Yeah, I have been not liking religion for a long time, but recently I befriended a highly religious Christian friend that was open to discussion
The problem is: I seem to think that whatever I try to refute him with is wrong, and my own experience with science and the natural study of everything is too small to make an accurate refrence as to how Christianity is disproved
I brought in some bullshit about evolution and biology, but I failed horribly
So give me some proof that is irrefutable or otherwise widely used
I know there was another thread like this, but it didn't specifically address the question
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Anonymous2008-05-23 1:51
If you are talking about using the elenchis, your question demonstrates that YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.
If he says that his invisible sky monster is real, he is the one making the positive existential claim. The burden of proof is upon him. If he can't prove his deity is real, he loses.
It is of course impossible for him to prove much of anything at all within the structure of Thomas Aquinas's theology which is mostly stolen Platonism sprinkled with Aristotelianism with the serial numbers filed off. Aquinas, in his fevered attempt to assume his conclusions, deliberately made all the central tenets non-disprovable and therefore non-testable. Popper has demonstrated that a non-testable claim is meaningless noise and conveys no information. Therefore you win. But if you're a dick about it he won't be your friend much longer. Then again, do you want a christfag for a friend?
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Anonymous2008-05-23 3:45
Here's the thing. If you want to be friends, find the points in what that friend says and be unified by them. It's your differences that define you as individuals, but definition doesn't unite, commonalities or common ground are what bring people together. So, when communicating with other people look for the common grounds, and use them to your friendly advantage. If your friend wishes to discuss the unifying factors and defining factors cooperatively through communication, than you have a respectful friend (respectful to himself), but if neither of you wishes to cooperate and look for in each other the common grounds, then it would probably be best to part ways until both parties can have a chance to learn a little about the human race and our history. I wish you the best of luck, it took me 30 years to finally figure it out, so, if you are still young enough, time is on your side for now. :)
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Anonymous2008-05-23 7:59
>>3
Or you could make him realise what an idiot he is for believing crap and have a friend you can actually have conversations with that aren't just strings of platitudes aimed at pussy-footing around the fact he has mush for brains.
What a load of horseshit. The lot of ya, really. Only >>2 seems to be on the right path to success. What the hell are you guys thinking. The other person's wrong and therefore needs to be defeated? WHOA! With friends like you, who needs an Ego? Christ on a stick! Can't any of you realize that you are destroying yourselves by destroying others? If you had eyes that could perceive what you're doing, you'd probably hurt yourselves...Oh, you do have eyes to perceive. *Hmm, let's see. How do you convince the ignorant masses to take chances and perceive something other than what they believe to be true?* Oh, you can't force anyone to do it cause they believe they are right and everyone else is wrong. I'm just waiting for your collossal fuck-ups to compound enough to crush you under its weight so I don't have to suffer your foolishness any longer. Thank you for your time...:P*
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Anonymous2008-05-23 15:25
>>3, not >>2. >>2 has black shit on his tongue, might be contagious. Be afraid.
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Anonymous2008-05-24 1:45
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSCIENCE
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Anonymous2008-05-24 5:26
Just tell him that he's worshipping the god of the Jews.
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Anonymous2008-05-24 18:54
What is the God of the Jews anyway?
Is it a pickle?
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Anonymous2008-05-24 20:05
You know, Jesus's ghost dad.
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Anonymous2008-05-24 21:22
ITT oh fuck, not this shit again. There's 5 fucking threads that are railing against it. I don't give a shit about either Christfags or Atheistfags. They're both obnoxious and preachy as shit. gtfo you stupid niggers.
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Anonymous2008-05-24 21:26
As The Dude would say: "Yeah, well, that's like, your opinion, man."
To believe in an afterlife you have to believe that an invisible part of your body goes to a magical place after you decompose. It doesn't take a genius to realize this is totally mental.
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Anonymous2008-05-28 9:39
>>22
NO U BELIEVE that WE are talking about a magical place that your body goes after you decompose and so do the other mystical dogmatic fuck-tards. The real genius is that the story of the afterlife is the story of life.
Inactivity = coal
Activity = fire
Which do you prefer, becoming fire or being consumed by fire?
"To be or not to be" That is life's question, your choice is the answer. And how do you know you're going in the right direction. You make mistakes. When you start getting it right is when things get blurry and damn near indistinguishable including the inner image of self. That's what real active mystics end up doing, they actively promote inactivity to activity and expect us to just accept their 'DIVINE' truth as though it were true. NO, THEY HAVE IT WRONG BECAUSE ALL ABSOLUTES ARE PERCEIVED AND INTERPRETTED RELATIVELY BY EACH AND EVERY PERSON ALIVE.
For more info read this diagram: http://dis.4chan.org/sci/1209498880/55
And I say, EVEN QUESTION THIS!!! IS THIS RIGHT? HOW DOES IT WORK? HOW IS IT WORKING FOR ME? WHAT ARE THE GAINS? WHAT ARE THE LOSSES? DECIDE YOUR OWN FATE!!!
DO WHAT THY WILL!
Science isn't something that disproves faith, faith and science are two parts of one process. The process of living requires that we think, given. It also asks that we use our imagination. This is what is really in the realm of debate.
What most people don't understand is that using your imagination is what produces assumptions and even in the scientific method the use of axioms or assumptions are questioned in order to find out what actually happens.
Reality should not be something that exists solely in the mind. Reality should be the contrast between mind and environment. Because both exist, both should have a part in a healthy mind. The lack of one or the other or the favor of one over the other is a sure sign of ignorance and and bias.
Until humans finally begin recognizing that contrast of contradistinctive sides is necessary for any one life to flourish in such a way as to surpass what personal experience has limited the extent progress and vision. Personal experience came into existence because of scientific method, but scientific method requires axioms (a proposition of something NOT known for experimentation). Faith states that doing what you don't know is necessary to evolve beyond the safety, familiarity, and comfort of the mental environment of the satiated ego symbolized as the true devil which acts in accordance to maintain and self-preserve the current state of awareness and intelligence. Ego has no necessity to go beyond what is known unless it is about passionate over-indulgence of self-gratification for the moment; to lose yourself in the moment.
While some of the terms used are beyond the grasp of what you currently know, a quick search on dictionary.com can alleviate your ignorance. Further inquiry of other persons perspectives and using the form of persuasion called, "Playing Devil's Advocate," meaning "to look for what is right about something 10 times before condemning it" is also a function to move beyond one's own human ego.
The battle of our lives is over self-awareness. Who actually looks at themselves and critically thinks what might be done to move beyond the moment in such a way to promote the future-self? Any ego-satisfaction of passions of the body nullifies critical thought of self-awareness enough to ignore oneself; and that is self-disrespecting. And that is what brings us full circle. Doing what's respectful to ourselves not for what's best for the moment, but what's best for our future-selves.
And if you want to say tl;dr, that's your choice, but is it best for your future-self or best for the moment? The price for indulging the passions and desires being of course your future-self.
Live or die; your choice.
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Anonymous2010-08-13 15:10
>>30
Greetings, time traveler.
Please tell us what happened on December 21 2010.