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Classes Suck. ROLES are the new best thing

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 15:09

quote:

Roles in Perl 6 take on the function of interfaces in Java, mixins in Ruby, and traits[26] in the Smalltalk variant Squeak. These are much like classes, but are entirely abstract. These are used to perform composition when used with classes rather than adding to their inheritance chain. Roles define nominal types; they provide semantic names for collections of behavior and state. The fundamental difference between a role and a class is that classes are instantiable; roles are not.[27]

Essentially, a role is a bundle of (possibly abstract) methods and attributes that can be added to a class without using inheritance. A role can even be added to an individual object; in this case, Perl 6 will create an anonymous subclass, add the role to the subclass, and change the object's class to the anonymous subclass.

For example, a Dog is a Mammal. Dogs inherit certain characteristics from Mammals, such as mammary glands and (through Mammal's parent, Vertebrate) a backbone. Dogs may have one of several distinct types of behavior; for example, a Dog may be a Pet, a Stray, or a Guide for the blind. However, these are simply sets of additional behaviors that can be added to a Dog; a Cat can equally be a Pet or Stray, for example. Hence, Dog and Mammal are classes, while Pet, Stray, and Guide are roles.
 class Mammal is Vertebrate {
     . . .
 }
 class Dog is Mammal {
     . . .
 }
 role Pet {
     . . .
 }
 role Stray {
     . . .
 }
 role Guide {
     . . .
 }

Roles are added to a class or object with the does keyword, as opposed to inheritance's is. The keywords reflect the differing meanings of the two features: role composition gives a class the behavior of the role, but doesn't indicate that it is truly the same thing as the role.
 class GuideDog is Dog does Guide {
     . . .
 }   # Subclass composes role
 
 my $dog = new Dog;
 $dog does Guide;                         # Individual object composes role

Although roles are distinct from classes, both are types, so a role can appear in a variable declaration where one would normally put a class. For example, a Blind role for a Human could include an attribute of type Guide; this attribute could contain a Guide Dog, a Guide Horse, a Guide Human, or even a Guide Machine.
 class Human {
     has Dog $dog;                        # Can contain any kind of Dog, whether it does the
     ...                                  # Guide role or not
 }
 role Blind {
     has Guide $guide;                    # Can contain any object that does the Guide role,
     ...                                  # whether it is a Dog or something else
 }

Name: HAXUS THE SUMMARY 2010-09-09 15:29

New Perl includes yet more features; surprises nobody.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 15:31

>>2
You are missing the point. Is not a post about perl or perl6. It is a post about ROLES.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 15:33


...
}
role Duck {
...
}
role Rick {
...

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 15:37

So it's an abstract class.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 15:44

>>5

Yes but you can add or remove roles at run time also. A silly example: in a game a wizard enchants a horse and become a pegasus. You just "add" the "CanFly" and "HasWings" roles to the now horse.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 15:52

monadic anus

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 16:06

>>4

No.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 16:12

>>6
Can you not add and remove classes at run time in Perl?

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 16:46

Let me fix this >>6

Yes but you can add or remove roles TO AN OBJECT at run time  also. A silly example: in a game a wizard enchants a "Horse" OBJECT and become a pegasus. You just "add" the "CanFly" and "HasWings" roles to the now horse.

Roles, then, are a collection of states and behavoirs, than can be attached or removed from objects in runtime.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 16:46

This is what got me interested in Perl 6.  I am still looking into Perl 6 for daily applications but Perl 5 is very much still out there.

Perhaps if Perl 6 hadn't been vaporware for so god damn long!!!

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 16:52

ITT some idiot just rediscovered interfaces.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 17:01

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 18:05

>>10
There's no reason you couldn't do the same with classes.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 18:08

So Perl ripped off Go? How quaint.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 19:29

>>15
Yes. Ten years in advance. Perl 6 has time travel. Go didn't invent dick-typinginterfaces.

Don't feel too bad, >>1 is an even bigger faggot.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 21:22

>>16
Learn to recognise sarcasm, imageboard person.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 21:26

he, thanks op. really, i was just looking for a way to model financial instruments in an elegant way... roles seems to be my solution. I think i'll go with ruby mixins though.. i can't wait two more years to have a production-ready perl6.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 21:36

Trying to get closer to multiple inheritance without quite fully providing it?

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 21:37

>>18
You shouldn't be programming at all.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 21:43

>>20
Do you have ANY idea of the huge ammounts of types of financial instruments that exists nowadays???. I don't think so .And financial instruments are not universal. For example, muslim banking has a totally different kind of "financial thinking" and their instruments reflects. Roles are clearly the best solution IMO since you can have a small hierarchy tree and a bag of behavoirs.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 21:45

>>21
>>20-san was right.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-09 22:09

>>19
If you want to talk about inheritance, perhaps you should look up Perl 6's inheritance model. Having a role just means you'll type-check. It's a work permit. It doesn't give you anything else you didn't already have, not the skills nor equipment to do the job you signed up for.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-10 0:38

>>23
This conversation is going around in circles.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-10 2:56

>>21
You are totally right. Inheritance does bring a lot of head aches in a financial point of view. I remember when uncle died there were a lot of questions of who'd get what. Luckily for me my father had the role of the only living sibling, and he got it all.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-10 5:18

Flying is a role seen in nature. Although it is often an inheritied trait from parents in birds etc..  It is also a role that has developed independantly in evolutionary branches that are only very distantly related - egs bird and bats.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-10 6:19

`Roles'? Why rename a concept that has existed since forever.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-10 9:32

>>27
Why use Perl?

