Are you posting from BTRON? What's it like? Where are English specs of it?
I need to know at least the following: Platforms it's available for? Is it a RTOS, a general purpose OS, or something different? Does it support multitasking/protected mode/virtual memory/threads/fibers/subsystems/security/direct IO? What kind of kernel is it? Is it filesystem-based? And if so, does it have volumes (as in Win32) or a single root (as in Unix)? Separate system objects from files (as in Win32) or joint (as in Unix)? Filesystem format support? Mounting support? Is the filesystem case-sensitive (i.e. anal)? Is it POSIX compilant or Win32 compatible? What kind of IPC does it have (shared memory, pipes, named pipes, native sockets, message queues, other)? Memory mapped files? What does its API cover (TCP/IP (BSD sockets?), framebuffers, GUI, mice, other input devices, RPCs...)? Character set and i18n support? Can you compile the GNU tools for it? C compiler? Other compilers and interpreters? Available software? Any special SDKs? Documentation?
Of course, this is probably a /b/tard obsessed with a SUPERIOR operating system, and he probably didn't understand shit about what I asked.
Name:
Anonymous2006-03-29 19:37
>Of course, this is probably a /b/tard obsessed with a SUPERIOR operating system, and he probably didn't understand shit about what I asked.
Exactly, NO windows. Windows has ALWAYS sucked balls. The only thing it has going for it at this time is that there is a huge amount of software and hardware compatible with it. Leaving Bill Gates hanging with his fly open is the greatest thing in life, IMO
Tho, Vista does have some interesting features. Even though they already exist on another OS...
Ditto on that one. Linux is NOT ready for the majors. Tho, it is a good idea at heart.
All I'm saying is that I'm curious as to what makes this Japanese software so all fired great. Both Linux and Window$ are useable and work more or less. I don't know ANYTHING about this TRON OS and would like an appetizer before sinking my teeth into studying it deeper. I mean, if I need a robot or something, Japan's the place to go. But, to my knowledge, they just are not known for spectacular computer software.
Q04: I need to know at least the following:
Platforms it's available for?
BTRON can be use on x86 or i386.
Q05:Is it a RTOS, a general purpose OS, or something different?
ITRON is a RTOS for small.
CTRON is a RTOS for large.
BTRON is a general purpose OS.
MTRON is "DOKODEMO computer" in 1984.
;In U.S. it had been called Ubiquitous Computing in 1987.
Q06: Does it support
q06-1:multitasking/
Yes.
q06-2:protected mode/
None.
q06-3:virtual memory/
Yes.
q06-4:threads/
None.
q06-5:fibers/
None.
q06-6:subsystems/
Nnn...yes, it's called Jisshin/Kashin model.
q06-7:security/
None.
q06-8:direct IO?
None.
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-03 9:42
>>19
Q07:What kind of kernel is it?
Original.
ITRON is a name of a subproject, specifications, and OSs, kernels.
CTRON is same.
BTRON is same.
MTRON is difficult to write for you, but it isnt kernel, it is Meta.
Q08:Is it filesystem-based?
Yes, BTRON has a original filesystem.
BTRON has a network filesystem.
It's called Jisshin/Kashin model.
q08-1:And if so, does it have volumes (as in Win32) or a
single root (as in Unix)?
Neither.
Original be it parfectlly.
Q09:Separate system objects from files (as in Win32) or
joint (as in Unix)?
Separate.
Q10:Filesystem format support?
Yes. BTRON can read FAT32&16.
Q11:Mounting support?
None.
Q12: Is the filesystem case-sensitive (i.e. anal)?
YES.
Q13:Is it POSIX compliant or Win32 compatible?
Neither.
But, BTRON can be on Win32 compatible machine.
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-03 9:43
>>19
Q14:What kind of IPC does it have (shared memory, pipes, named pipes, native
sockets, message queues, other)?
Yes.
It IS Jisshin/Kashin model.
Q15:Memory mapped files?
None.
Q16:What does its API cover (TCP/IP (BSD sockets?), framebuffers, GUI, mice, other input devices,
RPCs...)?
BTRON's API names are "BTRON3" for x86, "T-Shell" for embeded.
q16-1:TCP/IP
Yes.
q16-2:framebuffers
Yes.
q16-3:GUI
Yes.
q16-4:mice
Yes.
q16-5:other input devices
An electronic-pen was.
;BTRON has been designed for the electronic-pen.
Touch-screen like Nintendo DS have been now, if U.S. break in TRON Project.
q16-6:RPCs
None.
But JAVA and RPC are sons of TRON.
HyperCard in Mac and OLE in win are sons of Jisshin/Kashin model in BTRON.
Character set of BTRON is TRON code.
TRON code is meta-code.
TRON code covers an original-code, unicode, GB, JIS, etc...
On BTRON, their can be used equally at a time.
Q18:Can you compile the GNU tools for it?
I can't, and you can't.
Be free from UNIX.
TORN is TRON.
Q19:C compiler?
