As the title says, I'm new to programming, I've only ever done basic and slightly advanced Windows DOS language, and I know that is pretty limited in what it can/can't do. I hear that CL/Scheme are the main languages on this board, but I've also heard that they're old and obsolete, someone even told me that Lisp can't call external programs, is that true?
A couple people told me Python was a good language to learn, and I know a lot of programs are written in C/C++, and I've heard of some olders ones like COBOL, FORTRAN, Haskell, and a few others.
I've heard of these dynamic and static typing things, and I believe strong and weak typing, can anyone explain the difference? I've been involved in computers for most of my life, and I think it's time to advance my computer skills, and I could think of no better place than 4chan's /prog/, namely because I don't know of any other places, so....
>>11 C++ is as fast or faster than C.
Yeah, I call bullshit on that. Can you give me an actual example of something that is faster in C++ than C?
Oh, and let me just pre-empt whatever tard is going to say std::sort() inlining: there are plenty of macro implementations of this which don't suffer from this problem. Example: http://www.corpit.ru/mjt/qsort/qsort.h .
>>41
The only time Sepples os faster than Cee is when you have computations that can be performed at compile time and the compiler can specialize on them with templates. (That includes stuff like vtable lookup or whatever.)
The major caveats to this mostly involve the braindead binary file structure that typical C++ compilers use. For example, you have to include all specializations on a template in the original file where the template was defined. This makes it useless for writing libraries, and can wreck the organization of a normal project.
>>44
I was typing up a rebuttal about how interprocedural analysis tools are much better at this, and how template substitution actually hampers them. Then the fire alarm in my building went off, and so I forgot about it and don't care to re-write it anymore.
Java is an excellent language to start off with: it's part of the popular C family (which will make future learning easier), is slightly clearer to code in than with C, and is heavily used in the industry.
Its main criticism is that it can sometimes be a little slow when put under heavy strain, but that's not a concern for what you'll be using it for.
C++ - templates and pointers and much more confusing shite that I'm sure makes it a wonderful language.
Ruby - the Pokemon of the programming world. Everyone loved it, no one uses it.
Python - beautiful language, the business world hates it.
I have tried
sepples(found it awful, but somehow useful)
x86 assembler(I would like to use it with C someday)
C (I fell in love with this one,every time i see some high level thing i wonder how would that be translated to C :P)
Python(Frustrating OO and stupid magic going on everywhere)
With C i felt really comfortable but C takes some hard time to do high level things, unless you use third party libs.
So im in search of some "light" scripting language to experiment, that isnt fucking built around turning everything into a fucking object(At least syntactically)
Tried perl, and i liked the optional use of classes (yay! functional) but it feels like ypthon in the magic side.
1.Define waht you want to do
2.Search CPAN for module
3.Use the module reducing your program to 5-10 lines
That magic makes me feel uncomfortable.
Also there is the syntax... i know its about choosing how to implelemtn things, but...
Is it really fucking necessary to mangle the language THAT MUCH?
ON the other hand.. its A LOT better then python whitespace nazi syntax
lua, scheme, and c are practical languages for fucking around. The end.
Name:
Anonymous2010-01-15 0:32
>>60 With C i felt really comfortable but C takes some hard time to do high level things, unless you use third party libs.
Yeah, I've been trying to get comfortable doing high-level things with C, like fairly complex inheritance trees with virtual functions and such. It's because I want to do real game development in C. I was a game developer in my day job for several years with sepples, and I've come to absolutely hate the sheer volume of 'gotchas' you have to deal with on a daily basis.
I've found the most important thing to make it all work in C is *consistency*. Consistency in naming conventions, function parameter ordering, vtable wrappers, etc etc etc. It all has to be consistent. If you can outline the rules for everything succinctly, then you can recognize the idioms when you see them and picture it all in your head.
>>64
Ada comes to mind. It's not the abomination it was in the '80s anymore, and it can fit into most of C++'s use cases quite nicely. Otherwise, it depends on what use of C++ - OCaml, CL, and C# are decent replacements on the ENTERPRISE level, though the embedded level really only admits Ada -- you could use FORTRAN or Lua, but I can't imagine why you'd *want* to.