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-10 10:35

>>27
And that concept is????

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-10 13:20

>>29
Inheritance, except their implementation is broken.

Name: HASKELUS THE TYPECLASSER 2010-09-10 13:27

Too slow!

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-10 13:32

>>30
perl
broken

Well I never!

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-10 14:08

OP here, to all 'roles' haterz..

http://www.slideshare.net/Ovid/inheritance-versus-roles-1799996

Very interesting discussion about roles over inheritance


--------

I have an ideological bias against organizing everything by Hierarchies. If anyone wonders why, take a look at this video. Not /prog/ related but you wont miss those 20 minutes of your life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O09FPHuCQQ (skip to 3:30)

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-10 14:33

>>26
Like that's got shit to do with inheritance in programs? You're supposed to model your problem, not some completely unrelated details of the real world.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-10 14:34

Why do people think roles have anything to do with inheritance? Even in >>33 there's a link to a comparison by someone who should know better. They've got nothing to do with one another and they don't even interact, making it painless for a language to provide both.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-10 15:08

>>33
[flash needed]
crap

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-10 16:03

>>35
Are roles not inherited? That sounds problematic.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-10 16:25

entity systems

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-10 16:50

For what i see, (1st link in >>33) roles are a way to "keeping clean" the classes. OP is an idiot for implying that classes are opposed to roles

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-10 18:09

>>37
Nothing about roles requires it. I don't remember whether Perl's do. Suppose they're not; how hard do you think it is to fix an instance of your derived class?

The question is meaningless to Go's interfaces. Anything that can qualify as an interface does--now that is cause for concern. It's only rarely going to be a problem, but if it ever comes up it's the worst kind of problem to have: complete and utter ambiguity.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-10 21:31

>>40
Let's fix it with syntax! Then, if it compiles, we'll know it's right!

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-10 23:20

>>41
Semantics. And in Go's case, if it compiles... well that don't mean a thing. This, in the face of the draconian emphasis on type safety. It's not that bad unless someone slips up pretty bad... but then that's just what type safety is supposed to prevent.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-10 23:47

>>42
Successful compilation has never meant a thing.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-11 0:02

>>43
With regards to type checking in a statically typed language it is supposed to mean a lot. Or do you disagree?

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-11 5:09

>>44
>>44:1: error: expected 'sense of humour' before posting
>>44:2: error: Aspie detected: I'm pretty sure that was a joke.
make: *** [>>44] Error 1

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-11 6:41

So has anyone provided an example where Perl roles aren't a functional subset of classes, or could be with trivial extensions to classes?

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-11 6:43

>>44
I do, C is my proof.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-11 8:31

Multiple inheritance, polymorphism, classes, and now roles, they're all just a bunch of enterprise-speak for keeping related blobs of data together and treating them as one entity with different possible operations.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-11 13:29

>>46
``Roles" are just interfaces, which are a trivial extension to classes.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-11 14:37

>>49
Your full of bullshit

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-11 15:11

>>45
Hardly. At least >>47 was funny.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-12 5:06

>>1
Admit your role!

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-12 8:57

>>50
What about my full of bullshit?

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-12 9:04

The term `role' suggests a method may have different behavior with respect to different roles it can fulfill. `Interface' is a better term for indicating a set of features and behaviors.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-12 9:10

Socialistic propaganda.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-12 21:33

>>54
typeclasses

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-12 22:37

>>1
That's how I... role!

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-13 5:05

>>57
This isn't reddit, we don't do pun threads

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-13 6:29

>>58
ROLE on floor laughing

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-13 8:14

>>59
ROLE on land enjoying

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-13 12:08

role Barrel {
...
}

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-13 16:23

ROLE for anal circumference.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-13 17:13

role PlayingGame {
        role (10) to continue;
}

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-17 1:33

Erika once told me that Xarn is a bad boyfriend

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-18 10:52

bampu pantsu

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-06 19:07

so that means that is easier to make a RPG in perl6?

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-06 20:06

class Haskell does Dog does Dead { ... }

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-06 20:07

>>68

[name='Haskell type='dog state='dead]

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-06 20:10


dog  ["Haskell"] = true;
dead ["Haskell"] = true;

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-06 20:12


connect haskell dog
connect necrosis haskell
synth necrosis

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-06 20:24

>>68
class Haskell is Dog but Dead.

