Return Styles: Pseud0ch, Terminal, Valhalla, NES, Geocities, Blue Moon.

Pages: 1-

My proof that God exists

Name: Anonymous 2008-03-13 9:10

God is eternal and not created. Firstly, you have 2 choices; either everything came from nothing (which is impossible), or something always existed and created us. You have no other choice.

This thing that always existed would be considered Eternal, having transcended time, space, and matter, being everlasting, having always existed. If you argue this is impossible, I would argue the contrary; it is impossible for this Eternal 'thing' to not exist, because the alternative is that nothing existed, which could only produce nothing. So, something always existed, and is therefor Eternal.

Now, for something to be Eternal, it can not consist of time, because time must have had a beginning. We exist in a universe of causality, so an infinite regress is impossible; there could not have been an infinite amount of time before right now, because we never would have reached this moment in time. That means time had a beginning, and whatever created time exists without time, beyond time, in timelessness; Eternity.

So, this Eternal Creator, created time, and the universe. This Eternal Creator cleary is extremely powerful, because the energy of the trillions of stars in the known universe were created by this Creator. And obviously, the Creator is extremely intelligent, having created an intelligent being such as mankind and a world in which to populate with it.

Or;

Time is the measure of the changes in matter. If matter ceases from changing, time ceases to exist. Likewise, space is the measure of the distance between two pieces of matter, and if matter ceased from being, so would space.

The question is; could there be an infinite sequence of changes between two events? If not, there could not be an infinite sequence of changes before right now. The obvious answer is no, there could not be an infinite sequence of changes between two events. That means there must be a beginning of time (or the beginning of change), because there could not have been an infinite amount of time (changes) before right now. This means time came into being a certain amount of time before right now, from something that exists without time, something eternal.

If something exists without time, it necessarily exists without matter, and is therefor without space as well. Something that exists without time is Eternal, something without matter is immaterial (invisible, untouchable), and something without space is omnipresent (not bound by spacial restriction). So, an Eternal immaterial omnipresent 'something' created matter, time, and space.

A wonder what this 'something' could be?

Name: Anonymous 2008-03-13 9:30

First statement false. Fail.

Name: Anonymous 2008-03-13 10:25

Even eight-year-olds should be able to take this one apart.

Name: RedCream 2008-03-13 12:30

>>2
Roger that! -- to wit:

>>1
God is eternal and not created.
Your first statement can't be the assertion that you supposedly set out to prove in the first place.  You simply said effectively:

"My proof of God existing is that God exists."

Since that's no proof at all, it's just another assertion, and it remains true that such an assertion has ZERO EVIDENCE.

Come back WHEN YOU HAVE EVIDENCE.

Name: Anonymous 2008-03-13 12:55

>>4
It's not uncommon for people to start with the conclusion they intend to demonstrate. Reading comprehension is something you can learn.

His first premise is this:

Firstly, you have 2 choices; either everything came from nothing (which is impossible), or something always existed and created us. You have no other choice.
Which is bullshit for very obvious reasons.

Name: Anonymous 2008-03-13 14:18

All of these things end up reading the same way... "We don't know what the fuck happened here therefore God must exist and he did it.  QED, bitches."

Name: Anonymous 2008-03-13 14:20

>>5
For the sake of argument, state the reasons it's bullshit.

Name: Anonymous 2008-03-13 14:21

MY COCK CREATED ALL LIFE EVERYWHERE I AM TRANSCENDANT AND IMMORTAL PROVE ME WRONG MOTHERFUCKERS BEFORE MY EPIC MONOLITHIC PHALLUS STRIKES YOU DOWN FOR BLASHPEMY

Name: Anonymous 2008-03-13 14:27

>>7
Well, to start with, it assumes that 'everything' as we see it now has existed for finite duration.  The hidden assumption is that it is irrational to believe that any set A that could become our universe -- the matter/energy or stuff that could have become the matter/energy of the universe -- could have existed forever OR back to a pre-temporal period.

This flatly contradicts the OP's conclusion that such a set A exists and is called God.

You could give him some credit and say that maybe he's pointing out that the difference is in intent, but then you've just taken out some simpler entity -- some singular set that can somehow give rise to the universe as we see it -- and replaced it with an even more complicated one: some singular set that can somehow give rise to the universe as we see it AND is conscious.

Either way, if you buy his first premise, his conclusion that god exists is automatically inconsistent.

Name: Anonymous 2008-03-13 14:54

>>9
There's also the implicit dismissal of things coming from nothing as impossible, while considering the far more ridiculous hypothesis that something always existed and created us not to be.

It also ignores countless other possibilities, such as the oscillating universe, an infinite series of universes "reproducing" through black holes, chaotic inflation, etc.
Many of these are speculative, of course, but they're a fuck of a lot more promising than just copping out and saying goddidit, in that they can at least lead to testable hypotheses.

You could write a whole book just on the bullshit assumptions implicit in OP's very first premise. The rest of the post is even worse.
The entire thing is an exercise in non-sequiturs and circular reasoning. No wonder theotards are a laughing stock.

Name: 4tran 2008-03-13 23:20

Crappy theotards and pseudo/sci/entists.  Define your damn terms!  He should have pointed out that theology has a different definition of "eternity" from what one normally expects:
>3. Theology. the timeless state into which the soul passes at a person's death.
This is quite different from the usual
>1. infinite time; duration without beginning or end.

Since when did "omnipresent" mean
>not bound by spacial restriction
?
Any competent dictionary will state something like
>adj.  Present everywhere simultaneously.

Phail, as always.

Name: Anonymous 2008-03-14 11:55

>>1

>God is eternal and not created. Firstly, you have 2 choices; either everything came from nothing (which is impossible), or something always existed and created us. You have no other choice.

Yes I have. How about the possibility that everything just popped up out of nowhere? It's just as possible as someone just creating it out of nothing. Also, why can't everything be eternal? As for the rest of your post - tl;dr.

Don't change these.
Name: Email:
Entire Thread Thread List