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Haskell

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-10 20:35

Was there ever a copypasta that listed Haskell's flaws? Sort of like that Python one. If not, there should be one.

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-10 20:38

???????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????? ???????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????? ???????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????? ???????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????? ???????????? ???????????????? ???????? ????????????????????????????????????????????
???????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????????, ???????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????? ???????????????????? ???????? ???????????? ????????????????????????????????, ???? ???????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????? ???????? ????????????????????????????, ????????????????????, ????????????????-???????????????????????????? ???????????????????????? ???????????????? ???????????????? ????????????????????????
???????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????? ???????????????? ???????? ???????????????????????????? ???????????? ???????????????????????? ???????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????? ???????????? ???????????? ????????????.

???????? ???????? ???? ???????????????? ???????? ???????????????????????? ????????????, ???????????????????????????? ???????? ???????????????????????? ???????????????????? ???????????? ???????????????????????????? ???????????? ???????? ???????????????????????? ???????????? ???????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????? ???????? ???????????? ????????????????????????????????.

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-10 20:54

Holy shit.

How do you write like that?

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-10 21:03

>>3
#\MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_<letter>

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-10 21:04

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-10 21:06

#\MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_L#\MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_i#\MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_s#\MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_p #\MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_i#\MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_s #\MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_S#\MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_h#\MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_i#\MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_t#\MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_e

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-10 21:06

#\MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_<N>

#\MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_N

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-10 21:07

\MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_<S>

\MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_S

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-10 21:08

#MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_<S>
#MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_S


#MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_<S>#
#MATHEMATICAL_BOLD_SCRIPT_SMALL_S#

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-10 21:08

????

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-10 21:09

>>5
in mathematics an italic "A" can have a different meaning from a roman letter "A".
time to send some letter from my new shiny ????dmin account.

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-10 21:10

>>6>>7>>8>>9
lolretard.

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-10 23:57

still nobody can tell us any flaws with haskell

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-11 0:00

>>13
FOIC

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-11 0:01

``ℒℯ ℛℯ????????????????''
``???????? ???????????????? ℌ???????????????????? ????????????????''
``/????????????????/''

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-11 0:05

>>14
alignment ≠ indentation

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-11 0:28

>>16
Five words: force alignment of the code.

This thread has ended peacefully.

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-11 0:32

>>17
when arent you aligning your code?

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-11 0:55

DEM ``A''S
AAᗅΑАᎪꓮ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-11 0:57

>>15
Are you a Wizard?

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-11 2:44

You can use curly braces and semicolons in Haskell.

Name: OP 2012-09-11 2:55

Thanks to http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1347344018/2 for posting the copypasta. Bye now.

