First steps.

Hey /prog/, i am kinda new to this board. I'd like to learn C++ or other related language, any tips or stuff that can help me? Ps. I will probably use Code::blocks or dev-cpp.

C++ will be a lot of frustration, and you will only hate yourself later on for wasting your time with it once you discover a better language.

If you take my advice, you will become a programming wizard in the shortest time possible.  Install MIT Scheme and read SICP ( http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html ).

If SICP is too confusing for you, it's alright.  Just point your favourite torrent site to the near copy of the book ,,Land Of Lisp'' and just read it.

Feel free to call me an idiot or to disparage me.  But I strongly believe that this is the fastest path to knowledge.

Oh and when you're done with Lisp, learn assembly for your favourite architecture (it's going to take you a day or two at most).  That will allow you to understand how the CPU itself works.

Enjoy your journey, fellow programmer.

^_DO you _{want to} ^learn _to ^{program _or} do ^_you want to _learn ^{languages? If _its the} _{second then} ^{join c++ on _freenode.net}

Install Gentoo.

>>2
Not >>1 here, but I want to learn a little Lisp too. What interpreter should I get ? Common Lisp or Scheme ?

>>2
Not OP, but I program in Clojure. Also C.
Sepples is the most wet and steaming pile of shit I've ever have to face.

OP here. I will take your advice >>2 wish me luck.

>>6 Why you say that?

>>5
First, if you want to get started with Lisp, set yourself up a nice cozy Emacs + Paredit + CUA mode + rainbow-delimiters.  Here's my .emacs:

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[/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup][/sub][/sup]

Next, you need to decide what you're going to study.  If you want to study SICP, then get MIT Scheme.  If you want to read Land of Lisp instead (which uses Common Lisp), then you'll probably use SBCL.

Either way, after you've completed your study you should be able to pick up any other language (including any other Lisp dialect) very easily.

>>5
First, if you want to get started with Lisp, set yourself up a nice cozy Emacs + Paredit + CUA mode + rainbow-delimiters.  Here's my .emacs:

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Next, you need to decide what you're going to study.  If you want to study SICP, then get MIT Scheme.  If you want to read Land of Lisp instead (which uses Common Lisp), then you'll probably use SBCL.

Either way, after you've completed your study you should be able to pick up any other language (including any other Lisp dialect) very easily.

Oh and one last thing; Emacs Lisp ("elisp") is a disgusting Lisp dialect; to avoid permanent brain damage, exposure should be reduced to a minimum.

>>7
What should be simple, like pass objects as reference to a function becomes hell when you take in account things like access modifiers.
Besides, object oriented assembler? OH YOU

>>1
C++ is good. Don't listen to haters.

Though, Python might be better for beginner. Or just plain C.

>>12
C++ is complex and is not recommended for beginners because of the complex subtleties involved. C and Python are practical languages for any beginner to learn.

>>12
C is what you teach students when you believe they're too stupid to understand assembly.
Python is nice at first, but you quickly realize how quirky and badly-designed it really is.
C++ is a lovecraftian monstrosity; the more you learn about it, the more likely you are to become insane.  Only Haskell and INTERCAL are worse.

>>5
Not >>2 here, but SICP uses Scheme and Land of Lisp uses CLisp, so preferably whichever you are reading from. I'm reading my SICP and playing around with Scheme in Edwin and enjoying it.

>>14
DO NOT MOCK INTERCAL
PLEASE DO SHUT UP
DO GO BACK TO REDDIT

Don't use either of those. Use Visual Studio and Visual C++. The debugger is second to none, and a good debugger can help you learn almost as much as a book can.

Oh god, please do not tell me you develop your software by stepping through the debugger and patching what is going wrong on your way through the code, instead of thinking before you start something?

>>18
One can do both.

>>18
No. I don't edit while the debugger is running. Stepping through is just to see the control flow post facto.

>>18
Writing bug free code was a simply matter of thinking, then nobody cares about writing bug free code.

racket is better than common lisp, you niggers

>>21
>then nobody cares
I guess because of these highly interactive debuggers that try to think for you.

"I stepped through this code. It seems to work. Guess it will always work."

>>10
Oh and one last thing; Emacs Lisp ("elisp") is a disgusting Lisp dialect; to avoid permanent brain damage, exposure should be reduced to a minimum.
do you say that because its dynamically scoped or are there other reasons you think its bad?

>>23
not unit testing

devcpp and code::blocks are massive sacks of shit
using anything other than the free versions of xcode on a mac and visual studio on a pc is criminal

>>26
Xcode is terrible, but it's the best thing on OS ecks

>>24
Also because it's a Lisp-2.  Honestly, if Common Lisp was a Lisp-1 and didn't have its numerous little idiosyncrasies, I'd stop recommending trying out Scheme to people.

>>26
mac
not a pc
10/10

http://www.reddit.com/r/asmr/

OP here. Well i wanted to start today, but after i read new post i got confused. >>26 You think i should use 'visual studio' only?
Others say something about Lisps and other stuff, what to do..

>>2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM1Zb3xmvMc

>31
>>26 Is a troll, ignore.
If you really want to C++ or related, just get codeblocks or whatever, but be prepared for some pain.

Also lisp is a decent language, you should learn it later or before C++;
Learning lips before C++ would progably make it a bit easier.

>>33
Another thing, if you chose to learn lisp go with scheme. CL is ugly, just like C++.

>>33
Okay, so i will probably want to learn lisp and then C++.
>>34
You say that i should use scheme?

Any links guys? I dont want to get another shit with after painfull download wont work. Thanks.

λBLλSλN λ SλSSMλN

C++ is a good language. It is not a perfect language because it inherits from C. C is a flawed language where many things are left undefined. C is an ancient artifact that serves no purpose outside of the domain of kernel design. Because of the improvements made upon C to form C++, beginning programmers and veteran programmers alike may be led astray, thinking that modern C usage is a good idea. It is a mistake to believe the success of C++ justifies the continued use and popularity of C. Just because C++ is successful does not mean the language it has inherited from is of high quality.

>>35

welcome to the cult, new one

http://community.schemewiki.org/?scheme-faq-standards#implementations

>>35
MIT Scheme: http://www.gnu.org/software/mit-scheme/ (or "mit-scheme" in your package manager if you're on Linux)
Common Lisp: http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html (or "sbcl" in your package manager)

>>38
>>39
Thanks very much, i will try that in a sec.

>>39
FFFF, i cannot install SBCL because i'm running windows x64. I have to make VM and put Linux on it i guess, damn. Any tips?

>>41
Well, you could try, at your own risk, using some other implementation ( http://stackoverflow.com/questions/110390/whats-a-good-common-lisp-implementation-for-windows ), or you can go ahead and make a VM with Linux on it (or dual-boot for speed, ask your local linux techie so you don't accidentally lose data).  Since you're a newbie, you should probably go with Kubuntu.

>>42
If the most secure way is Kubuntu, i will go for it i guess.

>>41
I didn't know Windows supported PPC64

>>44
mhm.

>>41
Or use a live usb stick with a linux distro that has SBCL pre installed.

>>46
Which is..?

>>42
CLISP is actually alright for windows. The FFI system works with the windows API and everything.

>>47
Wish i knew.

Okay, ive downloaded GNU Common Lisp. It is working, i was tetsing it with emacs but it pissed me off. When i accidentaly deleted ">>" i couldnt do shit, so i downloaded lispide. Are there any good scripts for this program?