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SICP?

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 6:17

Is SICP actually good or is this another one of your silly memes?

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 6:21

Its not relevant to the industry, its badly written, and its considered harmful and detrimental to developing the skills of new programmers.  It should only be recommended for its historical value, so pretty much only if you plan to have career in academia.  Instead please recommend a book such as 'The C programming language' to newbies or ex web-designers looking to get a good foundation on the fundamentals.

I don't want to see SICP mentioned around here anymore or you will be reprimanded, please follow the lead of computer science institutions around the world and don't teach SICP anymore.  Thanks, and welcome to 2009.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 6:24

Of course it's good. It's pretty much one of the required readings if you want solid programming/compsci foundations.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 6:25

>>1
both !

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 6:32

>>2
Its not relevant to the industry,
nobody gives a crap about your industry shit.
>>2
its badly written, and its considered harmful and detrimental to developing the skills of new programmers.
this is fucking retarded
>Instead please recommend a book such as 'The C programming language' to newbies or ex web-designers looking to get a good foundation on the fundamentals.
Hurr Durr lisp is bad C is good durr
if you are a good programer language does not matter anymore.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 6:32

it's great if you aspire to being an unemployable Lisper

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 6:59

>>5
I do think SICP is a very important introductory compsci book, but >>2 might be slightly right on the 'detrimental' parts, as I believe a programmer should first get used to the dirty parts: learn some digital logic, then assembler, then some C, and after that possibly learn some random popular high level OOP language, and after that he can finally read SICP, learn Scheme and then learn Lisp, and be enlightened and enjoy writing beautiful software. If a programmer is already shown what the peak of his experience may be, he may find it unbearable to work with lesser languages, and if his foundations aren't good enough, he might not understand certain concepts that SICP presents in the first try (he can read SICP again, or study something else and come back). Some people may also consider that some students may develop a habit of writing tail-recursive functions instead of loops for everything to be a bad habbit, when working in languages which actually have powerful looping constructs, but I believe that's just a matter of style and preference, and it's up to the programmer to pick which suits the problem best(the tail-recursive version should only be considered if the language he is coding in has TCO). In general, I believe SICP does a lot more good than whatever few bad habits one might pick from it.

Of course, just advocating that one reads 'The C programming language' and avoids SICP altogether is a bad idea, as it only teaches one way to program (in C), as it will make the programmer ignorant of some very interesting and usable ideas and tools that he can make use of.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 7:15

ITT we talk to copypasta.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 7:18

If a programmer is already shown what the peak of his experience may be, he may find it unbearable to work with lesser languages
IHBT. 10/10

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 7:20

>>7
Fuck assembler, teach them forth

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 7:21

SICP is completely useless in real life. You should read  ``Teach yourself J2EE in two weeks'' and ``Design Patterns'' instead.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 7:22

Functional programmers are the Apple inc. fanatics of the programming world.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 7:28

>>11
OP isn't asking about the industry, and you're confusing 'real life' with 'the industry'. People can write in what language they want for their own projects or at startups, which can brings them financial gain. While there's a few companies that actually do hire Lispers to write Lisp code, they're few, most companies like Java, SEPPLES, C#.

Learning Java/C# is simple, and learning workarounds to a broken single-dispatch OO system (some of which are named ``Design Patterns'') isn't hard either. Don't think this is some huge achievement, because it's nothing at all. Anyone can do it.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 7:30

and you're confusing 'real life' with 'the industry'

You're idea of real life is to live under a bridge with a netbook and a Scheme interpreter.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 7:31

>>12
Ahem.
Learning Lisp or Scheme is no more impressive than learning Java or C#.
You've got rocks in your head if you think they're any more difficult than other languages and that it's some kind of achievement to learn them.

Name: >>13 2009-11-27 7:47

>>14
I don't code much in Scheme, and I do know C# and Java, however there are jobs out there where you can write some Lisp or Scheme for profit, most of them are unique new projects with plenty of potential and they are mostly disconnected from the mainstream software industry/ENTERPRISE. The most down-to-earth Lisp jobs that I've seen were some cool web programming/design company which was using it due to the extremly fast development cycle (try one of those nice continuations-based web frameworks, development in them is quite a breeze).

Most of the code that I'm writing now is Lisp with a bit of C and assembler and is for a certain niche subdomain which is mostly without competition. Feels good man!

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 8:03

>>1
It's coloured purple. How could anything be better than that? Also, we don't have any meme here. We have catch phrases.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 8:04

Lets have a sober look:
1.It meant for college freshmen.
2.It teaches computer science. Not programming.
3.It is fairly old and fixates on functional paradigms of LISP.
4.It does not provide anything non-standard, unusual or "satori-like" about problem solving.
All the approaches listed have been used by academia for decades.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 8:06

>>18
this

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 8:06

>>12
Ruby on Rails ``programmers'' are the Apple inc. fanatics of the programming world.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 8:10

>>18
>It teaches computer science. Not programming.
Fine. Now please recommend me a book that teaches programming.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 8:11

does it work now?

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 8:14

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 8:16

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 8:24

EXPERT C PROGRAMMING

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 8:26

>>23-24
Thank you!

