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Religion Threads

Name: Anonymous 2009-04-23 19:00

This is not the place for religion/god/paranormal threads. Post this kind of stuff here is like posting a politics thread in /food/
So, if you really want some christan debate you can do it here http://www.christchan.org/ (it's down right now but it must be up sunday... maybe)
The nearest place for religion/god threads is in /x/ (/v/ if you want a thread about God of War).

If you just want to troll then you can post it here.

Name: Krieger 2009-04-23 19:15

I don't believe there's anything wrong with speaking about religion scientifically here. Those willing to use logic and valid forms of proof are right at home. It's not until you get the circle-talking fanatics in that the discussion begins become unscientific. In other words, the only people allowed to talk about religion here are atheists, as anyone who believes in religion enough to argue it falls into the latter group.

Name: Anonymous 2009-04-23 19:27

You mean philosophy?
The problem about religion in /sci/ is that it's a matter of faith and not logic.

Name: Anonymous 2009-04-23 20:10

Science is the effort to discover and increase human understanding of how reality works. Its purview is the portion of reality which is independent of religious, political, cultural, or philosophical outlook. Using controlled methods, scientists collect data in the form of observations, record observable physical evidence of natural phenomena, and analyze this information to construct theoretical explanations of how things work. Knowledge in science is gained through research. The methods of scientific research include the generation of hypotheses about how phenomena work, and experimentation that tests these hypotheses under controlled conditions. The outcome or product of this empirical scientific process is the formulation of theory that describes human understanding of physical processes and facilitates prediction.

This is why you don't discuss Religion in Science. It just don't make sense to do it.

Name: Anonymous 2009-04-23 22:25

Just being honest, I posted all the religion threads just to troll you guys, but you're way too easy.

Name: Anonymous 2009-04-24 5:02

>>5
Same here. I actually agree with >>1, >>3 and >>4.

Name: Anonymous 2009-04-25 16:10

>>5
>>6
I know, I was polite to avoid a new troll thread.

Name: Anonymous 2009-04-25 16:24

>>5 and >>6 keep bumping each other.

Name: Anonymous 2009-04-26 7:39

gurigameshu pspspspspst ho ho ho

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-01 15:50

This thread need a bump

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-01 16:08

>>10
No, this thread is unscientific and destructive, as proven by OP with his logical fallacies.
This thread needs a sage.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-01 17:39

>>11
here troll.
>>4

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-08 14:38

>>10
It's a pity we can't stick a thread on this board.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-11 18:23

what about discourse on religion/god/paranormal as directly related to science/math/engineering/computars/logic/whathaveyou

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-13 16:36

>>13
We can bump this thread forever

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-13 20:49

>>15
Well, it might be hard after the sun goes supernova and your computer vaporizes into a thin cloud of failure.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-18 10:41

>>16
The Sun does not have enough mass to explode as a supernova. Instead, in about 5 billion years, it will enter a red giant phase, its outer layers expanding as the hydrogen fuel in the core is consumed and the core contracts and heats up. Helium fusion will begin when the core temperature reaches around 100 million kelvins and will produce carbon, entering the asymptotic giant branch phase.

In 5 billions of years we could just go live in another planet/moon/base or become machines just to keep bumping this thread.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-23 21:08

bump

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-25 2:54

If you're gonna think about God, you better put reasoning aside. God is way beyond our reasoning. You cannot trust in God with all that reasoning. The devil uses reasoning to deceive and mislead people. Please understand That God is pure, and He is not a man. He came in the form of man to save the world, but if that's all He was (a man), He wouldn't have come up from the dead. God isn't trying to take anyhing away from you- except if it's bad for you. God cannot be figured out by our brains, because our brains are not able to understand much without His help anyway. His thoughts, are much higher than ours, and His ways are much higher than ours. So, don't try to reason with the scriptures. God is supernatural.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-25 14:20

>>19
That sounds perfectly reasonable.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-25 14:26

supernatural is a subset of unnatural

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-25 17:17

>>19
I'm wondering if something so vastly superior would be able to understand us. To us, simple questions like 'why' are very normal, but I'd hypothesize such a subject cannot be grasped by a 'god'. Ofcourse I can't be sure but I imagine it being something like us thinking in just 1 or 2 dimensions.

