Jesus, real; but fake

Yes., another religion thread; i think jesus was a real man but i don't really think he DID what they say he did; just to start out a point. he is always portraid as a caucasian male; Thats NOT POSSIBLE. jerusalem is in the middle east for gods sakes. and then as i see it he just commited suicide for our sins? ok he did that. so now we're free to sin all we want? and then when the english were spreading thier kingdom, beliefs and religions i think the stretched the rules and truths to get more poeple believing in the religion; its almost as if they are trying to scare people into believing; if they don't believe then they go to hell and spend all eternity suffering; i could say a lot more about scaring but i won't and then i believe the jew's are right there.. i think the mesiah is YET to come.. why have him come near the beggining of earth instead of saving us from the end of the earth; and then how about the universe, does it just end? or what? did god create everything or is there a god for every galaxy?; what created god? summaring it down; i think jesus's ability's are stretched to get more people into the religion DISCUSS

Ok look, the New Testament was written by a bunch of Jesus' followers recounting what happened before and after his death by crucifixion (a common capital punishment in those days).  They believed he was the son of God.  They don't actually say he died for our sins, but it's become implied by his last line "God, why have you forsaken me?" 

The Christians were a small sect at this time, until Emperor Constantine the Great had a dream about Christianity, and decided to promote it rather than persecute it.  It flourished and spread throughout the world, and was continually changed by different sects adding their own rules and stories. 

Not only do we have Christian sects that believe in their own particular view being right, but we have newer religions that are based on Judaism/Christianity but are seperate, such as Islam in 1st century AD or Mormonism in the 19th century.

Of course Christianity is based on Judaism, which came after Zorastrianism, so who's to say who's right?  Hinduism and  Islamism combined outnumbers Christianity, so who says Christianity is correct?

For the most part, religious followers are born in to their religion.  If you were born in America, India, Iraq, or any country you would tend to adopt its most popular religion and be told it's the "right" one. 

One can argue that all gods or God is the same, but then you have conflicting mythology.  You can argue mythology is irrelevant, God is an all powerful entity that cannot be defined or known, but that means we really have no proof of what God is if God is only an "unknown force."

Look at Intelligent Design.  The driving explanation is that "something probably did something to create us, but we don't know who or how."  That's the same as saying you don't know how any natural disaster occurs, because you don't believe disasters are caused by nature alone.

there was no jesus. it's all a conspiracy by disfranchised jews which was a bit more successful than they originally thought it would be.

Jesus was of Hebrew descent, so chances are he had dark skin.  But paintings of him make him white with black, brown, or gold hair.

And yes, Christian logic follows that all people WILL go to Hell, unless they believe in God/Jesus.  From a Christian view, all non Christians are dying of spiritual AIDS, and changing one's belief is the only cure.  They carry tremendous guilt by seeing everyone who doesn't believe as damned.

Since no one has proven Jesus left a corpse after death, no one can prove whether he rose after death or not, unless his body was part of an elaborate ruse.  Jesus did exist historically, there are Roman records and eyewitness accounts, but just that he was a person, not a miracle maker.

I want this thread to go past 100!

>>5

ojk

exactly; its like.. believe or go to hell!!

>>7
I;d rather go to hell.

You may never know but maybe actually hell is actually heaven and the heaven that Christians are wishing to go is the actual hell.

At least hell I get heavy metal music, violent computer games and hentai. You think you get that in heaven?

Religion is SSSSCCCCIIIIIIEEEENNNNNNCCCCCEEEE, but not Science.

SCIIIIEEEEEENNNNNCNCCCCCE!

>>4
It certainly doesn't feel like they carry some sort of guilt. It's more like some sort of condescending attitude in my experience.

>>8
I don't recall ever hearing about heavy metal music, violent computer games and hentai in hell, just endless suffering, but if you find praising God for all eternity to be unbearable, hell is probably better for you.

If that's case. Fuck God.
We'll all go to hell anyway and he demands way too much. And how many have really heard Satans version, or is it just one side that counts?
BOTH GOD AND SATAN IS FICTIONAL CHARACTERS one to scare people into believing, give money to the church PROFIT LOL, and the one who shall lead us to eternal 'salvation'.
Usless bullcrap if you ask me.

>>12
The church is the oldest, most successful enterprise ever started by man. It's a very effective to control the lambs, and to get the best and the worst from them as you please. People may not have enough for food, but they'll still donate to the church.

I demand that all religious and spiritual activities are charged with full taxes, from VAT to economic activity tax and tax on profits. Customers (lambs) buy "salvation" and "heaven", sometimes quite literally, the fools, and they receive a service of class "faith" (bullshit, but still, lots of products in the market are). So they should pay taxes like everyone.

>>13
Agreed. My 2 cents: most religious people are suckers. Try it! You may get something from them for nothing!

