Code == Data == Lisp fail

I've been following comp.lang.lisp for years now, and I can count on one finger the number of times I've seen anyone really wield the whole "code is data" bullshit, and the result was a hideous mess of obfuscation that no sane programmer would touch behind 7 proxies, not to mention it ran like sorghum in Greenland.

Clearly yet another major "advantage" of Lisp is proven to be worthless tripe from smug lisp weenies, wholly drunk to bursting on the koolaid.

behind 7 proxies
back to /b/ please

>>2
Dear sir, I do believe you forgot your sage. I won't mind spotting you this time, but please remember it next time.
Happy Posting!

>>3
Dear sir, I do believe you have saged too early, and not allowed this young thread to blossom into it's full glory. Are you a supported of abortion by any chance?

>>1 has never written any serious code in Lisp, thus his opinion is invalid.

In the same way that lurking /prog/ doesn't make your a programmer if you're not one already, lurking /jp/ does not make you japanese if you're not one already, lurking c.l.l does not make you a Lisper if you're not one already.

>>5 has never seriously considered the flaws of Lisp, thus his opinion is invalid.

In the same way that lurking c.l.l does not make you a Lisper if you're not one already, lurking /jp/ does not make you japanese if you're not one already, lurking /prog/ doesn't let you disregard facts no matter how inconvenient they are.

those damn niggers! i mean, uh, lispers

>>6
There are some tiny flaws here and there, but Lisp is flexible enough to let you adjust it to your own tastes.

The moment you take code and data equivalency, it no longer is Lisp, you can no longer write true macros and one of Lisp's major advantage goes away. Even without macros(the most practical usage of code==data), it allows for easily expressing EVAL(meta-circular interpreters are a piece of cake) and custom interpreters, as well as simplying the syntax to list, thus you no longer need to implement a lexer/parser yourself, and not only that, you can build code dynamically, even out of objects you could't write in normal source code(most common usage is a gensym, an uninterned symbol, but you could easily generate some structure which cannot be written in verbatim in code and embed instances of it in your code). Your code is the AST.

If you don't know how this makes Lisp amazingly useful, you just don't understand Lisp at all, and probably haven't written enough Lisp code to see their power, maybe you just pretend to know it so you can troll.

The fact that data is code makes for flexibility. That's why macros are incredibly powerful and creating DSLs is easy - the ease that comes with functional programming is mostly just it.

lisp weenies are even more loud and obnoxious than apple fanatics.

>>10
U MEANA HASKAL

>>10
Should they just sit idly when provoked by the likes of >>1?

>>12
they do every bit as much provoking.

>>12
Yes. It's called "not feeding the trolls". Mature, fully developed human beings should not have any problems with that because, you see, one of the most important effects of maturity is development of one's own judgments and opinions. Not borrowed from someone else, mind you, but truly owned by a person. With that comes not giving a fuck about someone being wrong on the internet, or trolling. To give a fuck about some idiot's opinion you should regard that opinion as more valuable than your own, obviously, so it's a task of utmost importance that should be pursued vigorously -- to make him believe the things you believe, otherwise these things are worthless, because you are worthless. It's not like you have reasons to considering yourself a measure of all things or something.

When such behaviour is perpetuated by fifteen year old boys like FV it's completely understandable: they are not wholly human yet, but a mere larvae. They really are completely dependent on their parents', teachers' etc opinions, how can they learn to treat everyone's opinion with indifferent contempt by default?


A physically grown-up man feeding trolls, on the other hand, is a disgusting cripple, an abomination.

>>14
>treat everyone's opinion with indifferent contempt
this is what FV actually does. You won't believe how enraging it is.

>>15
nah, he doesn't even bother listening to other people's opinions.

>>14
How do you know he's 15?

>>17
i'm not >>14, but i attest that he said so himself.

>>15
this is what FV actually does.

I mean, like, opinion as a place for opinions to be, not opinions themselves. Like, when someone expresses the opinion that infinite compression is impossible, certain individual might not think twice (or once, actually) about the expressed idea itself, but try hard to persuade that someone to change his opinion.

OP may be trolling, but there's nothing intrinsically wrong with bringing up the issue of "code as data", and we actually got a couple of decent replies...albeit without much concrete to back it up.

Why the fuck are you people talking about FV?  The fact that you can't stop talking about him is sad...apparently he's under your skin, and continues to troll you without having to lift a finger.

I was glad for about four seconds that there was a thread about programming.  Now you've shitted it up.

>>20
Oh, you drama queen, you.

>>1
Implying there's a reason people would post advanced Lisp code on c.l.l regularly.

>>22
Pointing out implications

>>23
Implying pointations

>>24
Quoting text

sage

The "7 proxies" meme carbon-dates you at 1.4 years old in 4chan years. Welcome to the site.

29 Name: Anonymous 2011-02-04 11:48

30 Name: Anonymous 2013-05-25 19:26

anus
anus
anus

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