Open source solutions

I have a couple questions that are vaguely related to programming. Lately I've been trying out open source software and really making an effort to appreciate the value that it brings to the table. The problem is this: It continues to fall short of my expectations one way or another.

And that's not like "durr hurr it shud b winders," this is simply basic things relating to a positive user experience. Something that is not difficult to do, but the programmer said, "Well, fuck the user."

My questions are the following:

1. Why is it so hard to put usability in mind? I really don't mind if OpenOffice doesn't have every single feature that MS Office does, for example, but it lacks ways to do what you want quickly when compared with the other product.

You could, perhaps, compile the source yourself with the accelerations you want, but that's a waste of time and extra maintenance costs, bottom line. Cheaper than playing Microsoft's game? Definitely. Does any user actually want to do this? None that are interested in getting things done.

I installed Fedora the other day, and the partition formatter actually gave me options that it refused to enact. If Linux is supposedly about power over your machine, it should either shut the fuck up and do it or not give you these options at all. I did not notice this on my first time through, however, because at that point, I only used the default options (which apparently caused my system to somehow fail to boot into a Windows setup CD, which is why I went spelunking into the options).

I found using it to be a crapshoot at best. Upon first boot into root, it kept flashing this annoying tool tip in the system tray once per second and prattled on about some segfault error that I couldn't have possibly caused because it was my first boot into root and I used pretty much default install settings.

I felt that I would be better served by booting into my user, so I tried that. It said that it found wireless connections and that I could connect if I clicked the tip. I thought, "Okay, let's try that and get on IRC." Turns out that it didn't connect at all. I had to manually set up a wireless connection, go figure. I thought that when it said it would connect, it would actually connect. Novel concept.

2. Am I just not using the right products (even though I feel that I'm testing fairly reputable open source solutions)? Is there some free grand directive that prevents open source solutions from being as useful and awesome as they could be?

The Linux kernel was initially launched in 1991, and here we are, 18 years later - with nothing to show for it? StarOffice was acquired by Sun in 1999. How does this happen? What am I missing? It's just small general stuff like that that is a total turnoff to using things like OpenOffice and Linux.

>>1
1) A minor point - generally, it doesn't matter what OS you use; compiling code on your machine will always run faster than a precompiled massively distributed binary. Most of the time.

Also, Linux is not Fedora. And Fedora is not Linux.

2) You could try Ubuntu, although most consider it pretty bloated. I, myself, have been using it since its inception and now even package for Ubuntu. So all that bloat? Yeah, it's a small price to pay when you have an extremely newbie friendly OS. And since you're a newbie, I would recommend it. After all, that bloat is for people like you.

Yes, and whats your point about the Linux kernel? There isn't another kernel on this planet that supports more hardware than the Linux one. 18 years later we've made a lot of progress. If you're looking to point fingers at someone, point it at the people who bring all of the essential things of a Linux distribution together, but don't blame the kernel itself.

>>1
Alot of fail in this post
Well, fuck the user.
When you are dealing with open source software. The only users are the people who write and maintain the codebase, expect nothing more than what they want and need. No, they don't take suggestions.

Why is it so hard to put usability in mind?
Coding usable programs and interfaces is not fun. If you are going to give up your time to work on an open source project you are damn well going to spend it doing something that is enjoyable, i.e.: high level algorithms, core codebase, spinning cubes etc..

Upon first boot into root
And you were booting into root why?

I had to manually set up a wireless connection
Unless your wireless connection is unencypted there is nothing new here. What, are they going to include aircrack aswell- so they can automatically enter your keys for you aswell?

Am I just not using the right products
In the open source world, the 'right products' are the ones that keep the bug database from overflowing its own container and at have the worst interfaces. Read: Open Office, GIMP, Inkscape, Ubuntu, Tux Racer... [insert open source application not backed by large corporate entity and IS a group project here]

>>1
>I really don't mind if OpenOffice doesn't have every single feature that MS Office does, for example, but it lacks ways to do what you want quickly when compared with the other product.

Exempli gratia?  A whole lot of baww and no actual examples of what in particular you seek to do in an office suite that you cannot accomplish in OpenOffice.org.

Also, I realize WHBT.

>>1
The trouble with most open source software is that the creators don't really give much a shit about it. They're not getting paid for it and they don't have pride in their work, so you end up with hacked-together buggy crap.

>>1
Now that's top quality fresh pasta. I will attempt to address your concerns anyway.

Try to think of the situation (in the open source community) as a big collection of independent communities all working on their pet projects and sometimes cooperating with other projects when the need arises.

One part of open source (OS) development is that the OS developers write software to solve their own problems first; that is, the developers write powerful software that truly Does The Job^(tm). One part of the problem is the valuable resource of time. Many developers must decide where to focus their development effort and time and many developers choose to focus their effort on powerful features and system design over some other important elements such as polishing the user experience.

Another issue is the lack of design work that will go into developing a whole cohesive system; many OS systems are actually just a whole collection of smaller independent systems that are just slapped together. This can result in a system that makes it possible for the user to get the job done, but would greatly benefit from the guidance of a high level architectural team.

