanese and hungarian afluent.
When one makes claims to hearing vowel harmony on 2, 3, etc languages well lets be real, vowels make up Every word and about 70% of all word sounds. Igs easy to make a guess but real word is in the rooted words.

Hungarian and japanese share some other really interesting archaic words not only water But in Hungarian , katana means soldier and sword holder and in Japanese, katana means sword. Hungarian absolutely doesnt have much to do with Finnish, or any othrr languages? I SPEAK it and cannot underztand a Finn one bit. To the moron who said Hungarian is a mix of languages is just stupid and obviously knows shit. The problem with Hungarian is either one speaks3 it well or not at all and many
Do not, thereby being extremely hard to make similarities unless one knows both japanese and hungarian afluent.
When one makes claims to hearing vowel harmony on 2, 3, etc languages well lets be real, vowels make up Every word and about 70% of all word sounds. Igs easy to make a guess but real word is in the rooted words.

If we're gonna bump five-year-old threads, we might as well chip in a correction or two…
>>17
certain kind of words that denote plurality, like kigi («trees») and hitobito («people»)
That's not «special words», it's something called «reduplication» (repeating the noun, to mark plurality), coupled with some sound changes.
- word-initial unvoiced consonants in words that end up inside compounds, tend to become voiced, e.g. «ki» («木», «き») -> «gi» in «kigi» («木木», «きぎ»)
- «H» and «B/P» are related in Japanese, as is reflected in kana (in this case, ひ vs び/ぴ). Hence «hito» («人», «ひと») -> «bito» in «hitobito» («人人», «ひとびと»).

Or we could point out the difference between having one or two similarities (SVO/SOV/etc, pre/post-positions, etc) in two otherwise clearly unrelated languages, vs finding that two languages are related. >>7 has an example of the latter.
As for the former, there's interesting little things like the Norwegian «sursild» (pickled herring). With the exception of the final l-sound, it's pronounced (in east Norwegian dialects) very much like
…sushi!