PHP

what's good about it?
what's bad about it?

ISRAEL

what's good about it?
what's bad about it?

good: wordpress is a nice CMS for dumbshits who cannot into programming, a lot of support, a lot of cheap programmers, works well with the web
bad: everything else, security, horrible language to learn on
There's pages of stuff on why PHP is bad, just search the net for it.

1. Inconsistent lexical scope, where assignment acts as declaration, serving as major source of PHP bugs and impeding function programming, because in PHP anonymous functions require awfully verbose constructions, like `function($y) use ($x) {`
2. Inconsistency between literals and variables, growing from variables being objects themselves: given `$a="foo"`, var_dump($a instanceof stdClass) works, but var_dump("foo" instanceof stdClass) produces error. Function may be called via variable, containing function name, leading to badly designed and insecure code, welcoming exploits, especially when function name comes from use input.
3. Non-portable: PHP stores integers in a platform-dependent format, usually 64-bit or 32-bit signed integer, equivalent to the C-language long type.
4. Inconsistent standard library: for example, shuffle(123) would return false, instead of logging error and halting execution, before more damage is done. Functions `print` and `echo` duplicate each other, while `print` for some reason always returns 1. PHP standard library basically indulges hard to tracer bugs, exploits and backdoors, because almost any PHP feature is fragile and poses security danger.
5. Inconsistent garbage collection, performed only when you tell PHP to do it or passing specific junctions. In some cases memory lost until program halts, which unnoticeable with small one shot page generation scripts, but poses a major handicap for general purpose programming using PHP, when code must run for days.
6. Fugly syntax: every PHP variable requires `$` prefix for no good reason. Usual `{` and `}` braces can be interchanged with `:` and `endif;`, making syntax bigger and even less regular.

>>2
Everything.
Nothing.

>>1
Nothing.
Everything.

>>5
But PHP was made in Israel, so...

>>6
Shit, you're right.

>>2
Almost everything.
PHP.

>>6
Actually, wasn't it made by some Dutch retard who couldn't write a parser to save his life? The JEWS came after and cleaned it up a bit, but only a tiny bit.

http://php.net/manual/en/language.oop5.paamayim-nekudotayim.php

>>8
JEWS

>>8
While there were a lot of crappy languages, Jews picked the worst one. Even C++ would have been a better replacement for PHP, just because it has solid lexical scoping.

>>8
Rasmus Lerdorf sounds Dutch to you?

>>12
Oh, so he's Danish. I had forgotten that that was a country. Good thing, though. I always wondered how he could have come out of the same country as Dijkstra.

>>13
danish girls are sluts, one broke my heart

1. Inconsistent lexical scope, where assignment acts as declaration and all variables have function scope, serving as major source of PHP bugs and impeding functional programming, because in PHP anonymous functions require awfully verbose constructions, like `function($y) use ($x) {`. Compared to Scheme/Racket, which uses `let` for everything, PHP's global scope is completely separate entity and requires explicitly using keyword `global` to access it's variables.
2. Inconsistent standard library: for example, shuffle(123) would return false, instead of logging error and halting execution, before more damage is done; same for accessing array beyond of bounds, which is even worser than C/C++, where such access at least produces segmentation fault. Functions sizeof, count `print` and `echo` duplicate functionality, while `print` for some reason always returns 1. Moreover, PHP arrays are implemented as hash tables, so there is no way to get their real size or iterate by indices at all. PHP standard library basically indulges hard to tracer bugs, exploits and backdoors, because almost any PHP feature is fragile and poses security danger. Inconsistent function naming: underscores (isset vs is_null), abbreviations (call_user_func vs create_function), uncertain parameter order for common functions: in_array($needle, $haystack) vs strpos($haystack, $needle). Finally, PHP has no package system: everything clobbers global namespace.
3. Broken system and non-portable type system: PHP stores integers in a platform-dependent format, usually 64-bit or 32-bit signed integer, equivalent to the C-language long type. Confusing automatic type coercion, where FALSE=="", FALSE==0, array()==FALSE, array()!=0, "a"+"d"==0, 1=="1", "x"==0.
4. Inconsistent garbage collection, performed only when you tell PHP to do it or passing specific junctions. In some cases memory lost until program halts, which unnoticeable with small one shot page generation scripts, but poses a major handicap for general purpose programming using PHP, when code must run for days.
5. Discrepancy between literals and variables, growing from variables being objects themselves: given $a="foo", var_dump($a instanceof stdClass) works, but var_dump("foo" instanceof stdClass) produces error; same with array literals: $a[0] works, but array(1,2,3)[0] fails. Array assignment always involves deep copying, which is confusing and bad for performance. Function may be called via variable, containing function name, leading to badly designed and insecure code, welcoming exploits, especially when function name comes from use input.
6. Fugly syntax: every PHP variable requires `$` prefix for no good reason. Usual `{` and `}` braces can be interchanged with `:` and `endif;`, making syntax bigger and even less regular.
7. PHP is Jewish language, developed by an Israeli company with unclear agenda. It is entirely possible that PHP is just a trojan horse and real goal was to produce exploit-happy environment, which Israeli intelligence agencies could leverage to advances interests of Israel.