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-06 20:26


synthCorrelation haskell dog dead

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-06 20:27


synthCorrelation [haskell=ye dog=ye dead=ye] -> So it goes.

Name: code less, hax my anus 2011-04-06 20:29

>>74
'(haskell (dog) (dead . #t))

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-06 20:30


synthCorrelation [hatedLanguage?=ye animal?=ye dead=ye] -> nice indeed.

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-06 20:32

synthCorrelation [perl=ye caml=ye dead=ye] -> nice indeed.

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-06 20:56

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to remove. -- Exupery

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-06 20:57

Perfection is achieved when there is nothing left to remove. -- Exupery
just applied the principle to quotation.

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-06 21:19

Hey this is pretty cool

my $dog = new Dog;
 $dog does fuckyouintheass;                         # Individual object composes role

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-06 22:24

>>80
U MENA HASKAL

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-06 23:22

So Perl now has aliased mixins to ``roles'', just like Ruby aliased them to ``modules''.

[b][i][o]Fascinating.[/b][/i][/o]

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-06 23:29

>>82
Who needs mixins, if instead of `objects` we can use lists? This mathematical OOP bullshit is just plainly retarded. Fuckin jews and their Set Theory...

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-06 23:32


'(dog (roles mammal pet stray guide))

It's that simple.

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-06 23:39

Perl sucks.

Sincerely yours,
Anonymous

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-06 23:55

perl sucks. long live perl.

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-07 6:41

I thought, roles/interfaces were a fix for missing multiple inheritance.
If you have multiple inheritance as in perl 6, what exactly can you do with roles that you can't already do with classes?

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-07 10:46

Multiple inheritance is cool if you want to lose your temper and hair.

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-07 10:53

SPAM INHERT MULTIPLE CLASSES FOR THAT REFRESHING MADNESS

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-07 13:31

U MENA TYPECLASSES

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-07 13:50

>>88
Too close to home.

Name: Anonymous 2011-04-07 18:11

>>90
SPAM DERIVE TYPECLASSES FOR THAT REFRESHING MONADS

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-06 18:01

>>82
And Scala calls it "traits"

Name: HAXUS THE SAGE 2011-10-07 0:29

Not /prog/ related. GTFO!

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-07 1:44

YOU MENA HASH TABLE

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-07 1:53

>>10
so they're closures.

I thought Perl already had those.

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-07 2:04

I was excited for Perl6, but its never coming out.

PHP5.4 has traits.

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-07 2:15

>>96
wtf are you smoking?

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-07 2:25

>>96

back to /g/!

back to /b/!

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-07 3:12

>>98
>>99

Roles, then, are a collection of states and behavoirs, than can be attached or removed from objects in runtime.

closures in mutable hash tables. How are they different?

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-07 3:22

>>100
They have composition and dispatch for two. They apply to types (and instances) and also cause changes relevant to the type system. They're completely abstract.

Name: :D 2011-10-07 12:12

Mixin based programming in C++

http://www.cs.umass.edu/~yannis/practical-fmtd.pdf




Roles are here to stay.

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-07 13:14

>>101
you can't compose closures
wat

they have type dispatch
which is overrated.

they cause changes relevant to the type system
why do you need a type system?

closures aren't abstract
uh huh.

seriously don't see what about roles you can't do more simply and with fewer buzzwords with closures, hash tables, and Lua metatables.

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-07 13:46

>>103
Not a single accurate quote.

But since you're a retarded Lua person I'll just point out that prototype-OO (the kind Lua has) is a completely different bag of dicks.

why do you need a type system?
I don't need one any more than you need an object system. I sure love having one though.

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-08 1:35

hhere's my p6 thread

Name: Anonymous 2011-10-08 4:42

multiple inheritance.
/thread

Name: Anonymous 2012-01-12 17:28

>>106
multiple inheritance is a disease

roles are the cure

Name: Anonymous 2012-01-12 17:31

weeabo shit is the disease

penis is the cure

Name: Anonymous 2012-01-12 18:28

lithper anus is the disease

penis is the cure

Name: Anonymous 2012-01-12 18:59

who the fuck even uses perl anymore? it's for old men.

Name: Anonymous 2012-01-12 19:18

Treb role

Name: Anonymous 2012-02-16 8:24

>>1
PHP 6 will have this too.

Accept it... this shit is THE FUTURE

Name: Anonymous 2012-02-16 16:18

autism is the disease

jews are the cure

Name: Anonymous 2013-04-01 19:12

bump just because

Name: Anonymous 2013-04-01 19:32

Name: Anonymous 2013-04-01 19:47

bump my anus

Name: Anonymous 2013-04-01 23:23

jews are the disease
extermination is the cure

Name: Anonymous 2013-04-02 1:06

"roles"

do you mean methods and attributes, fuckface? what you're proposing is making my code harder to understand that this spaghetti deaghuujmj shit already is

Name: Anonymous 2013-04-02 19:54

extermination is the disease
im the cure

Name: Anonymous 2013-04-02 20:47

roles/traits are cool. i use them all the time.

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