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Abstraction considered harmful

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-27 19:31

From SICP:

We control complexity by building abstractions that hide details when appropriate

Which means that with abstraction the whole system will grow and bloat without the programmer noticing it.

Discuss

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-28 19:42

Stratification in THE ALGORITHMIC LANGUAGE LISP by the Sussman

http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/1721.1/6064/2/AIM-986.pdf

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-28 20:55

What if when the Sussman dies, we find in his office that he plagiarized all of his books and papers from someone from China?

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-28 21:50

The title should be Excessive Abstraction Considered Harmful.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-28 23:22

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-28 23:43

>>42
The chinese sure can conjure the spirits of their ancestors with their spells, but they don't know shit about computers.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-29 2:13

Abstraction is never harmful.  Prove me wrong.

Even if shit is behind the abstractions, the very fact that it is abstracted means you can replace it.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-29 2:27

>>46

It can prolong the development process.  Abstraction should be used intelligently.  If you want something simple that does exactly one thing.  You could abstract this out to a more general case.  In the event this general case will never be needed you are adding unneeded layers of abstraction. 

A good example I got is certain types of creatures are immune to lava.  You could abstract this out to a heat resistance property, and a function that gets the temperature around the creature.  Then you could have say warm water that some creatures don't like and others like.  Or even cold water that those fire immune creatures will react differently to.  Abstracting out temperature effects on creatures can create a more involved system.  Unfortunately what if the only wierd temperature environment you have is lava.  It would be much simpler just to check for that simple case and react than to build layers of abstraction.

While the layers of abstraction are good from many perspectives with a time deadline and practical restriction on features sometimes it is better to just go the simpler and direct way.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-29 6:27

>>47
Until you make a simple change, e.g. you split lava into hot lava and really hot lava. Then you have to rewrite everything, unless you properly abstracted it.

``In order to make a system that's robust, it has to be insensitve to small changes. That is, a small change in the problem should lead to only a small change in the solution.'' --Sussman, at the start of SICP lecture 3b

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-29 6:46

>>48

nar u just set a temperature threshold for each creature in the lava lol

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-29 7:09

>>48
I cannot understand why anyone who's not a faggot would want "really hot lava" in addition to normal lava in his game.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-29 7:30

Why not just make all lava "really hot", it's fucking lava for chrissake.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-29 8:00

>>51 speaks the truth.
>>48 is just wrong

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-29 8:11

>>50-52
It's not about the fucking lava, idiots.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-29 8:45

>>50
Because the party of characters may be required to throw down two switches that will cause the mysterious guardian statues to cast a freezing spell over the lava, however, the first spell will not be enough to allow the heroes to walk over the lava safely, thereby justifying the necessity for a "hot lava" and "really hot lava" status.
Problem solved.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-29 9:00

really hot java

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-29 9:19

>>54
u raise a good point sir

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-29 11:13

>>56
Unless there is no mysterious guardian statues and lava is only needed in a simple way.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-29 18:26

>>57
That's now how PROFESSIONAL J-RPG are done. Once they realize that their game will only waste 50 hours of the player's life, they throw in guardian status and lava of variable temperature in the game to match the 80 hours announced on the cover.
That's the true meaning of SCALABLE SOLUTIONS.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-30 0:01

>>54
Or it can be special-cased, because duh.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-30 5:13

on this subject of this lava, i guess it depends just how much effort you want to put in and if it's worth it...
you could have a liquid object that has temperature, color, and whatever other properties u need that would cover the lava and really hot lava problem, but if u write a game that only needs one pool of lava, and the only time u see it is when chuck norris one-inch punches a man into it, whats the point?

the answer to all this abstraction nonsense is to write what is appropriate to meet the requirement in the specification you have been given.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-30 5:51

>>60
What, you mean my ObjectFactoryFactory class is useless?

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-30 6:02

>>61
perhaps, but UrMumIsFat class still applicable

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-30 8:14

>>60
Abstracting "you" considered harmful

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-30 12:22

>>61
Has anyone built LISP factories? Like a factory that spews out (((((, another that shits )))))), and a last one to spam LISP LISP LISP objects?

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-30 13:48

>>64
Those could all be abstracted from SpamFactory.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-30 22:27

>>64
This is posible in Croma Lisp ENTERPRISE edition

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-30 22:53

NO EXCEPTION

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-30 23:05

>>67
Every thread must end in a meme.

NO EXCEPTION

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-30 23:55

>>64
Your parens are unbalanced. Balance them.

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-01 0:24

>>69
It's too late, it has arrived: the final parenthesis.

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-01 0:29

Now to return to >>1

Look at the sentence quoated from sicp and notice

when appropriate

then be enlightened

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-01 1:53

At that moment, the novice was enlightened.

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-11 12:02

This thread needs more haxing of anuses.

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-11 12:09

im one of the sussmans graduate students, found this page searching google ...

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-11 12:14

>>74
And are you enlightened?

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-11 12:22

>>75
im like a child to the sussman

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-11 16:46

>>76
bro‽

Name: Anonymous 2008-05-11 19:52

>>74
i don't believe you ever went to college

back to /b/ please

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-06 12:16

it would be selling computers without using   some new alternative   could never keep   up with windows   underneath it does   make sense to   have reusable chunks   of logic you   can pass about   I know you   were an anonix.

Name: Sgt.Kabukiman㨎䧱 2012-05-23 0:18

weew

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