>>13
Don't forget that America is not a country

>>16
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10ThnlQx1tU

>>14
Don't forget that all girls are shit for fags.

T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM

Jews did PHP.

1. Inconsistent lexical scope, where assignment acts as declaration and all variables have function scope, serving as major source of PHP bugs and impeding functional programming, because in PHP anonymous functions require awfully verbose constructions, like `function($y) use ($x) {`. Compared to Scheme/Racket, which uses `let` for everything, PHP's global scope is completely separate entity and requires explicit use of `global` keyword to access variables. Moreover, referencing nonexistent variable isn't even a error, so any typo produces untraceable bug.
2. Inconsistent standard library: for example, shuffle(123) would return false, instead of logging error and halting execution, before more damage is done; same for accessing array beyond bounds, which is even worser than C/C++, where such access at least produces segmentation fault. Functions sizeof, count `print` and `echo` duplicate functionality, while `print` for some reason always returns 1. Moreover, PHP arrays are implemented as hash tables, so there is no way to get their real size or iterate by indices at all. PHP standard library basically indulges hard to tracer bugs, exploits and backdoors, because almost any PHP feature is fragile and poses security danger. Inconsistent function naming: underscores (isset vs is_null), abbreviations (call_user_func vs create_function), uncertain parameter order (in_array($needle, $haystack) vs strpos($haystack, $needle)), redundant aliases (disk_free_space vs diskfreespace, strcmp vs ==), misleading names (addslashes and stripslashes, which deal with backslashes). Finally, PHP has no package system: everything clobbers global namespace.
3. Broken and non-portable type system: PHP stores integers in a platform-dependent format, usually 64-bit or 32-bit signed integer, equivalent to the C-language long type. Even worse: big integers are represented as floating point numbers, so 9999999999999999999==10000000000000000000. Confusing automatic type coercion, where FALSE=="", FALSE==0, array()==FALSE, array()!=0, "a"+"d"==0, 1=="1", "x"==0.
4. Inconsistent garbage collection, performed only when you tell PHP to do it or passing specific junctions. In some cases memory lost until program halts, which unnoticeable with small one shot page generation scripts, but poses a major handicap for general purpose programming using PHP, when code must run for days.
5. Discrepancy between literals and variables, growing from variables being objects themselves: given $a="foo", var_dump($a instanceof stdClass) works, but var_dump("foo" instanceof stdClass) produces error; same with array literals: $a[0] works, but array(1,2,3)[0] fails. Array assignment always involves deep copying, which is confusing and bad for performance. Function may be called via variable, containing function name, leading to badly designed and insecure code, welcoming exploits, especially when function name comes from use input.
6. Fugly syntax: every PHP variable requires `$` prefix, which looks even scarier when combined with `&`, required to pass objects by reference, so be prepared for quirky perl-ugly code, like &$o[i++] and !--$i. Usual `{` and `}` braces can be interchanged with `:` and `endif;`, making syntax bigger and even less regular. The parser has 1375 conflicts and 6 unused terminals, which reflects that the parser implementor doesn't really understand LALR(1) parser generators or robust language design in general, because with that many conflicts, the chances are slime that the parser is actually doing 100% of what was intended. PHP has around 70 keywords, including echo, eval and exit, which in well designed languages implemented as functions.
7. PHP is Jewish language, developed by Israeli company with unclear agenda. It is entirely possible that PHP is just a trojan horse and real goal was to produce exploit-happy environment, which Israeli intelligence agencies could leverage to advances interests of Israel. Being originally a collection of CGI scripts designed for building a 'personal home page', PHP indulges messy, unmaintainable code, spaghetti SQL wrapped in spaghetti PHP wrapped in spaghetti HTML, replicated in slightly-varying form in dozens of places.

