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guidance for a disillusioned CS major

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 15:02

Hello, /prog/.  My university's CS curriculum, in terms of languages, consists of Java and C++.  I have a copy of SICP and I'm working my way through it.  Is there a market for anything other than curly-bracket languages these days, or will I never be able to (define myownpath) in anything other than writing Free Software in my spare time?

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 15:09

Don't worry, eventually you'll realize that writing anything in LISP is a pointless waste of time even for personal projects.
Why not try a real language with communities and libraries and shit on for size?

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 15:13

Got any recommendations other than Java/C++?  I've heard Python is cool.

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 15:13

>>2
Fuck you troll

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 15:15

>>1
Unlike what >>2 says, I've used Lisp for plenty of personal, small and mid-sized projects with plenty of success and it saved me a lot of time. As for libraries: I've yet to have trouble finding a single library that I wanted, all I had to do was google and I found what I needed. The only problems were that a few of these libraries could have used some slight maintenance, but this didn't take up more than a few hours total for everything, which is a lot less time than I have to spend dealing with the mess that C and SEPPLES libraries can sometimes lead to when you use a lot of them.

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 15:25

Avoid Perl.

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 15:27

>>1
Learn Lisp, Scheme in particular, in order to achieve Satori of programming. Then learn Python which is like Scheme only fagged up with statements and shitty syntax, but comes with a great object system that's actually useful and a huge, useful library, so you can get your shit done (algorithms, abstract bullshite, tools to sort out your porn collection, free software, etc.) with it. You can even get jobs with it. And it's the closest to Lisp you can use IRL, i.e. the best thing you can use IRL.

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 15:51

>>2
This man speaks truth.
>>7
Suck Guido's cock much?

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 16:25

>>7
Maybe they could just learn CL and get a great object system (better than Python's, for sure) right off the bat.

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 16:31

>>9
He can just learn both, after all, we all read our SICP (and R5RS, possibly LiSP and HtDp too) and some of us also read PCL, PAIP, ClTL2, PAIP and the AMOP. If you know CL, you can easily know Scheme, and if you know Scheme, learning CL is easier (although, one needs to mind the differences).

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 17:15

OP here.  One final question: is GNU Guile a SICP-compatible implementation, or should I compile MIT Scheme from source?

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 17:19

ITT: Smug (but thoroughly unemployable) university Lisp wienies presume to tell another student what skills he actually needs to learn to get a job programming.

>>1 Stick to your Java and Sepples.

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 17:21

>>12
I know Java and C++ are hugely popular programming languages.  I was asking if there was anything -else- out there that's on the same level for Enterprise Programming(tm).

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 17:33

>>13
ENTERPRISE PROGRAMMING™

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 17:49

>>12
A language should be judged on its own merit, not on how popular is with managers, BBAs and whatnot. The programmer's own mind is enough to judge a language on its usefulness.
>>13
CL can be used for it, and there are a known cases in the industry where it is indeed used for it. It's good for dealing with large projects, however I'd imagine if you wanted to work in a larger team, you might want to limit yourself to some conventions/specific features, just like some C++ shops usually limit themselves to some feature subset (however, unlike C++, most CL features are fine to use, however it's easy to go overboard, and in the case you're working with other people, you might want to document more extreme things like your own DSLs among other things).

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 18:20

>>12
Heh, it's funny, because most universities teach Java.

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 18:43

There are only two kinds of programming languages: those people always bitch about and those nobody uses.

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 20:28

>>17
Note how there isn't necessarily a correlation between those categories and the awesomeness of a given language.

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 20:32

>>13
Big in enterprise programming: Java, C++, Visual Basic .NET, COBOL, C#. These are all shitty for different reasons.

Acceptable to find jobs, less shitty: Python, PHP (usually shitty though, due to shitty programmers and other things), Ruby.

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 20:36

>>19
COBOL
PHP (usually shitty though, due to shitty programmers and other things)
You repeated two very stupid myths in your post. This does your credibility no favors.

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 20:49

>>20
There's plenty of work for COBOL, unfortunately (at least where I live), and PHP is full of shitty programmers, extensions and libraries or frameworks, but in the right hands it can be a passable language - for a mid tier, of course.

Here are some examples:

God tier: Lisp, Clojure, Haskell, Prolog, Erlang
High tier: Python, Ruby, Scala
Mid tier: Perl, PHP, Tcl
Low tier: Objective-C, C#, VB.NET
Shit tier: Java, C, C++, COBOL, Pascal, BASIC

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 20:58

>>21
Does anybody actually use Objective-C on a non-Apple platform?

Name: sage 2010-10-29 21:28

Mid tier: PHP
Low tier: C#
Shit tier: Java, C, C++
IHBT.

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 23:42

i dont get why people say c++ is shit tier

could anyone please explain?

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 23:44

>>22
I'm quite partial to GNUStep and I use Objective-C with GNUStep for my projects.

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 23:48

>>24
Because they hate freedom and need Gweedo to tell them how to code. C++ is too unrestricted for them, and they think that because it's possible to write bad C++ code, C++ is a bad language.

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-29 23:53

>>26
0/10

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-30 0:10

>>26
google "c++ frequently questioned answers"

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-30 0:11

>>25
What distro are you using?  I'm on Debian Squeeze, and GNUStep stuff keeps segfaulting if I change the encoding to UTF-8.

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-30 0:45

>>29
Gentoo 32bit. Also, I always input in ascii. Perhaps these may help.


http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org/msg789497.html

http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.gnustep/month=20100201

http://mail.opengroupware.org/pipermail/sogo/2007-November/000309.html

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-30 7:01

>>30
I always input in ascii
American.

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-30 10:04

>>31
American Standard Code for Information Interchange
American.

Gee, you really think so!? Well done, Inspector Clouseau! Now find me something written in ADA that doesn't suck.

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-30 10:22

>>26
C++ ... unrestricted
What Ctards actually believe. Enjoy doing things you don't want to do and having everything you actually want to do be a massive pain in the ass.

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-30 10:23

>>33
U MENA SEPPLETARDS

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-30 12:53

C
a shit-tier
IHBT

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-30 16:47

>>30
I use irssi and there's a bunch of channels I frequent where the lack of FULL utf-8 support is a bad thing.

Name: Anonymous 2010-10-30 17:40

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Name: Anonymous 2010-10-30 23:19

>>37
Don't change these.
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