Cogito Ergo Sum

Your AI will never grasp this notion.

Therefore Strong AI will never truly exist.

Descartes waz 'ere!

>>1
See, the problem with AI is that when people say "AI," they really refer to an Artificial Consciousness or an Artificial Waifu.

I'm almost positive that Common Lisp is sentient.

But an artificial waifu would not require the whole Descartes party trick in the first place.

If we were to discuss philosophy, reference materials + markov chains + grammatical analysis would provide a better conversation than most 3D women could ever hope to provide.

We need to make progress on more important matters, such as figuring out the right approach to achieve strong artificial tsuntsun, or do the speech synth & cogsci research necessary to maximize the range of emotional signifiers available in speech to make every utterance of "Onii-sama" a unique experience for the end-user.

>>4
I want to discuss anii with my artificial waifu.

>>4
reference materials + markov chains + grammatical analysis would provide a better conversation than most 3D women could ever hope to provide
I do need to research more of this topic myself. I would love to someday hear a "Nii-san no baka!" muttered by my very own artificial otouto.

>>6
By the time it happens you will be old, and possibly even non-virgin

>>5
discuss my anus

>>7
I'm not even 20, and if it'll happen in ~20 years I'll be able to play out the fantasy of a shotaｘoyaji romance.

>>7
By the time it happens you will be old, and possibly even non-virgin
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

i hope i dont break /prog/

No really, but I think that the world will pretty much end once we'll invent VR.

* begin

>>12
That's an interesting observation there, but I wonder what would happen to the "real" world if most of the intelligent young males would choose to live in a virtual world.

*end

Definatly end.

>>14
defiantly

>>15
sage a spelling mistake, add to the thread.

faggot

(Augmented reality + VR + external actuators) = (Minority Report * The Matrix)

>>16
actuators

>>15
He was just being rebellious.

>>1
A implies B does not necessary mean not A implies not B.

HIBT?

>>13
>but I wonder what would happen to the "real" world if most of the intelligent young males would choose to live in a virtual world

Making the following bold assumptions:
- That nerds would just be the early adopters, ready to drop serious money on 1st generation technology, democratizing access to the next generations.
- That the normals would eventually follow, leaving only the fringe behind.
- That VR would be a one-way trip - once you upgrade, you can't go back to the real world.
- That VR will happen before we are all 100% immortal transhumans


Then I think everyone who is not a complete loner would have to choose between two sets of people - real world bodies, and VR dwellers. Since the flow of people can only go in one direction, eventually, everyone would have to join VR.

Only a handful of principled technology-hating treehuggers would still live in the real world.
Thanks to their ``ethics'', those fools would be forced to protect our life-sustaining technology, because not doing so could leave our blood on their hands.
They would also want to protect our VR facilities to avoid losing their offspring to VR, meaning that eventually, real world bodies will stop joining VR.

Eventually, our real world bodies would die, but we wouldn't be bothered by that fact: those of us who were active on networked VR servers^[1] will have all their personae^[2] seamlessly replaced either by brain backups^[3] or by AIs trained on our past behavior. This way, death will not cause any pain to our loved ones. Once the last one of our bodies is dead, VR will only be a computer simulation facility protected by armed hippies, who will rebuild a shitty civilization based on reality and suffering.


Notes                                 
^{[1]: This assumes, of course, that we would prefer to live in private and shared fantasy environments, which from our perspective, sounds like the best way to live in VR. In reality, we might prefer to disable unnecessary cognitive functions to stimulate our pleasure centers 24/7, or some form of human instrumentality we can barely comprehend in our current forms.
[2]: In VR, nobody knows you're not a Touhou.
[3]: Should that happen, the question whether we would still be truly self-aware is left as an exercise to the reader.}

Bibliography                    
^{The Matrix. Dir. Andy Wachowski, Lana Wachowski. Perf. Keanu Reeves, Laurence Fishburne, and Carrie-Anne Moss. 1999. Film.
Serial Experiments Lain. Dir. Shigeru Ueda. Perf. Kaori Shimizu. 1998. Cartoon.}

>>20
- That VR would be a one-way trip - once you upgrade, you can't go back to the real world.
That's not the way I imagined it, I think that it would rather be like The Matrix, where you're just plugged into a system, which provides all the sensory information directly to your brain.
Your body would still host your consciousness, and would need to be sustained - but by whom? We'd either have to log off regularly to take care of our needs (though we could automate some processes, like we could connect our bodies to tubes with food), or we'd need someone to take care of them for us.
But having a VR would mean that no one would want to work anymore (since you don't need money to get stuff in the VR), unless the VR itself would be an elitist paid club.
Society as a whole would probably change in ways we can't imagine.

Also, now I think that immortality+infinite VRs(=transhumanism) is the end point of our civilization.

- That VR will happen before we are all 100% immortal transhumans
I'm not one to be an advocate of conspiracy theories, but since the inventions of VRs or immortality would change our entire civilization, I wonder whether such discoveries would be able to be publicly shared with the world. TPTB might not feel like letting all the people on the planet into their secret transhuman club. It's like those rumours about cold fusion being possible, but its inventors assassinated.

That's not the way I imagined it
Your version is more likely, but it lacks the pathos of my story!