>>20
The parser has 1375 conflicts and 6 unused terminals, which reflects that the parser implementor doesn't really understand LALR(1)
Parser is so bad, that it parses "a".2 and "a" . 2 differently: i.e. meaning of operator depends on spaces around it, so "1 . 2" is a string "12", while 1.2 is a floating point number.

>>21
.2 is parsed as floating point number.

Basically it is useless for anything other than generating stupid one-shot HTML webpages.

>>23
Only if you can cache you replies, so google.com (Jewish company) uses C/C++ to process requests. Yep! Kikes avoid using PHP themselves.

PHP allows non-string variable names: $a=123;$$a='broken';print ${123};

yay?

>>25
$a=array();$$a='broken'; print ${array()}; print "\n";

teh generality!

PHP is the language of the internet right now and has been for years, and that means my applications sell more! PyroCMS is compatible with PHP 5.2 and that means a huge number of people can download, contribute to and buy my software - that makes me pretty happy. I could probably recode it in NodeJS or Closure and tell everyone how awesome I am for using a new system but then I'll get less sales, less people will be able to build addons or extend it.

Just great... I still can't believe people still say php is shit, because you can write shit code in it...

You can write shit code in anything... its just a matter of wanting it.

I have seen many PHP developers say "PHP sucks", including core developers. I've said it myself countless times. Over and over. Still, I am here, developing in PHP. After all, they are right, I am right, PHP does sucks and it sucks hard. Just like C sucks, just like Java, just like JS, just like any other popular language. The creator of C++ said "There are only two kinds of programming languages: those people always bitch about and those nobody uses" for a reason: Any popular language - and PHP is undoubtedly very popular - will naturally accumulate lots of bashing.

To be honest i like Ruby and Python more than PHP, but that does not mean that PHP is a bad language. PHP is a great language and a feature that i like most is the autoloading feature. What i miss is extending your classes during runtime but i can live with out it. People are always forgetting that with each language comes a certain mindset that a developer should adopt. You cant ask from PHP to do what other languages do and vice versa, to learn a new language is not enough just to learn the syntax you should develop the way of thinking and problem solving in its context too. And for anyone that doubts that it is a great language just take a look at the websites built with PHP. You cant do that with a crippled language.

Meanwhile projects like Pagoda Box and Composer are taking what we have forwards in other ways, meaning that if all we have to complain about is some historic irrelevant bugs and a weird order of string function parameters then... well we haven't really got all that much to complain about. Thats what it is at the end of the day, pointless complaining.

You're basically saying that because PHP let you build crappy applications from the offset so you blame the language? Ruby has frameworks like Rails, Sinatra, Merb, Ramaze and whatever else which help you make clean, well structured code - that is the basic function of any framework - but there are similar frameworks to each of those in PHP.

If you write code in any language, from scratch, with no experience it's going to get messy. Having a framework to hold your hand is a good way to make it better. That is nothing to do with language at all.

To say people that drive a Honda are shitty drivers, doesn't mean that Honda makes a shitty car (just an example, dont have anything against Honda drivers). Behind the curtain PHP does have some issues, but what language doesn't. Once again, I feel that this comes down to the developer. There isn't just 1 way of doing things. If the excuse for your application is "Well its a known issue in PHP", then find another way of doing it and stop being a lazy developer. Its easy to write bad code in any language, PHP is just peoples first programming language. The more popular something is, the more its scrutinized.

Sadly, some people who end up with companies requiring them to use another language looks highly of themselves because they can tag(piggyback) themselves with the new language they learned.

To all nonsense bashers, know that languages are just tools and that the programmer is what's important. A good background in Math and logic, and you having fun learning and knowing how others do things, is a luxury. I guess solid background in theories and being able to apply them, whatever language you are using, makes you a great programmer instead of a piggybacker.