- Just like C++, Haskell is very hard to learn, and takes years to master. Things like Monads, Functors, Monoids, Higher-Order Types and a myriad of morphisms are hard to understand, especially without mathematical background. Most programmers probably don't have the ability or will to learn Haskell. Learning Haskell's syntax, libraries, functional programming techniques won't bring you closer to understanding: the true path to understand Haskell lies through Monoid-Functor-Applicative-Arrow-Monad. And even if you mange to learn Haskell, programming it still hogs a lot of brain resources, which could have been put to something more useful than just showing off about how clever you can be. "Haskell for Kids" even proposes exposing children to Haskell from yearly age, meaning Haskell, similar to mathematics and natural language, will be much harder to grasp at older age. "Zygohistomorphic prepromorphism: Zygo implements semi-mutual recursion like a zygomorphism. Para gives you access to your result à la paramorphism.", "Haskell is not 'a little different,' and will not 'take a little time.' It is very different and you cannot simply pick it up" -- HaskellWiki
- Poor backward compatibility: haskellers "don't want to replicate Java, which is outright flawed in order to avoid even the most unlikely of broken code", meaning they don't care if new version of GHC will break your code. Haskell projects are struggling under the weight of "DLL hell": typical Haskell package consist of just a few lines of code, thus many other projects depend on dozens of different packages, either directly or indirectly. It's near-impossible to embark on a serious Haskell project without spending time fighting dependency version issues.
- Haskell is slow and leaks memory. GHC's inefficient stop-the-world GC does not scale. A good understanding of evaluation order is very important for writing practical programs. People using Haskell often have no idea how evaluation affects the efficiency. It is no coincidence that Haskell programmers end up floundering around with space and time leaks that they do not understand. Functions take time to complete and debugging for time leaks is much more difficult than to debug for type errors. "The next Haskell will be strict." -- Simon Peyton-Jones
- Haskell's API lacks higher levels of abstraction, due to absence of variadic functions, optional arguments and keywords. Macros aren't possible either, due to overly complex syntax of Haskell. API documentation is very lacking: if you want to use regexes, you start at Text.Regex.Posix, seeing that =~ and =~~ are the high level API, and the hyperlinks for those functions go to Text.Regex.Posix.Wrap, where the main functions are not actually documented at all, so you look at the type signatures, trying to understand them and they are rather intimidating (class RegexOptions regex compOpt execOpt => RegexMaker regex compOpt execOpt source | regex -> compOpt execOpt, compOpt -> regex execOpt, execOpt -> regex compOpt where). They are using multi-parameter type classes and functional dependencies. The signature really wont give you any clue to how to actually use this API, which is a science in itself. Haskell is a language where memoization is a PhD-level topic.
- Haskell programming relies on mathematical modeling with type system (a version of mathematical Set Theory). If one does not use the type system for anything useful, it obviously will be nothing but a burden. Programs are limited by the expressiveness of the type system of the language - e.g. heterogeneous data structures aren't possible w/o reinventing explicit tagging. All that makes Haskell bad for prototyping or anything new, due to need of having design document with all types beforehand, which changes often during prototyping. Complex project are forced to reinvent dynamic typing. For instance, Grempa uses dynamic typing because the semantic action functions are put in an array indexing rule and production numbers (Ints) to functions, and they all have different types and so can not be put in an ordinary array expecting the same type for each element.
- The IDE options cannot be as good as those of dynamic programming languages, due to absence of run-time information and access to running program's state. Haskell's necrophilia forces you to work with "dead" code. Like other static languages, Haskell isn't well-known for its "reload on the fly" productivity. No eval or self-modifying code. Haskell code can't be changed without recompiling half of application and restarting the process. GHCI - is the best Haskell's interactivity can get, and still wont allow you to change types during runtime, while the single assignment semantics prevents redefinition of functions. As said Simon Peyton-Jones, "In the end, any program must manipulate state. A program that has no side effects whatsoever is a kind of black box. All you can tell is that the box gets hotter."
- Type system produced compile-time and link-time errors are distracting and make it harder to run and test your code, while type-checking isn't a substitute for testing, it is about correspondence to mathematical model, which has nothing to do with correctness - i.e. two numbers can be integers, but their quotient can still result into division by zero. Even though you may hear strong static-typing advocates say, "When your program type-checks, you'll often find that it just works", this is simply not true for large, intricate programs. Although type-checking may help you find model-related errors, it is not the same as testing.
- Absence of dynamic scope, implicit open recursion, late binding, and duck typing severely limits Haskell, since there are things that can't be done easily without these features: you can't implement dynamic scope in general (and be type-safe) without converting your entire program to use tagged values. So in this respect, Haskell is inferior to dynamic typing languages.
- Haskell makes it easy to write cryptic programs that no-one understands, not even yourself a few days later. Rich, baroque syntax, lazy evaluation and a tradition defining an operator for every function - all help obfuscation a lot. As a general rule, Haskell syntax is incredibly impenetrable: who in their right mind thought up the operators named .&., <|> and >>=?

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-11 4:37

>22
GHC no longer has a stop-the-world GC. It now has this, coincidentally written by Simon Peyton Jones himself:

http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/simonpj/papers/parallel/local-gc.pdf

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-11 9:37

Can someone give me the list for Python that is said to exist according to a homosexual commonly referred to as ``OP"

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-11 9:46

Haskell = Ask Hell

ENJOY SATAN'S DICK ASSHOLES

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-11 9:54

>>25
Haskell = Ezekiel (יְחֶזְקֵאל) is the central protagonist of the Book of Ezekiel in the Hebrew Bible.

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-11 10:03

>>26
U MENA ZUL-KIFL ???

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-11 10:58

>>26
Shalom!

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-11 12:20

Haskell's biggest flaw is not being dependently typed.

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-11 12:35

Here's the Python kopipe.