Just a quick thought, flame away.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-26 2:01

There are thousands of gods, each culture has many gods, why do you think that your god is the real one and all the others are not? It's just faith. One has faith in Ganesh, the elephant god, other has faith in Thor, other in Tupã, and other in Jehovah. you can discuss about it, but this is not science.

Science is the effort to discover and increase human understanding of how reality works. Its purview is the portion of reality which is independent of religious, political, cultural, or philosophical outlook.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-26 6:52

>>22
I would hypothesize that you are on to something there. Perhaps such a viewpoint would be that such a being or presence would have such knowledge or perhaps wisdom that he would be far beyond that of our understanding. But from his point of view...perhaps he would see us as children learning how to do things as opposed to just thinking we are ignorant ants in his collection. Considering that even Thomas Aquinas believed God to be only two things; good and simple.
After I looked into this possibility, I came to a startling conclusion.
Did (do) Christians/Catholics see both the voice in our minds and the higher thought as God? Considering that 'good' is a term only used by the human Ego to label something as something we keep and 'bad' as something we destroy from our awareness; out of sight, out of mind. The higher thinking is when something comes to mind upon perceiving something; ego attempts to reason through it or even dispel it in an attempt to understand it. If you perceive human Ego as a child-like personality; what do you see? Upon this revelation, what do you perceive to feel?

Supposedly, the human body and the human soul are separate and yet working in conjunction with one-another. Is there a way for the human soul to 'have' feelings? I wonder if the human body is what thinks and feels; and the human soul only perceives. We can perceive pain, but that pain is the body's not ours...it's confusing, but interesting ideology. I like the idea, cause it works with my Free-Will prospective. "Do what you don't feel like doing." If you can't, you're not free. This freedom is from the entrapment of human ego. This is where choice comes in handy, "to be or not to be" to do or not to do; this of course from the simplification of Shakespeare to choose to do something or to not do something is the entire process of binary thinking compared with over-complicating issues via situations. How we can 'know' what to do is what options we are able to perceive at that conjunction and what perceivable outcomes would be to our benefit. And that brings me to the final understanding; bringing something perceivably mundane into our awareness as though it were to our benefit or advantage is what makes life different for each and every person. This has to do with seeing things as mundane or as miracles. "Thank god for such and such"; or "oh that was only coincidence." When we look at life in one of these two ways we begin to change our outlook on possible future outcomes in our lives. These possibilities are known as 'faith'. The less we have of 'faith' the less possibilities for future happenings such as the details regarding what you do for work, relationships, adventures, etc. The more of 'faith' we have, the more the possibilities in the same. When you see something as 'not to my benefit', you would see one thing as unimportant and not worth time, attention, thought, purpose, etc. However, if we were able to see one thing 'to my benefit', we would begin to see how, where, and why we might be able to use this one thing in a myriad of places within our lives; that's faith, doing something with future implications even though we might die at any minute. The final thought here is, to bring out that higher thinking or intuition, being somewhat random and sometimes incoherent, we as humans would have to think along the lines of;
1) we know nothing, what we know is like an echo of perception that may be used for the moment, but may change later on as all things change given time even if our knowledge doesn't get updated.
2) there is never nothing going on.
3) we are not immortal, so the logical choice would be to account for this instead of insist upon it until the inevitable happens.
4) since we are in these bodies, it is logical to account for its necessities; eating, drinking, sleeping, exercising, etc including what we desire aesthetically. See maslow's hierarchy of needs.
5) if you find yourself ever in a state of uncertainty, good. Now you know you are uncertain; that's turning a disadvantage into an advantage.
6) if you ever find yourself having too much pain or stress to move forward, realize that this pain is not yours, but your body's attempt to tell you to stop cause it doesn't like change. but that...is only for the moment. when it is moving, it likes this state of motion until that changes as well.
7) seek the interim; look for what is hidden, this includes seeking and understanding the human ego and what it tempts us to partake. All you require is two things to start; where are you? where would you like to be? the hardest of these is knowing where you stand; no one likes to look at themselves scared of what they might find, ergo free-will and choice.
8) the past and future are illusions, only the present is real. The ego will attempt to confuse or distract you from the present because it would rather be doing something else.
9) finally, you are not your ego; but it would have you think so.