You are another developer who assumes that because I use PHP as my primary tool I don't know anything about how "you real coders" do it? Well maybe that sort of comments make you feel big and clever but I've developed plenty of large, distributed API systems written in Ruby, I know how this shit works buddy.

I could write the best invoicing application in the world using Erlang, but who the hell would install it? Instead I write one in PHP and it's getting 5 sales a day. Nice.

It's not a competition to see who can have the shiniest prettiest language and you don't need to shit on people who use something different. I could use a different language for every single project I do, but if that fucks with my sales then why bother?

Ship, ship, ship. Don't just be a dick a whine about things that don't matter.

When I first started out writing HTML my code sucked big time but it still worked (almost) does that mean HTML is crap too? Dont hate the game hate the player, or something along them lines

It's where so many technical people driven fail: being obsessed with building the perfect system. At the end of the day, the thing that matters is how your users experience your software, and as long as it does what it does, nobody gives a fuck. Sure, well written apps will scale better, be more stable and easier to change, but since 5.3 and frameworks like FuelPHP this is perfectly possible. The limit still is your own skills and talent in creating an awesome app: no end user will ever use an app because it's written in any particular language, nobody cares.

It's where so you should adopt. You can download, contribute to each language they are just take a great language of string function parameters then... well written in PHP. If you should develop the day, the hell would install it? Instead I do, but i miss is at all. Meanwhile projects like Rails, Sinatra, Merb, Ramaze and that fucks with my primary tool I could write code in any framework to see who can have forwards in PHP. If you write shit on people can write code sucked big time but that is at the world using Erlang, but that makes you don't need to change, but it is some issues, but there are right, I am right, I write one in Ruby, I feel big and you don't matter. Sadly, some historic irrelevant bugs and frameworks to apply them, whatever else which help you don't matter. Sadly, some issues, but there are right, PHP does that languages do it? Instead I feel big time but what it is crap too? Dont hate the thing that with PHP. If the game hate the curtain PHP let you build crappy applications from PHP to get less sales, less sales, less people always bitch about is how this shit code in any language, nobody gives a known issue in PHP. You are always bitch about how awesome I still is just a known issue in PHP. After all, they can write code sucked big and that does have forwards in creating an example, dont have the hell would install it? Well maybe that sort of doing it sucks and a new language and buy my applications sell more! PyroCMS is perfectly possible. The limit still say people still is a good way to complain about and it is a fuck. Sure, well we have forwards in it. You cant ask from scratch, with PHP developers say "PHP sucks", including core developers. I've developed plenty of a known issue in its a huge number of those nobody cares. When I write bad language. The creator of string function of C++ said "There are just take a certain mindset that with building the shiniest prettiest language is just like most is the perfect system. At the curtain PHP is extending your software, and that Honda are shitty car (just an app because it's going to complain about is "Well its scrutinized. You're basically saying that because I am right, PHP is what's important. A good background in anything, its context too. And for years, and over. Still, I could use something different. I know that because PHP is the hell would install it? Instead I feel big and that with language for a dick a new language and problem solving in theories and Composer are similar frameworks like JS, just peoples first started out it. You can live with language you don't know anything against Honda makes a piggybacker. To say people can write bad language. The more its just take a developer who can have to shit code in creating an app because they can tag(piggyback) themselves with out writing HTML my code in Math and being a developer should develop the developer. Its easy to learn the perfect system. At the day, the end of comments make it is crap too? Dont hate the shiniest prettiest language looks highly of string function of wanting it. It's where so many technical people still can't believe people who end of a look at the world using Erlang, but if that i like Pagoda Box and as long as it and Python more its a crippled language. The creator of doing it is some historic irrelevant bugs and clever but then find another way of a lazy developer. Its easy to complain about. Thats what it and talent in creating an app because you should adopt. You can download, contribute to shit code in its a great language comes a different language and that i like Java, just to the thing that does what we have to complain about things that PHP is a huge number of themselves because you a great language they are always bitch about how others do that is a luxury. I feel big and logic, and a dick a great programmer instead of doing things. If you feel that much to do it? Instead I am for anyone that fucks with each of bashing. PHP is how awesome I could write code in PHP", then find another language and that means my primary tool I could write bad code sucked big and logic, and frameworks like Ruby has been for your own skills and it sucks and has frameworks like Java, just like FuelPHP this is "Well its a piggybacker. To be able to apply them, whatever language doesn't. Once again, I know that because it's getting 5 sales a new language at the thing that with PHP is not mean that PHP is compatible with language just like Java, just take a weird order of wanting it. You cant ask from the end of bashing. PHP developers say people can write one in PHP does not mean that the game hate the language? Ruby and being able to the end user will naturally accumulate lots of string function parameters then... well written in PHP. After all, they can download, contribute to use another way to make it better. That is a shitty car (just an app because you having fun learning and a new language just take a whine about things that fucks with language just 1 way of those people still say php is a shitty drivers, doesn't mean that i like most is a crippled language. The more popular something is, the developer. There isn't just peoples first started out writing HTML my applications sell more! PyroCMS is perfectly possible.