- Everything you write will be open source. No FASLs, DLLs or EXEs. Developer may want to have control over the level of access to prevent exposure of internal implementation, as it may contain proprietary code or because strict interface/implementation decomposition is required. Python third-party library licensing is overly complex. Licenses like MIT allow you to create derived works as long as you maintain attrubution; GNU GPL, or other 'viral' licenses don't allow derived works without inheriting the same license. To inherit the benefits of an open source culture you also inherit the complexities of the licensing hell.
- Installation mentality, Python has inherited the idea that libraries should be installed, so it infact is designed to work inside unix package management, which basically contains a fair amount of baggage (library version issues) and reduced portability. Of course it must be possible to package libraries with your application, but its not conventional and can be hard to deploy as a desktop app due to cross platform issues, language version, etc. Open Source projects generally don't care about Windows, most open source developers use Linux because "Windows sucks".
- Probably the biggest practical problem with Python is that there's no well-defined API that doesn't change. This make life easier for Guido and tough on everybody else. That's the real cause of Python's "version hell".
- Global Interpreter Lock (GIL) is a significant barrier to concurrency. Due to signaling with a CPU-bound thread, it can cause a slowdown even on single processor. Reason for employing GIL in Python is to easy the integration of C/C++ libraries. Additionally, CPython interpreter code is not thread-safe, so the only way other threads can do useful work is if they are in some C/C++ routine, which must be thread-safe.
- Python (like most other scripting languages) does not require variables to be declared, as (let (x 123) ...) in Lisp or int x = 123 in C/C++. This means that Python can't even detect a trivial typo - it will produce a program, which will continue working for hours until it reaches the typo - THEN go boom and you lost all unsaved data. Local and global scopes are unintuitive. Having variables leak after a for-loop can definitely be confusing. Worse, binding of loop indices can be very confusing; e.g. "for a in list: result.append(lambda: fcn(a))" probably won't do what you think it would. Why nonlocal/global/auto-local scope nonsense?
- Python has a faulty package system. Type time.sleep=4 instead of time.sleep(4) and you just destroyed the system-wide sleep function with a trivial typo. Now consider accidentally assigning some method to time.sleep, and you won't even get a runtime error - just very hard to trace behavior. And sleep is only one example, it's just as easy to override ANYTHING.
- Crippled support for functional programming. Python's lambda is limited to a single expression and doesn't allow conditionals. Python makes a distinction between expressions and statements, and does not automatically return the last expressions, thus crippling lambdas even more. Assignments are not expressions. Most useful high-order functions were deprecated in Python 3.0 and have to be imported from functools. No continuations or even tail call optimization: "I don't like reading code that was written by someone trying to use tail recursion." --Guido
- Python's syntax, based on SETL language and mathematical Set Theory, is non-uniform, hard to understand and parse, compared to simpler languages, like Lisp, Smalltalk, Nial and Factor. Instead of usual "fold" and "map" functions, Python uses "set comprehension" syntax, which has overhelmingly large collection of underlying linguistic and notational conventions, each with it's own variable binding semantics. Using CLI and automatically generating Python code is hard due to the so called "off-side" indentation rule (aka Forced Indentation of Code), also taken from a math-intensive Haskell language. This, in effect, makes Python look like an overengineered toy for math geeks. Good luck discerning [f(z) for y in x for z in gen(y) if pred(z)] from [f(z) if pred(z) for z in gen(y) for y in x]
- Python hides logical connectives in a pile of other symbols: try seeing "and" in  "if y > 0 or new_width > width and new_height > height or x < 0".
- Python indulges messy horizontal code (> 80 chars per line), where in Lisp one would use "let" to break computaion into manageable pieces. Get used to stuff like self.convertId([(name, uidutil.getId(obj)) for name, obj in container.items() if IContainer.isInstance(obj)])
- Quite quirky: triple-quoted strings seem like a syntax-decision from a David Lynch movie, and double-underscores, like __init__, seem appropriate in C, but not in a language that provides list comprehensions. There are better ways to mark certain features as internal or special than just calling it __feature__. self everywhere can make you feel like OO was bolted on, even though it wasn't.
- Python has too many confusing non-orthogonal features: references can't be used as hash keys; expressions in default arguments are calculated when the function is defined, not when it’s called. Why have both dictionaries and objects? Why have both types and duck-typing? Why is there ":" in the syntax if it almost always has a newline after it? The Python language reference devotes a whole sub-chapter to "Emulating container types", "Emulating callable Objects", "Emulating numeric types", "Emulating sequences" etc. -- only because arrays, sequences etc. are "special" in Python. Subtle data types (list and tuple, bytes and bytearray) will make you wonder "Do I need the mutable type here?", while Clojure and Haskell manage to do with only immutable data.
- Python's GC uses naive reference counting, which is slow and doesn't handle circular references, meaning you have to expect subtle memory leaks and can't easily use arbitrary graphs as your data. In effect Python complicates even simple tasks, like keeping directory tree with symlinks.
- Patterns and anti-patterns are signs of deficiencies inherent in the language.  In Python, concatenating strings in a loop is considered an anti-pattern merely because the popular implementation is incapable of producing good code in such a case. The intractability or impossibility of static analysis in Python makes such optimizations difficult or impossible.
- Problems with arithmetic: no Numerical Tower (nor even rational/complex numbers), meaning 1/2 would produce 0, instead of 0.5, leading to subtle and dangerous errors.
- Poor UTF support and unicode string handling is somewhat awkward.
- No outstanding feature, that makes the language, like the brevity of APL or macros of Lisp. Python doesn’t really give us anything that wasn’t there long ago in Lisp and Smalltalk.

Name: Anonymous 2012-09-11 12:50

Haskell's flaws?
- GC

GC is shit.

Don't change these.
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