Yes.
Q20:Other compilers and interpreters?
BTRON has "Micro-Script" and "Programming-Launguege T".
"Micro-script" is light and visual and easy like LEGO brock.
"Programming-Launguege T" can have one "Micro-script" programming in Japanese.
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-03 9:44
>>19
Q21:Available software?
(These are all based on Jisshin/Kashin model.)
Word-processing software.
Calcing software.
Painting software.
Data base software.
Mailer.
Browser.
Micro-Script.
Etc...
U.S. destroyed TRON in 80'
by the trade war between U.S. and Japan.
Because, U.S. had changed the strategy anti-patent to pro-patent in 70', when U.S. was very afraid of electronicses and technic powers of Japan and German.
On the time, Japan gives birth of TRON.
Then, U.S. kills TRON for U.S.'s benefits.
What does the decimal system or being excited have to do with it being a great OS? I'm just saying...
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-03 14:43
Kashin = Excitation, I mean.
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-03 20:41
>>29 Windows has ALWAYS sucked balls. Vista does have some interesting features.
Way to discredit yourself sire.
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-03 21:02 (sage)
Um, Windows does suck balls. Never said that it didn't.
Not a discredit. Vista DOES have interesting features. But I've already seen many of them before on a consumer OS. Plus, I haven't had a chance to use Vista yet. Just pointing out that Vista MAY be different. Not that I'll buy it or anything.
How so? It does look interesting. However, I think there are too many versions...
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-03 21:21
>>52 Windows does suck balls. Never said that it didn't.
You are obviously a Linux fanboy and never really tried it. Perhaps you think that Windows = Explorer.exe.
Vista DOES have interesting features.
Yes, like "DRM", "bloat™", "fucking slow™", or "GTFO my files you fuckface, I can handle them myself™". It also comes with the latest release of accessibility providing an interface and default configuration for mentally challenged people.
Windows Vista is just Windows XP with all sorts of bullshit built over it.
Dude, I've used every version of windows released. They all suck. Used linux too. It's not ready for the majors.
The only justification for windows would be the apps that are compatable. On it's own merit, it sucks and spits it back in the users face.
The features that I was speaking of were basically features that already exist anyway on other OS'es. But it's good to see microsoft trying to do some kind of innovation.
Plus, isn't XP basically just NT with crap added to it?
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-04 1:20
>>55
Do you use OSX then? If yes, what could possible interest you in Vista?
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-04 1:39
I use OS X but I am a fan of all technology.
I watch Vista because it's performance directly affects the outcome of the computer market. Also, Vista uses many OS X like features in slightly different ways (Like Widgets and Exposé).
Plus, I get many M$ fans that want to rag on me because I use OS X. Many of them are very much uninformed in the way of OS X (Not all but still a majority), but know a lot about windows, and knowledge is power. It is helpful to know as much about Windows as a dedicated Windows user in those cases. That way, I know the weak spots in their arguments while they don't really know mine.
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-04 5:10
Dude, if you used every version of Windows you made your first mistake there; if you think all suck you made your second mistake there. And no, the features in Vista are not kewl, they suck.
XP is basically Windows 2000 with crap added to it and a few interesting new things like 64 bit support or per-application locales. You can get rid of the crap, but you may still want to use Windows 2000. Windows 2000 is not NT4 + crap at all though.
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-04 5:49
>>58
Mate, if he's using OSX, no wonder he thinks all versions of Windows suck.
I didn't know what all the hubbub was about until I tried OSX. I still primarily use windows, but it compares pretty shittily to OSX in everything except software availability...
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-04 7:26
>>57 >>59
You seem to be comparing how nicely you can arrange icons, how easily you do stuff you have no flying idea what's it actually doing, how nice the menu system, and similar features. I doubt you're comparing command line applications, I/O scheduling, workstation performance, etc., i.e. how you really do the work. Using a computer for some is not "pres butan receev web sight lolol", it's more like find|grep shit|wc -l>>stuff; mail stuff to `cat d00d`; etc.
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-04 7:54
>>60
OSX = good GUI with unix CLI and nextstep-based libraries. If that doesn't speak worlds to you, you're clueless.
Now how exactly is windows supposed to compare to that? Have you ever developed software on windows? roffle
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-04 8:48
Have you ever developed software on windows?
Doing it right now. I hate my life. Also I'm not >>60, just a random Anonymous.
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-04 10:31
>>61
Yes, but is the CLI hidden in a "don't touch here, silly" way and your files being managed in some kind of gay end user "Documents LOL", "Pictures of my family LOL" type thing, or you can really have full control over your filesystem and organize it however you like?
As for developing software on Windows, yes I have, as a matter of fact I have three C compilers installed for different reasons, go do that under Unix with that fucking FHS without getting the worst headache ever.
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-04 10:36
>>63
You're not by any chance the guy that's always complaining that you have to have 3 different versions of any given library installed on *nix systems are you? If so: as a matter of fact I have three C compilers installed for different reasons
lol
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-04 11:10
>>64
I'm not the only one who complains about that, and yes, it does make sense to have three compilers when you want to compare them and it doesn't make sense to have three versions of the same library just because of retardness.