The greatest con HE ever pulled was convincing you, HE is you.
You are not your ego, you are not your body, you are not your thoughts; these are your perceptions. Just because you perceive something doesn't make it yours. This extension of ownership to certain things is also an extension of our identity; I, me, mine. In making these things ours, we invariably subject our identity to change depending upon what happens to these extensions of our identities. Look what happens when a close relative dies; we break down. Not all attachments are bad or good, per se, rather just realize that it is the ego that makes these attachments, it is our duty to turn the easily perceivable pains into our advantage. It's not good that your son died and that you are grieving his loss; it's that you are able to perceive that there was this attachment to your son. Do you see that? Finding out things at this simple level and bringing them to our awareness is what brings intuition to our awareness. This is God's attempt to see himself by looking for himself using himself; if you can believe that.

Anyway, my philosophy is that everything works via sex.
The universe, like me, was created via sexual intercourse.
The energy or atoms that exist in our universe is sperm, and the vacuum of space is the womb; amidst interactions of these materials and the vacuum of space there is a reaction of that which we see today. All is here as a matter of motion through cold bringing heat; friction.
If I didn't know any better, even though we've left our mother's womb; we've yet to leave the universal womb. And whatever happens to our universe or environment; we are subject to equally. What allows us to live is seen as good and simple as well.

I hope this has brought some insight...to those who've taken the time to read through this.

Some sources are;
wikipedia - thanks for the starting point.
encyclopedias - more points of interest found.
networking - tons of people have great insights that I've never considered, but now I am deeply interested.
and believe it or not; children. They have very highly advanced active imaginations and interesting ways of using them to their advantages. We shouldn't be teaching them; they should be teaching us! I wonder where we would be if this were the case since the beginning? Interesting where we might be another 4000 years from now...
:)

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-26 13:50

>>24

But if the universe is formed from some sort of cosmic intercourse, it raises the question of who owns this celestial dong and pussy and who were they born by.  I take the ending of Men in Black to be sperm or even atoms.  We would never be able to communicate with something that size, and it would hardly know or care of our existence just as we don't consider atoms to be tiny universes with tiny people in them.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-26 21:00

"We would never be able to communicate with something that size"

why?

also, how i bb-quote?

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-26 21:26

>>24
>"We can perceive pain, but that pain is the body's not ours...it's confusing, but interesting ideology."

Why do you consider your thoughts and perceptions to be immaterial and not just a product of mechanical brain function as pain is?

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-27 2:34

>>27
I have to agree with this man here.  Even BDSM practices on a basic level that pain and pleasure are merely view points of the same contact.

Even as a child you loved being tickled, but if you're tickled too much it becomes painful. 

It's a matter of acceptable stimulation created by your reactions to input gathered from lower brain functions and societal influence (try tickling a girl who hates you).

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-27 22:11

>>28
In other words, pain is always relative and not necessarily positive or negative so it doesn't really matter. Sounds like this could have some interesting moral implications. Got me thinking is all...

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-27 23:39

>>29
That's exactly what I've been trying to say. Pain is neither good nor bad in and of itself. It is the human ego that decides something is good or bad/for or against it's own benefit...I mean your benefit; I don't mean to contradict it, I mean you.

So, what happens when we as conscious beings decide that indulging in painful activities in say, building a new house and all its workings and make that a current belief for the ego to consume rather than what passive-negative belief the ego, I mean yourself, would have you believe so you don't do anything too painful or venture into places too scary to think about or that you've not personally experienced.
If you look at pain as an expression of the body and that you are in control of what you choose to do and believe; you could choose to believe that using the pain to move forward and work to be a good thing as though you are fighting an enemy no one can see; cause he's right inside your head making you believe you're him. It's a neat game, one with serious life-altering implications...I believe it is the fundamentals of the expression of Free-Will; otherwise you are controlled by fear, pain, all expressions of the human ego. In religion known as the Devil, not external, there are no external enemies, only the projection of an external enemy from the internal enemy.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-28 13:10

>>27
>>>"We can perceive pain, but that pain is the body's not ours...it's confusing, but interesting ideology."