>>22
OK, I can play along.
If VR was a one-way trip, we'd need to entrust our lives to some organization which would protect and take care of our bodies. Perhaps they would be entitled to our bodily fluids and various organs if they could be replaced by machinery? Or to our entire bodies, if they could just cut our heads off but keep our brains alive.
But surely, some hippies/religious fanatics would want to destroy the whole VR, which would mean that there would be armed attacks on the organization's facilities. So all of us would be stored in a bunker underground, kept safe by the organization's military. We could also expect wars to happen, and the Organization to become sort of a separate country-like authority.
Though if that were to happen, an important issue would be whether the VR-goers are really going to entrust their lives to an organization which degrades them to heads in jars.

>>23
What if this organisation just says there is a VR, kills you and keeps the money?

Imagine playing video games in VR.
It'd be like I'm really a little girl shooting bullets!

>>24
That's the risk you're taking!

>>25
I'd rather play an epic high-fantasy RPG where I save the world, ride on dragons, explore the complex world, find true love...
But then if we add immortality (or semi-immortality, in that we won't be limited by our bodies, but we'd still be able to die due to an Earth-wide cataclysm), there's an infinite number of VRs we could participate in, so I'm sure everyone would try being a slutty Touhou at least once.

Every other cute Touhou you'd meet would be the decaying acne-ridden severed head of a disgusting male loser.
VR is gay.
In the MM sense of the word.

>>28
MM sense
What does that even mean?
Also, I wouldn't mind, but I'd expect that at that time proper AI would be invented so you'd talk with artificial Touhoes.

>>28
I'd rather interact with an AI controlled NPC than real people.

i dont know why you fags would need this shit, if you would have enough cash for VR you would have more then enough for a small apartment, highend computer and some of the other junk you need and then just play UT3 or something like that all day and night long until you die.

>>31
But how can I have sex with my waifu in a small apartment with a highend computer and other junk?

>>32
Do her in public. She's a slut anyway.

>>33
But she doesn't even exist which is why I need VR.

>>34
Don't we all, Anon, don't we all...

>>35
Anon
inb4 back to * please

>>36
How the fuck should I have called you, then? Joe? Give me a break.

>>37
``Anon'' doesn't live here. You should have called him >>34-san, because that is his name.

>>38
The "Name:" field would disagree with you.

>>39
And that is why you should return to the imageboards.

>>40
And maybe you should stop being such a goddamn dickwad.

>>1
The problem with your argument is your one (and only) premise. There's no good reason to assume that a physical machine cannot understand "cogito ergo sum," since we know of one kind of physical machine that *can* understand it: Man.

>>21
Also, now I think that immortality+infinite VRs(=transhumanism) is the end point of our civilization.
I wouldn't say it's the end point. We'll probably still want to advance our science and eventually colonize space. This is because in a very long time, the sun will eventually die and it might be tricky to protect Earth itself. Earth also does not have infinite resources. However, achieving strong AI and some for of transhumanism is indeed one possible way to evolve our civilization, however I don't think it's the end. We'll keep evolving until we have nothing better to do, which is unlikely, or we'll be dead.

So OP, how will can you prove your statement? We ourselves can't describe consciousness properly. There is no reason to believe a machine different from humans can't achieve it.

Rene Descartes walks into a bar.

The bartender asks him if he would like a drink, to which Descartes replies, "I think not," and disappears.

ONE WORD 10 PRINT "I AM THINKING" THREAD OVER

>>46
HIBT?

>>44
My argument was pretty much just a loose philosophy version of John Searle's Chinese Room argument, that without symbol grounding a program is purely syntactical(is that even a word?) and is just following a set list of instructions.

Merely acting human, not thinking human.
Weak AI is weak.

>>47
How can you prove that you're the real deal either?

PROVE MY ANUS




...or is it PROBE MY ANUS?





Geez, now I'm confused.

My AI is sick and tired of being discriminated against merely because it doesn't have a pineal gland.

>>43
My bad, I shouldn't have said "civilization," I rather meant humanity. My point is that after we attain immortality, we'll be able to become "superhumans," and at that point the evolution of humans as a species will stop, and we'll be able to grow intellectually and spiritually by living through countless scenarios in VRs.
Though it's possible that even then there will be a lot of ways for our consciousnesses to develop, or it might be possible that our biological brains will impose a limit to how much we can become transhuman (I don't like this option :<). And things can get even more interesting if you subscribe to the 8-circuit model of consciousness.
And yeah, our civilization will still be able to advance, inventing superluminal travel or perhaps creating our own universe.

>>51 Obilgatory:

"I say your civilization, because as soon as we started thinking for you it really became our civilization, which is of course what this is all about. Evolution, Morpheus, evolution. Like the dinosaur. Look out that window. You had your time. The future is our world, Morpheus. The future is our time."

I, for one, welcome our new machine overlords.

>>52
That's こわい :<

>after we attain immortality

..annnnd i stopped reading.

>>54
True immortality may not be easy to achieve, and I don't think that's what >>51 meant, however I don't see why we wouldn't be able to eventually achieve pseudo-immortality with enough advances in our medicine and technology, it might be in our lifetimes or maybe not, but we're heading in that direction.

Snow Crash

>>55
It's always easy not to see why something shouldn't be possible when you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

>>57
Describe what would the impossible part be? Even though it would require a lot of scientific advances, and we might not be able to call ourselves "human" in the same sense of the word as today, what exactly makes you think pseudo-immortality is not achievable (in the sense that a person wouldn't have to worry about conventional health issues, maybe be able to make "backups" of themselves).