good programmers dont need to optimize

There is a lot of talk about code optimisation and I dont think people realise that good programmers dont have to optimise their code as a separate step. That with modern compilers, operating systems and CPU pipelining, the only optimisation that has to be done is with algorithms and data structures which the programmer should already be using automatically as part of the design process. For example programmers used to need to optimise for things like barrel shifters, but modern CPU architecture has made that all obsolete as the CPU does that kind of optimisation for you now. Using asm is still relevant for things like device drivers, but on an OS with modern compilers there is no way a programmer is going to beat modern compiler optimisation by doing assembly by hand. The OS abstracts away all the hardware and memory details that programmers used to have to manage by hand. So this is the golden age of programming, where true programming skill counts for making fast programs and not second guessing hardware intricacies.

with modern compilers there is no way a programmer is going to beat modern compiler optimisation by doing assembly by hand
Lel you have never even seen the output of a ``modern compiler.'' Everyone else sees hardware improvements as a necessity to support the software they are building. They intend to use the hardware, not squander it on pussy GCs and runtimes.

>>2
Lel you have never even seen the output of a ``modern compiler.''
on a small level an ace asm coder can beat a compiler as compilers arent perfect and will waste a few machine instructions here and there. But on a large level it has been shown best asm coder cant see the 'large picture' as well as an optimised compiler.

>>3
optimised
How's that Sharia law, Britfag?

>>1
GCC doesn't even use fucking SIMD. Leaving all ``optimizations'' to the compiler gods is stupid.

This is a terrible mentality. Good programmers will know when to not bother with a minor optimization detail, but will still apply ones to situations that warrant them. I conclude you to not be an ``expert programmer'', >>1-san.

>>5
>>1-san
You're not so great yourself, 5-kun.

>>4
I dont get that. If its about spelling, thats what spellcheck came up with. Not Brit btw.

>>6
My point still stands.

>>7
That's the British/proper spelling of the word.
Britain is being taken over by Muslims, and having their state laws overpowered by religious Sharia laws.
Hence >>4's comment.

British/proper
That's like saying "Java/non-enterprise"

Britain is being taken over by Muslims, and having their state laws overpowered by religious Sharia laws.
They were already taken over by French faggots almost 1000 years ago. Most Britfags will bend over and take Sharia dicks up their asses, just like their French cousins.

>>10
That's like saying "Java/non-enterprise"
Nope. Every other English speaking country besides Amerrrrca (and Mexico, where they do use English) uses that set of spellings.

ENTERPRISE QUALITY post, would have been even more so if you mentioned a ``profiler''

>>11
That's because they were all still owned by Britfagland (and by proxy, France) when the Britfags changed the way they spell those words.

yeah >>1-san why the fuck should I optimize
that's why i bubble sort everything

>>12
Lel, the most ive ever been paid in my life was to run a profiler and shoot off a few emails about it.

>>14

That with modern compilers, operating systems and CPU pipelining, the only optimisation that has to be done is with algorithms and data structures which the programmer should already be using automatically as part of the design process.

>>16
reading is for faggots

>>17
fuck you america

"He who hasn't hacked assembly language as a youth has no heart. He who does as an adult has no brain."

>>19
ooooh, thats deep

>>19
AᗺBA - I wonder

This tree and these patches, old code I have walked
Everything dear, will it be here
One day when I'm IRETurning
My registers will get restored, same memory and flags
It sounds so nice, well-planned and wise
Never expecting a page fault

I wonder, it's frightening
Switching now, is that the right thing
I wonder, it scares me
But who the hell am I if I don't even try
I'm not a coward
Oh no, I'll be strong
One chance in a runtime
Yes I will take it, it can't go wrong

My flags and my memory, this dull little mov
Cachelines I've missed, make me so pissed
Everything's slow and annoying

I wonder, it's frightening
Switching now, is that the right thing
I wonder, it scares me
But who the hell am I if I don't even try
I'm not a coward
Oh no, I'll be strong
One chance in a runtime
Yes I will take it oh yes
Yes I will take it, it can't go wrong

Yes I will take it, it can't go segmentation fault

>>18
All of America? I don't think Guyana has done anything bad to you...

You actually have to know what optimizations your compiler can do and under what circumstances.  By heart.  And routinely check its assembly output.  Sometimes you have to work around these optimizations.

