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New Talk from the Sussman

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-27 12:31

Name: sagetron 2011-10-27 12:50

thats why we have computers bozo

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-27 12:55

>>1
You aren't paying me enough to think. Fuck off.

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-27 13:02

>>2
>>3

Fascinating.

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-27 14:05

Great talk, as expected from The Sussman.
We were fighting about what a computer (a thing that does computation) is and does, he comes and says ``Look, you're both wrong''.
I wonder the propagator architecture will ever get an hardware implementation. In-hardware TMS would be sweet, too.

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-27 15:14

IVE WATCHED We Really Don't Know How To Compute!

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-27 15:15

I LOVE SUSSMAN

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-27 16:07

Beamer presentation
MMXI

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-27 16:37

>>7
Life GET.

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-27 17:07

Okay, so first he talks a bit about biologic systems...
I will not deny, it is cute to see a Lisper discovering subsymbolic methods, but he is romanticizing it something fierce.  While biological evolution can, under the right circumstances, result in a level of robustness, it inherently tends to produce horrible and unmaintainable spaghetti systems with only incidental organization.

He also brushes aside security issues by referring to bacteria, which misses the point.  Bacteria are not trying to kill you at all; they do not constitute a determined attacker.  Ultimately the immune system provides robustness, not security.
If you really wanted to kill a human, you could easily make a killer virus or bacteria to do so, or you could kill in a thousand other way.

Then he loses the biology and spends the rest of the talk doing little programming tricks.  Automatic derivation, deduction systems, truth maintenance systems.  Okay, fine, that's neat, but it looks like very classical Lisp thinking.  Just playing around with symbolic stuff.
How will any of that help users do what they want to do?  What practical system could you compose out of those pieces?  If you have a barrel-load of picoprocessors inside your concrete, it is presumably not to distributedly compute square roots, fibs and the height of the building by barometer.
But I lie, because a very relevant application of intelligent concrete could be to calculate load and detect early signs of structural weakness...  This would probably involve distributed, robust, iterative calculation of the kind he at one point discusses, but, you do not need a mythical language of the future to do that.  You would figure out the formulas, and then you would write it in C, or assembly, or whatever format lies close to the nature of the hardware.

But, he points out, he is not advocating that specific approach, he's advocating any approach which has a chance of freeing us from the current state of affairs.
I am led to think he is asking for the Silver Bullet.
There is essential complexity in programming, argued Fred Brooks, details that you cannot escape because they matter.  Do not sweat the details, says the Sussman, but he does not know what details we should not sweat.  When we throw away our blindfold of architecture, what will we see?  He does not tell.

This video was by no means a horrible watch, but I feel that he failed to fully address the topic of the talk.

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-27 18:39

>>10
interesting, but check em

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-27 18:58

>>10
I enjoyed the tricks. Check this out:
http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/gjs/6946/index.html

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-27 19:37

>>1
He's wearing glasses that have flip-down shades, but the flip-down shades aren't any darker than his normal lenses.

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-27 19:41

>>1
OMG OMG itz teh Sooooooooossmans!!

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-28 0:30

this is awesome

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-28 0:31

WHY did the triangle cross the street?
We don't know

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-28 0:42

>>10
OP here, thanks for your input. I pretty much felt the same way, even though Sussman is like a god to me. You just put it in far better words.

Everyone else, what the fuck. /prog/ is a such a shitstain.

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-28 1:15

Thanks for posting that, OP. I am a bit disappointed though: everything was already in SICP.

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-28 1:37

>>10
I agree. Teh Suss should have spent more time dealing with real-world issues, like how to better leverage one's core skill-set so as to produce more scalable enterprise solutions.

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-28 5:28

Systems built on the Propagator Model of computation can approach some of these goals.

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-28 14:48

>>19
Too ENTERPRISE for me. Take your middle manager speak and GET THE FUCK OUT.

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-28 18:50

I would like to dedicate these DUBZ to Gerald Jay Sussman, Knight of the Lambda Calculus.

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-28 19:12

I love how Sussman puts pretentious Haskell fags back onto their place, cuz human brain isn't always correct, but it fucking works and can correct it's mistakes dynamically.

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-28 19:39

>>10
If you have a barrel-load of picoprocessors inside your concrete, it is presumably not to distributedly compute [...] fibs
No.

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-28 19:52

Isnt his propagator idea is the same used to train neural nets? I mean it's a thing in itself, that is hard and inefficient to order to do exact stuff, like drawing a shaded pixel on screen.

Of course you can teach NN to shade pixels, but the question is do really want replacing a simple array of bytes with gigabytes of magical black-box neurons?

Don't change these.
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