>>Why do you consider your thoughts and perceptions to be immaterial and not just a product of mechanical brain function as pain is?

Why do YOU think that I was meaning my thoughts and perceptions to be immaterial and not just a product of mechanical brain function as pain is?

It is because pain is a nuisance that I pay attention to it. It is not immaterial. In fact, it is intrinsically pertinent to my philosophy. But I find it interesting that because something I've said was stated as a division, only for the purposes of dividing and conquering to utilize to my advantage yet remains intact, you think I was meaning it is immaterial.

Divide and Conquer to understand the external world, simplify in thought to remember and control your thinking.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-29 0:46

The brain is a physical thing.  The nerves are physical things.  The production of pain (without proper training) yields negative receptive results.  Tickling institutes a surprise factor in the brain (chemical stimulant).  When it goes on too long, the nerve endings are beginning to tire of stimulation.  Since the pattern is indiscernable (and uncontrollable) the brain signifies this as a pain response rather than an assumed part of self.  It dumps chemicals and you feel pain.

Pain is VERY material.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-29 21:02

>>32
Only your final statement is correct, but your explanation is ego-rationality at its finest.

The facts are these;
nerve endings only become accustomed to pain via stimulation. It's the ego that cannot tolerate over-stimulation over an extended period of time, pain is the product of the brain trying to understand what's happening to the body. When it doesn't understand, it tries to escape and seek safety or comfort (a return to "normalcy" depending upon the person's understanding of normal)
When you attach your identity to that of your body and the pain inflicted upon it as damaging, that "belief" actually causes the majority of the pain and fear experienced, though the actual occurrence is only limited until the body can adapt to accommodate the repetitive nature of pain.

>>...nerve endings are beginning to tire of stimulation.

srsly....-_-'
and no, the brain does not discern the difference, it believes and you will believe it is happening to you upon experiencing this pain and/or fear. It is a matter of choice and stating anything to the contrary and believing the latter rather than the former. This is mind over matter, whichever force is greater the lesser will concede and follow via the path of least resistance.
Are you sure we're even living in the same universe here? rly?

...it "dumps" what?
maybe you should ask them about pain...they are the experts.
the only chemicals that are even recognized are endorphins and adrenaline.
Adrenaline is the rush, endorphins are the overwhelming sensation such as heat or cold perception within the body. It is the body attempting to absorb what is happening to it..or rather what is perceived to be happening to it. What we do and think matters to what the body perceives, as well as what our mind perceives. This happens whether we "like it or not." Liking it or not is a bi-product of the ego-self trying to assimilate itself as the dominant control in your thinking and acting, it is our choice (what determines the following action) that holds the ability to change this perception. Basically, doing what you (your ego) doesn't "feel" like doing. It is a case of acting insanely in order to escape insanity...because we perceive our current state to always reside as sanity, in fact it is insanity we are trapped within under the control and direction of the ego.

Doubt what I say is true? It IS until YOU prove it isn't. Your mind knows this to be true, but it can't allow something outside of itself to be right, that would mean IT is wrong. And that's the entire point. I know IT is wrong within myself, hence the reason I am typing this right now. Frankly, it doesn't give a damn if you listen, discuss, research or whatever; as far as it's concerned you can go to hell in a hand-basket with it's blessings. I say differently.
If you believe you are sane, that is the definition of insanity.
Look it up if you wish to prove me wrong. I double-dare you.
Or will you allow fear to reason your way out of this little adventure as well? Hmm.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-29 21:09

In all seriousness, pain isn't caused by outside the body; it's the body that allows that pain to exist in the first place, or have you forgotten. That which allows is a contribution to and not against any motion.

Pain only a perception. The nervous system is in constant energy flow making sure everything within itself is functioning. When the nervous system interprets resistance or variance there is pain perceived via the ego through the ID which only understands self-preservation at its highest priority.