Another issue is the issue of closed resources; proprietary software and undocumented hardware are massive barriers to open source development. By supporting open source development,  making your voice heard, and educating the public about the issues, maybe there would be a chance to get the closed vendors to help cooperate with the open source community  do their work.

>>1
You don't get something from nothing. If you want to use open source, expect to (be forced to) make it suit your needs and contribute back. TANSTAAFL.

Also, >>2,7 HBT, 9/10.

>>7
Freetards should stop selling their shit as the solution to all the world's problems then. A "desktop" OS that you have to rebuild from scratch to make functional isn't worth shit.

Personally I'm still waiting for a distro that doesn't piss all over itself within five minutes of installation.

>>8
If you don't like it, then either pay for your software or STFU.

>>9
...And that is why it will never be the year of Linux on the desktop.

Also a protip: Purchased Linux sucks just as much balls.

>>10
Who in all honesty gives a shit if it will be the year of Linux on the Desktop?

>>11
The freetards who are trying to sell their shit as the solution to all the world's problems.

>>12
Didn't your mother ever tell you that shouldn't give time of day to any kind of zealot. ``freetards" would be no exception to this. If your listening to zealots and responding to them then you are just as retarded as they are.

>>12
Who in all honesty gives a shit about freetards?  I don't want any new users in my secret area of high-quality software.

>>2
I wrote the post while quite tired, I recognize that the kernel has nothing to do with usability, what I'm going for with this is that the kernel has been around for 18 years and all the ways to interact with this glorious kernel still fall short.

I also recognize that Fedora is simply one subset of Linux. It "sells" itself by being a Linux distribution. I wouldn't have bothered with Fedora at all if it was simply Fedora, some crackerfuck operating system. But it's Fedora Linux. I might try Ubanto. Thanks for the tip.



>>3
And you were booting into root why?
Because I didn't want to be hindered by lacking permissions to dick around with the operating system. As I understand it, root has capabilities that no other user does.

Unless your wireless connection is unencypted there is nothing new here.
It was.

>>4
For example, superscript/subscript has no keyboard shortcut. When doing numerous chemical formulae, for example, this is very irritating. You must stop your chemical formula every chemical symbol and move the mouse to the superscript/subscript buttons.

The only thing that it has going for it is that it goes back to the document automatically when you press the buttons so you don't have to move the mouse back to it. This is good. Now if they added a keyboard shortcut for it, it would be perfect.

It's the little stuff that counts.

>>5-14
I hadn't considered some of those factors. I'm satisfied with the aggregate ideas put forth in these posts.

>>4,7
Perhaps metatrolled, but not trolled in a normal way.

>>15
EXPERT IMBECILE

This thread gives me a headache. >>16-kun could have expanded his reference to >>1-15.

>>9
That is actually precisely why I pay for my software.

>>16-17
Not particularly well-thought out insults. Perhaps you should consider aspirin and attempt again, >>17.

>>18
Yes. It is so.

>>1
Define "turnoff". It might be a turnoff for you to mess with command line and actually work to have a quick, efficient system, but that's not how it is for everyone. Vim can feel far more "usuable" then VB.NET - you just have to put some work in to learn it. The more you put in, the more you get out - you can choose to do it with time, or money. Just don't come to linux expecting a windows experience, because then you might as well just have windows.
And frankly, who the fuck wants that?

>>20
Vim
Usable
Cringed.
IHBT

>>18
I pay for open source software. I pay very big money for good results.

>>21
Vim is quite nice.

>>20
The problem with Vi inspired editors is the high learning curve. Sure it's powerful, but many people are too lazy/busy to bother. Just like Linux and open source and command line/script/program hacking - yes it's powerful and one can get the job done well, but too many people are too lazy/busy to bother learning what it takes.

Its not merely lazy/busy, more like joining a cult.

Imagine that you're successful car owner and a band of weirdos on unicycles come up to you and proclaim how its much better than your car and ask you if you want to change.

Unicycles are better:
1.They don't pollute.
2.They cost much less.
3.They have more degrees of freedoms.
4.No fuel required.
5.You can repair one easily. And spare parts are cheap.
6.You have more flexibility for path you take. Cars have only roads.
7.There is no insurance, no speed tickets, no garages.
8.You can bring the unicycle home and store it safely anywhere.

>>23
Vim is quite gay.

Imagine that you're successful cdr owner and a band of weirdos on unicycles come up to you and proclaim how its much better than your cdr and ask you if you want to change.

>>29
What about my cd drive?

I see lack of belief.

>>8

Gentoo works fine for me. Then again, I use the heat off my servers to keep my pipes from freezing in the winter, thanks to a bash script I whipped up to do an "emerge --sync && emerge --update --deep --newuse world" across multiple, simultaneous ssh sessions. (Woo coprocesses)

Yes, IHBT.

>>32
VR^OOM VR_OOM!

>>32
Did you mean emerge -e1 world?

>>34

-l is short for --changelog. So, no.

Plus, I like to use the longer options, makes the scripts more readable and thus easier to modify if need be.