Institutional religion has always been political. If you research a little bit on theology and history of religion you can get a picture of how all religion is intertwined. Judaism arose in rivalry and in parallel to a polytheistic tradition; they shared many beliefs. The first Christianity is a subtle blending of Judaism and Eastern mysticism; it is supposed Jesus himself visited India and assimilated many of the ideas there. As Christianity became increasingly Catholic, pagan ideas were introduced to appeal to the masses. The dates of Christmas and Easter were dates of pagan festivals.

I doubt individual believers actually realise they are playing a part in weaving a great social web through religion. It is akin to a business corporation in that it takes a life of its own because there are so many believers pursuing their own agenda in such a complex system. It is a grand social pursuit.

>>2
Actually, Evolution isn't a great deal clearer than Intelligent design. Evolution is basically "we reckon evolution happened but we don't know why or how". The difference is Evolution is based on science, and Intelligent design is based [mostly] on non-science.

>>15
Evolution is basically "We reckon evolution happened but we don't know why or how"? Wtf are you smoking and can i have some? Its pretty much a stated fact that evolution exists as it can be seen in modern butterflies. Also, We Reckon evolution happened and we KNOW we came from monkeys, we pretty much know how too.

Evolution is basically "we reckon evolution happened but we don't know why or how". The difference is Evolution is based on science

That's the stupidest thing I ever heard. Ignoring the correctness, or lack thereof, of your first sentence, you clearly have no idea what science is if you believe that a theory with no evidence and no understanding can be based on science.

As it happens there is plenty of evidence for evolution, both in the long term (fossil records) and the short term (plant studies etc) and we have a good understanding of the forces involved - you may have heard of On the Origin of the Species by a Mr Charles Darwin which described precisely that.

"We Reckon evolution happened and we KNOW we came from monkeys"
lol! Get out. No really.

>>17
Tell me about these understood forces you speak of please.

Oh, good lord. I feel sorry for the poor sod if he tries to list them. There are a lot: observed changes in DNA (like allele distribution and homologues), strains of bacteria developing resistances, observed examples of speciation in large organisms, ye olde fossil record, and plenty more I can't recall off the top of my head.

Or you could follow this instead: http://www.google.com/search?&q=evidence+evolution+fossil+DNA

Why the heck is Intelligent design even being considered? Bring scientific proof. Given evolution is still a theory. But at least that has SOME scientific proof.

If you don't like the fact that you might originated from Monkey or just don't like the evolution theory at all then thats your choice and you can present an alternative theory. BUT not something as BASELESS as intelligent design.

>>20
fossil records hardly constitute as a natural force.

>>20
Evolution is more complicated than the whole lot of them put together. Scientists have a lot of claims, backed up by many evidences, but they still don't really know how or why. It's not like they've managed to reconcile the different fields like the Theory of Everything has managed to do. Bottom line is, they have a lot of good (and bad) guesses.

>>23
agreed

This thread is turning into the Evolution thread. wtf.

>>23

Agreed as well.
Metamorphoses is not proof of evolution.

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>>23
Evolution fits the observed evidence with the least number of external components.

I know it's not good practice of finding the truth, but at the end of the day one side is arguing for evolution, the other argument is that God created the world, which is, frankly, a complete and utter looneytoon theory. There is really no reason arguing the ins and outs of evolution with disbelievers. Most have their faith which completely protects them from any argument.

>>27
This is true. There is no point in arguing with someonw who will no listen. But this doesn't just include staunch creationists. This also includes many proponents of evolution. The don't take well to their generaly accepted idea's being criticized. It's hard to have a good discussion about evolution.

When the only alternative is creationism, no wonder some of the evolution bunch don't listen.

Or is there a third theory I'm not aware of? Let's debate that then!

>>29
I'm not refering to them listening to creationists. I'm talking about them not accepting criticism from their own colleags. You'll have them saying here's what's happening and here's how it happens. And they will refuse to listen to any criticism or alternative ideas on the how part.

Creationists theories tend to be a reaction to the arguments of evolutionists so that their beliefs do not seem completely stupid, such as Intelligent Design, which amounts to evolution but oh God controls it. Their beliefs are formed to reach the conclusion they want to find.

>>1
He is NOT portrayed as caucasian male.
being falsely condemned is different from committing suicide, think of Socrates.
He died for the sins you already committed, if you keep sinning all you want he dies for nothing!
nobody said the english were right in what they did.
Jesus' abilities _seem_ stretch because he is more than human!

>>32
He died for the sins you already committed,
Then he died for nothing, because I did not exist by that time.

>　if you keep sinning all you want he dies for nothing!
And who cares? He didn't die for me. He died because he was a loser, dying when he knew better.

Jesus' abilities _seem_ stretch because he is more than human!
My cock _seems_ to stretch because it's not a cock!

Open your eyes lamb.