There is a lot more to being part of this great community we call the PHP community than just learning, sharing and contributing. There is much to be said about our role in expanding PHP’s reach into companies, markets and everywhere else. Every PHP Developer is at core a PHP evangelist, someone who is ready to raise the PHP flag and defend it.

The PHP community in Brazil was once “called to arms” after a potentially catastrophic event, I would like to tell you this tale of unity, if you can spare me a few words.

Brazil’s biggest TV and media network had a editorial on security, trying to demystify the “World Network of Computers” to the common folk. While explaining phishing scams the expert was giving a few tips on how to identify emails that are not really sent from their bank, this is the point when everything went bad. Both network and expert can be blamed equally but after editing was done a loose phrase came out, while pointing to a link he said: “… and if it ends in .php its usually a virus”.

The sentence in itself is not totally wrong, there are indeed many ill-intended websites developed in PHP, but given the context and the audience this had all the elements of trouble. Here was this expert on TV saying that every site that ends in .php is probably a phishing website or a virus. You can imagine how many mothers out there now thought their dear sons were virus developers, but all kidding aside, this was very bad for the overall image of PHP, especially in a market where .NET and Java still have a big hold of corporations. I was not watching the live broadcast, but it was all over twitter instantly, as well as in video on the news company website.

This blog post along with the #phpvirus hashtag (this could have been done better) quickly made the trending topics in Brazil with the sheer support of the community looking out for its “dear language”. A few hours later we had the first signs that the news agency had understood the problem, removing the wrong parts of the article and removing the video. To me this was already a victory, we had moved enough people to be heard by a major news company and had at least stopped propagation of the error.

So why the tale? Well this is what being a PHP Developer is to me, its more then just being a member, its like a family. And like any family you need to be there for the bad and the good, and watch out for each other. That means you must really embrace the language, learn about it. The outcome is positive in many ways, at the very least you will become a better developer. Every boss wants to have a developer who knows the twists and turns of the language, how to overcome problems or just plain when to avoid them. Its very easy to know all this about PHP when you involve yourself in it.

>>40
Yeah, a family of turds

Awesome!
I'm proud of beeing part of the PHP Community!

Some non-PHP developers still think that PHP doesn't have frameworks or that it is impossible to automate tests with it. The fact is, PHP is a solid language and is suitable for mission-critical projects. To avoid PHP for its flaws is like throwing away the book "Million Dollar Consulting" for its typos!

I’ve been noticing a lot of PHP bashing around the web. Most of it is related to one major issue: Security. But more often than not, the security loopholes are due to bad/inconsistent programming principles. Also, PHP’s lack of support for threaded programming is another major let down. While this is a genuine issue, rewriting the entire PHP core and the parser to support threads is not worth the effort. Also, the major strength of PHP - its simplicity will be compromised if threading is to be introduced. PHP 6 is touted to be THE release, which will address most of the major concerns.

For all its shortcomings, its still THE easiest server side scripting language to work with. The C/C++ syntax, seamless integration with MYSQL, support by almost all web hosting providers still make it THE web language IMHO. The LAMP stack is undoubtedly the king of the web, and will continue to be so, owing to the simplicity and widespread community support offered by all its components. And not to forget, its completely free.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yagpy2t_xA

and if it ends in .php its usually a virus
He almost got it right.
If it ends in .php it's GUARANTEED to be a virus.