But it's not set in stone that it has to remain that way. Our personal choices have an effect upon this state. That being a broadening of ego-boundaries to allow for certain resistances to occur and flourish ergo allowing ourselves to occur and flourish. It's that belief that is a choice planted within the ID through the Ego via choice and repetitive expressions of Free-Will by doing what you don't feel like doing.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-29 21:16

Try this little experiment if you don't believe me.

1) ask yourself internally what you would like to do and you will perceive a want from within, a drive, a desire to pursue or continue.
2) do something else and see what happens.
3) record what happened "as it happened"
4) record what you felt upon completing that action.

If I had to guess, your body might continue to bombard you with aches saying that it would rather do something else as opposed to what you are currently doing. Know this, doing something other than what you "feel" like doing is the current state of what it means to be human and sane. If you aren't doing this, you're insane. You are out of control of your body, you are controlled, you are not free.

The constitution does not hold an ounce of water when it comes between you and your ego; only yourself and that of another human being.
It is a privilege that we are allowed to practice this, you only have the right to die and no one here on earth can take that away. The more control you believe you have, the less control you actually have. It is up to you to become comfortable with uncertainty and finding a way to live within knowing that you will never know everything, but you can learn some things to better assist you in your decisions.

But srsly, my ego doesn't think you have what it takes, I dare you to prove it wrong...please don't prove it right by just sitting there with your dick in your hand.

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-31 2:58

>>25
perhaps that is what we have been looking for all along; seeing the simple things as the most important...?
Thank you for this insight!

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-31 4:23

>>25
btw;
Earthquakes are Earth-gasms produced by frictive tectonic plates...:P

Volcanoes are massive-ejaculators produced by plates coming together and one goes on top, the other on bottom...:P

Anyone want to give it a whirl?

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-31 4:27

Anyone ever wonder about spirals?

What spirals exist in nature?

Our milky way galaxy
snails
thumb prints
DNA
whirlpools also known as Maelstroms
-this one's interesting. It is said that one of these above the equator spins one way and one below the equator spins the other...the funny thing is if you look at the whirl from below...it appears to be spinning the other way, but in all account is is always spinning one way...anyone care to comment on this?

Name: Anonymous 2009-05-31 9:07

>>38
yeaha, there are all sorts of emergent mathematical patterns when you order members of most any natural set.
spirals is just one of them.
i don't think pointing out a number of examples of one sort pattern and therefore assuming they are therefore all somehow more related to one another makes sense.
and a double helix isn't REALLY a spiral...

Name: Anonymous 2009-06-01 13:40

>>39
prove it.

Name: James 2011-11-02 6:20

Name: Anonymous 2011-11-09 2:34

>>38
Fibonacci sequence

1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,33,..ect.

also, Golden ratio.

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-09 6:10

You're now watching two strangers discuss your question!
Question to discuss:
what do you want for christmas? and don't bitch about me being religiously insentive, if you want too, get fucked
Stranger 2: I am religious D:
Stranger 2: but I receive presents too :D
Stranger 1: you are religiously insensitive
Stranger 2: hmm
Stranger 2: I want
Stranger 1: you are disrespecting the muslims
Stranger 2: yes I am
Stranger 1: LOL jk, fuck em
Stranger 2: problem muslims?
Stranger 2: *troll face*
Stranger 1: i want a fuckin piece of chicken
Stranger 2: I want a capo
Stranger 2: for my guitar
Stranger 2: and ROCK THE SHIT OUT OF MY BEDROOM!
Stranger 2: even if I'm using a classical guitar
Stranger 1: drained it..
Stranger 1 has disconnected

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-10 14:20

>>40
If you're asking why a DNA helix isn't a spiral, a helix isn't a spiral because a spiral gets a smaller revolution at one end of it's path while a  helix gets taller but the radius of revolution remains pretty much constant.

Name: Anonymous 2011-12-14 21:45

Name: Anonymous 2012-01-08 15:47

>>41
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christwire
sorry, bro, it's not real.
You should have been able to tell; it's written like it's by a 12-year-old.

Name: bob from the blob 2013-04-28 14:32

no

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