If you use another compiler (very unlikely if you write C++ and your project is in advanced stage of development but possible otherwise) performance may go to trash.

But if you are a low-income disposable code monkey like >>1 it does not apply to you.

>>24

who is the code monkey, the one who spends a year on a single application on a single platform and then spends another two years porting the application to 6 other platforms and maintaining each port, or the one who uses suboptimal code to implement the singularity which then re-implements itself in 6 hours in optimal machine code, produces all applications requested by humankind, completely eliminates programming as a possible means of income for humans, uses itself to further develop and advance itself, and eventually completely eliminates humanity and forms a new robotic society that peacefully coexists with animals.

>>25
yes, somebody here gets it
Fran Allen gets it
manually managed languages are dead
go die bjarne

http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1343228142/194

tl;dr: Compilers today are far short of what they could be doing, stick to Asm for ultimate efficency until they figure it out.

Programmer time is more valuable than machine time
THREAD OVER

>>28
I agree with you. Don't waste your time trying to grok the compiler; write in assembly directly.

>>27,29
Why not write in hexadecimal opcodes, im sure there is no use letting to the assembler hide things from you.

Also lol what the fuck is it with this efficiency bullshit? Is this another of these unix brain diseases?

Dont people actually want to get work done? Seriously, im curious why people think like that?

>>30
>implying ASM mnemonics hide anything from you
>implying they don't map on a 1:1 level with hex opcodes
>implying efficiency isn't one of the core goals of the field of computer science

>>31
>implying they don't map on a 1:1 level with hex opcodes
I see that you've never used MASM.

>implying efficiency isn't one of the core goals of the field of computer science
Assembly is not always the fastest.

>>32
Uh... you're right, I've never used MASM. Does it try and optimize your code or something?

>>33
http://www.nasm.us/doc/nasmdoc2.html#section-2.2

>>34
It didn't even list INVOKE, which for reference is an entire function call with inline arguments that also supports function declarations.

FASM > MASM > NASM

>>36
fasm isn't in the Debian repos, and I don't feel like auditing a thousand kLoCs of assembly code.

>>32
le implying xD

upboats xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

/g/ is le awesome

LOL I JUST LITERALLY

PEED
MY
PANTS

JUST A LITTE THOUGH

I MEAN ITS A LITTLE SPOT NOT LIKE IT RUINED MY CHAIR R NYTHING LOL BUT FOR REAL EPIC LULZ *HIGH FIVES* XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD


U FRUSTRATED U FRUSTRATED BRO U SO MAD WHY ARE YOU SO MAAAAD I CAN POST ANYTHING I WANT THAT IS HOW IT SAYS IN THE RULES I DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR FAGGOTRY RULES Y SO MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD


WHATA FUCK MAN xD i just fall of my chair kuz i couldnt and i CANT stop laugh xDXDXDXDXDDDDDDDDDDDDXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD OMGOSH DDDDDXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD DDDDDD LOOOOOOOOOLLLLL THIS IS A SHIT XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD A BIG ONE XDDDDDDDD A GRAT ONE XXXXXXDDDD CONGRATS MAN XD
U FRUSTRATED U FRUSTRATED BRO U SO MAD WHY ARE YOU SO MAAAAD I CAN POST ANYTHING I WANT THAT IS HOW IT SAYS IN THE RULES I DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR FAGGOTRY RULES Y SO MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD

WHATA FUCK MAN xD i just fall of my chair kuz i couldnt and i CANT stop laugh xDXDXDXDXDDDDDDDDDDDDXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD OMGOSH DDDDDXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD DDDDDD LOOOOOOOOOLLLLL THIS IS A SHIT hgXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD A BIG ONE XDDDDDDDD A GRAT ONE XXXXXXDDDD CONGRATS MAN XD

HOOOOOOOOLLLLLLYYYYY SHIT

whatr the HELL

WHATA FUCK MAN xD

i just fall of my chair kuz i couldnt and i CANT stop laugh

xDXDXDXDXDDDDDDDDDDDDXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

OMGOSH

DDDDDXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD DDDDDD LOOOOOOOOOLLLLL

THIS IS A SHIT

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

A BIG ONE

XDDDDDDDD

A GRAT ONE

XXXXXXDDDD