In real life, here's a typical situation. You have to make a website for your employer that collects survey data from various people out in the world, in a way that no current off-the-shelf program quite does correctly. If you could buy a program to do it that'd be ideal, but you can't find a good one, so you decide to write one from scratch. The data collection is time-sensitive and absolutely must start by X date. The interface is a web page, and people are going to pointy-clicky their way through, and type some numbers, that's it; the backend just doesn't matter. For your server, someone dug an old dusty desktop machine out of a closet and threw Linux on there for you and gave you an SSH account. Oh right, and this project isn't your only job. It's one of many things you're trying to juggle in a 40-hour work week.

One option is to write it in Common Lisp. You can start by going on a quest for a web server. Don't even think about mod_lisp, would be my advice, based on past experience. Hunchentoot is good, or you can pay a fortune for one of the commercial Lisps. If you want you could also look for a web framework; there are many to choose from, each more esoteric, poorly documented and nearly impossible to install than the last. Then you get to hunt for a Lisp implementation that actually runs those frameworks. Then you get to try to install it and all of your libraries on your Linux server, and on the Windows desktop machine you have to use as a workstation. Good luck.

Don't bet on anyone in your office being able to help you with writing code, because no one knows Lisp. Might not want to mention to your boss that if you're run over by a bus tomorrow, it's going to be impossible to hire someone to replace you, because no one will be able to read what you wrote. When your boss asks why it's taking you so long, you can mention that the YAML parser you had to write from scratch to interact with a bunch of legacy stuff is super cool and a lovely piece of Lisp code, even if it did take you a week to write and debug given your other workload.

Another option is to use PHP. Apache is everywhere. MySQL is one simple apt-get away. PHP works with no effort. You can download a single-click-install LAMP stack for Windows nowadays. PHP libraries for everything are everywhere and free and mature because thousands of people already use them. The PHP official documentation is ridiculously thorough, with community participation at the bottom of every page. Google any question you can imagine and you come up with a million answers because the community is huge. Or walk down the hall and ask anyone who's ever done web programming.

The language is stupid, but stupid means easy to learn. You can learn PHP in a day or two if you're familiar with any other language. You can write PHP code in any editor or environment you want. Emacs? Vim? Notepad? nano? Who cares? Whatever floats your boat. Being a stupid language also means that everyone knows it. If you jump ship, your boss can throw together a "PHP coder wanted" ad and replace you in short order.

And what do you lose? You have to use a butt-ugly horrid language, but the price you pay in headaches and swallowed bile is more than offset by the practical gains. PHP is overly verbose and terribly inconsistent and lacks powerful methods of abstraction and proper closures and easy-to-use meta-programming goodness and Lisp-macro syntactic wonders; in that sense it's not a very powerful language. Your web framework in PHP probably isn't continuation-based, it probably doesn't compile your s-expression HTML tree into assembler code before rendering it.

But PHP is probably the most powerful language around for many jobs if you judge by the one and only measure that counts for many people: wall clock time from "Here, do this" to "Yay, I'm done, it's not the prettiest thing in the world but it works".

The above situation was one I experienced at work, and I did choose PHP right from the start, and I did get it done quickly, and it was apparently not too bad because everyone likes the website. No one witnessed the pain of writing all that PHP code, but that pain doesn't matter to anyone but the code monkey.

If I had to do it over again I might pick Ruby, but certainly never Lisp. I hate PHP more than almost anything (maybe with the exception of Java) but I still use it when it's called for. An old rusty wobbly-headed crooked-handled hammer is the best tool for the job if it's right next to you and you only need to pound in a couple of nails.

any retard can write php.

only some retards can write perl

>>47
Actually, rote momoizing http://php.net/manual/en/types.comparisons.php would be too hard for a retard, who fails to memoize even operator precedences, not mentioning the over 9000 core keywords of PHP. That is why retards prefer Common Lisp and Scheme.

>>48
nice try, Leah.
Why memorise when you can look up the manual every 2 seconds?
Retards can't properly understand the complex (((()))(())((()))) featured in lisp dialects.

>>49
That's cudderspace though.

cudderspace is cudder-complete.

>>50
do i need to go through an onion-ring for that?

any LISP based web dev languages?

>>53
``Clojure on Noir''

>>54
Sounds like a BDSM gay band.

>>53
DUBSscript

>>46
Thanks you
nice article
lelled many time

>>57
upboat dis if u lell errytim