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-04 11:17
>>65
Either way I feel that it's about time I addressed this unfounded complaint.
On a 32 bit system I have never had more than one version of any given library installed.
On my current 64 bit system I have two versions of some libraries installed because some proprietary apps such as Macromedia Flush have not been ported to the 64 bit arch yet.
Dude, I know EXACLY what OS X is doing. There's this thing called console that I can use at any time that shows me what the unix below the os is doing if I want. I Like OS X BECAUSE it has CLI. That makes the OS way more powerful than just being a GUI OS.
Try USING a OS before judging it. And I don't mean sit down for a couple of minutes and then complain that it's not windows. Learn everything it has to offer. Then complain. I gave windows it's shot and it crapped out every time.
I certainly hope you're talking about windows on that one. OS X's CLI is NOT hidden. In fact, Apple practically puts it up in your face and says "LOOK AT THIS".
It's called Terminal...
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-04 12:28
>>67
Oh ok, if it has a CLI _and you're still in control of the filesystem_ then I could give it a try in the future. Perhaps when they crack the PC version, as I'm not getting a Mac.
Note that I asked rather than complaining. I don't know anything about OSX other than it's based on a Unix and it's supposedly rid of the X bullshit, that's why I asked if it had a gay interface for users, not claimed so. I saw a couple screenshots and it looked too gay user-y, good thing it's not.
Mac OS X has already been cracked to run on PC. This happened a while ago. Also, some guys were able to get windows to run on a mac. It actually runs OK on a mac too.
Frankly, I'd rather see Mac OS on a dell than Windows on a Mac. Lesser of two evils...
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-04 13:42
>>69
I have OSX installed in a vmware image on my box at home.
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-04 13:57
Power posts!
I've been interested in the international OS situation for some time, and may have to learn to use one over the summer when I make my first (hopefully not last) trip to Japan. Is TRON in use by real consumers in the present, or is it still under development?
I still don't know what's so all fired great about it other than "Yay, Japan has an OS, You like MANGA? Go get TRON!! Segata Sanshiro commands it, now go!"
Yeah, in fact all of the computer manufacturers are planning on swithing to TRON. Even SGI, Apple Computers and SUN. Indisputable truth.
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-04 17:49 (sage)
>>76
Truth. OS XI will be a wrapper for TRON, as will Vista (which is why it's taking so long; the technical aspects are worked out but jappos are a bitch to negotiate with).
Spoken true. We all know that Japanese code is superior code. All hail TRON! Osamu Tezuka commands you! If you see someone not using TRON, kick their ass and show them the true path!
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-04 20:42 (sage)
Didn't you know? JAPAN IS SUPERIOR!
Name:
Anonymous2006-04-06 12:33
BTRON's feature are these.
TAD (Tron Application Databus)
Jisshin/Keshin (Entity/Avatar) model
Ninble working
Direct operation
Enableware
TRON meta-code
I see... that still doesn't explain what is so all fired great about TRON. Just sounds like words used to make the software sound cool. Can you elaborate on how these factors will make this os more user friendly, innovative and powerful?
Most users can explain what is so great about their OS of choice in about two sentences. But as it stands, those two terms have no real meaning in computer science, to my knowledge.
Name:
BTRONer2006-04-10 3:37
>>71 Is TRON in use by real consumers in the present, or is it still under development?
BTRON is in use by real consumers in the present.
Named "Cho-Kanji 4".
I've been interested in the international OS situation for some time, and may have to learn to use one over the summer when I make my first (hopefully not last) trip to Japan.
Shall I present once SAKAMURA Ken to you for the summer?
Share of OSs in consumers
OS ratio
--------------------------
Windows 97%
Mac 3%
BTRON 0.01 0/00(permil)
>>74 Tron is still under deveopment as far as I know.
It is NOT fact.
BTRON has been developed as "ET-Master" by Panasonic in 1990.
BTRON is now sold as "Cho-Kanji 4" for PC/AT compartible by Personal Media Corp. http://www.personal-media.co.jp/welcome-e.html
>>75 TRON is the world's most used OS. Fact.
Yes. it is ITRON.
>>83 EXPLAIN why those features are so great.
Because BTRON has an ultra hyper-text system on the OS's layer named "Jisshin/Kashin(Entity/Avatar) model".
>>86
It is so difficult that I(or YOU or ALL-human) can NOT elaborate on how about BTRON.
Because it is not a logic but a sense.
If you use BTORN for one year,
BTRON be a part of your brain.
Learn "Tacit knowledge" presented by Michael Polanyi.
>>71 I've been interested in the international OS situation for some time, and may have to learn to use one over the summer when I make my first (hopefully not last) trip to Japan.
Shall I introduceProfessor SAKAMURA Ken who had created TRON Project to you at once or twice in the summer?