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 8:28

>>14
well this is how i live.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 9:02

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 9:08

>>28
The question is, why none of the books listed there is about LISP.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 9:17

>>28-29
SICP is thought using Scheme, but it's a general computer science and programming book, it's not a book about Scheme or Lisp, but about more general topics which apply to the entire field. It seems to be listed here at least: http://www.programmingbooks.org/Books_Every_Programmer_Should_Read

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 9:49

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 9:56

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 9:57

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 9:58

>>32
Matt Dickie???

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 10:17

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 10:17

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 10:18

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 10:18

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 10:19

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 10:19

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 10:19

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 10:20

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 10:20

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 10:20

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 10:21

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 10:21

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 10:25

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 10:43

Samefag, just relax, will ye!

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 11:58

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 12:21

>>49
Application error (Rails)

?

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 12:39

>>50
It means you have been irrevocably exposed to Ruby on Rails.
You are encouraged to claim you're official homosexual card within ten working days at the nearest young men's christian association to gain all the advantages afforded to catamites.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 13:10

>>14

I'm not sure why, but I lol'd at this.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 14:10

>>18

unusual or "satori-like"

what the hell does that mean?

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 14:42

>>49
Unsollicited

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 15:26

>>30
Head First Design Patterns
by Elisabeth Freeman, Eric Freeman, Bert Bates, Kathy Sierra

You know the books is gonna suck if half the authors are BITCHES AND WHORES.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 16:49

>>54
Turns out Firefox's spellchecker don't work in pretend URLs. http://that-kind-of-sukcs-doesnt-it.on.nimp.org/revolting-pictures-and-gay-porno.html

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 17:00

>56
>on.nimp

Welcome to 2008.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 17:41

>>55
I bet you're virgin.

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-27 17:42

>>58
What about my virgin?

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-28 11:18

>>59
He just bet you're virgin! Quick, fuck her.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-07 6:20

★☆★ VIP QUALITY THREAD ★☆★

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-07 6:47

>>61
For the love of christ don't bump it man, trolls will just fag it up.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-07 7:03

>>62
FORGOT YOUR BUMP

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-07 8:02

>>63
FORGOT YOUR ████████████

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-07 8:23

>>62
FAG MY ANUS

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-07 9:35

Test aa
Test m
Test o
Test s
Test u

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-07 9:36

████████████

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-07 9:38





















































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































Name: Anonymous 2009-12-07 10:48

>>1
It's an excellent introductory book. It's free. If you think, "Oh, it is an introductory book, I don't need that" then you almost certainly need to read it.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-07 11:04

>>69
INTRODUCE MY ANUS

Name: Haxus the Introducer 2009-12-07 11:09

Haxus the Introducer

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-07 11:13

>>69
Only people who think "Oh I guess it woulnd't hurt to take a look," don't need to read it.

If that's what you are thinking, DONT READ THE BOOK

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-07 11:39

>>72
Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll read SICP instead." Now they have no problems. Especially if they live in their parents' basement and so don't need to pay rent and buy food.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-07 15:04

>>73
implying GJS doesn't buy food

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-07 16:13

>>74
implying GJS subsists upon base matter

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-17 14:18

OP here I'm thinking of reading K&R instead.

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-17 14:43

>>76
In the time that passed since your first post and now, you could have read both SICP and K&R!

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-17 14:57

>>77
:(

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-18 3:38

why is programmingbooks.org down?

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-18 3:40

>>79
because you touch yourself at night.

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-18 3:59

How long should it take a complete beginner to finish SICP?

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-18 4:06

>>81
As long as it takes. It took me 6 months on the first run.

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-18 4:09

>>82
2 years

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-18 4:13

>>81
A week in an average pace (breaks not counting) if you're not a complete newbie, maybe faster if you're more experienced, and possibly much slower if you have no idea what the book is talking about.

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-18 6:43

I assume the pros and cons are just about the differences between imperative and functional programming. I don't know much about scheme (since im not studying at MIT), but i can't think that the basic concepts of it are much different from Erlang (this is great btw) or Haskel except for the syntax and some language specific features. Or am i totally wrong here?

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-18 6:50

>>85
Scheme, Erlang and Haskell are all fundamentally different. Some concepts are shared between most languages, but you can't really compare them. There are many differences between languages which are statically typed (with or without type inferrance) and those which are dynamically typed. In some ways one language is more powerful than another, and in some ways it may be more limited. Each of these languages have their own unique ideas that one must understand before discussing of them. When it comes to more powerful languages, it may be possible to implement various concepts found in foreign languages into your favorite powerful language, but how would you be able to implement these concepts without first knowing them?

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-18 7:34

>>85
Lisps != ML-likes.

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-18 11:21

(define-syntax λ
  (syntax-rules ()
    ((_ (x) exp ...) (lambda(x) exp ...))
    ((_ (x y ...) exp ...) (lambda(x) (λ (y ...) exp ...)))
    ((_ x exp ...) (lambda x exp ...))))

(define-syntax partial
  (syntax-rules ()
    ((_ proc arg) (proc arg))
    ((_ proc arg1 arg2 ...) (partial (proc arg1) arg2 ...))))

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-19 16:48

its got an islam on the cover

dont read it op

Don't change these.
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