What has science done?

I originaly learned C++ to code user interface, but the only things I got so far to work is popup messages, and all the programs with interface are coded with microsoft visual basic, VB.net, other .net shit mixed with C++. The question is, can you code user interface with pure C++/C or you have to become a microsoft supporter? or I rather learn python and go yoonicks all the way? Discuss.

Yes.

I originaly learned Lisp to code useful programs, but the only things I got so far to work is toy features, and all the real programs are coded with Java, PHP, Python, other shit mixed with C. The question is, can you code useful programs with pure Lisp or you have to learn a real language? or I rather learn Haskell and go yoonicks all the way? Discuss.

>>1
C++ is mega-fail for programming user interfaces unless you want to waste hours of your time writing pointless glue code. The way you're doing it is the most sensible.

>>3
Lisp is mega-fail for programming real programmes unless you want to waste hours of your time writing pointless closing parens. The way you're doing it is the most sensible.

>>5
idiot learn to press the keys faster

>>5
Idiot learn to paredit.el.

>>6
trollee

bbcode is the most effective language at creating user interfaces


made you look

It's called Win32 programming, and it uses the existing features of the Windows window manager instead of wrapping them in a layer of bloated OO crap (and sometimes reinventing  controls that Windows already has).

Also, you can do pure C programming for X windows in *nix.

>>10
so if I don't like windows, I can learn python and go open source all the way, right?

>>11
You don't make any sense, just kill yourself.

>>11
I guess you could technically do that, but who wants to program in a forced indentation based language?

>>13
The only time that ever really becomes an issue is if you've got a crap IDE that hides hidden characters. (Yes, that sounds fucked.)

Why is it that 95% of the people who use identation as their major criticism have likely never actually coded Python?

>>14
facepalm.jpg

>>14
We can count opening and closing braces, but counting the amount of whitespace is more difficult (since it's white), especially if you're trying to read a printout of your code.

>>16
Fair enough. For most practical intents and purposes, Python is restricted to use as an interpreted scripting language, for relatively trivial tasks that are a little too complex for shell/sed/awk, but don't warrant anything overly complex.

Python fits into its place very well.

>>16
Except that absolutely everyone (you would want to work with) uses decent editors for editing code, and it never gets improperly indented in the first place.

>>18
This is another one of those hypothetical 'problems' coming from someone who has probably never touched Python beyond Dive Into Python.

Everybody uses a standard tabwidth within their code. Every project that uses Python (and, indeed, any language) will have a standard tabwidth. Everyone will set their IDE to this tabwidth.

>>17
For most practical intents and purposes, Python is restricted to use as an interpreted scripting language, for relatively trivial tasks that are a little too complex for shell/sed/awk, but don't warrant anything overly complex.
Expert troll or expertest troll?

>>18
Not true. I work with 6 others, and we use 5 different editors. vim, mcedit, pico, some mac editor, some windows editor.

It fucks up indenting, but that's not a problem at all. At most, it can be a bit annoying. Then again, we don't use Python.

Yes, I do want to work with them.

>>21
lol. if you used python, you would take some simple, easy measures about it. since you don't use python, obviously you fuck up the indentation. because it's not a problem. it's not a problem either if you use python, since you don't fuck up indentation. the indentation imho is only annoying when copypasting into the repl

>>20
lulz.
It's true enough. Most non-Python programmers will only ever come into contact with it in the form of random scripts.

Of course it has some brilliant pure-Python applications, but those would, of course, not encounter the problem of people who don't understand the practicalities of coding Python.

>>22
You're probably right about that.

>>21
See? You just proved the reason why THE FORCED INDENTATION OF CODE.

I once spent 20 minutes looking at the most horribly indented PHP code some ENTERPRISE faggot wrong only to say "fuck it" and reindent everything. If that was Python, the faggot would have to indent things right to begin with.

Basically, if you were using Python, everyone would have to take 5 extra minutes to set their editors right and no one would have to deal with shitty indentated code. It forces people to not be lazy, which benefits everyone in the long run.

s/OF CODE/OF CODE is a good thing/

Bah.

If you can use your editor right, there's no reason why the indentation would be screwed in the first place. Just use an editor that can replace tabs with spaces, and use 3-4 spaces for a tabwidth. As well, if you use a proper editor copypasted code should be automatically indented properly.

>>25
that's not a good argument, since in a non indentation dependent language you can often have an autoindentator in your code that can indent it properly, without any effort.

>>28
Yes, and then you save it and it will screw it up indentation for whoever saved that file originally. Repeat ad eternum.

It's much better if everyone sets their editors right to begin with.

Learn TCL/Tk, use Eclipse + Swing, anything non-C[++]/Win32/MFC/X11, and problem solved.  Only morans reinvent their own wheels.

>>25
No. I said indentation wasn't a problem.

Forced indentation of code does not protect you from shitty PHP coders. I'm sure that most of your frustration came not from the indenting, but rather from the EXPERT PHP programmer quality coding.

>>13
Anybody who's not a Perl"%/()#=%/$#fag.

>>16
White? Loser. Screens aren't meant to look like paper, because they're made from light, and are by default black. So it's blackspace for me. Go ahead and stare at a lightbulb with your white background if you want, that's the kind of thing Macfags, Adobefags and Windowsfags like.

You don't need to count the number of blackspace because you should be using multiples of 4, which are evident. Moreover, if you really need help, which you shouldn't, your editor should do something for you, like showing folding/block lines or spaces as dots.

>>17
Bullshit. Also, Python handles complexity better than most enterprise bullshit I've seen. Do you have any actual experience writing Python code? Oh, wait, IHBT.

>>21
Any editor can do spaces. Also, if you fuck up indentation, then I wouldn't want to code in your team. Only GWBASIC faggots don't indent their code strictly.

>>25
I once spent 20 minutes looking at the most horribly indented PHP code some ENTERPRISE faggot
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS, and this is why I'm glad Python has the forced indentation of code.

>>28
You still haven't realized indentation also serves to check that you haven't screwed up. If you autoindent it, not only you're getting used to writing code without caring for indentation, which is for GWBASIC faggots, but it may also be hiding something wrong. Also, auto-anything has a tendency to break everything.

>>31
Forced indentation of code does not protect you from shitty PHP coders.
But some Python features would. Think about the face a "web designer" (or an ENTERPRISE Java programmer) would make if he saw things such as UnboundLocalError, lambda or generators, let alone *any* of the barely interesting object features.

And I suggest adding some more ABSTRACT BULLSHITE to Python in order to keep these faggots away. *Thinks of continuations, macros, simplified AST manipulation...*

>>32
Screens aren't meant to look like paper, because they're made from light, and are by default black.
Only if you're still using a CRT. LCDs (when turned on) are by default white, and the liquid crystals are used to partially block the light.

>>33
Yes, I prefer CRTs. But with LCDs, you're still staring at a lightbulb.

>>34
I've just come to the conclusion that you are a moron.

>>35
Macfag

>>34
lol'd hard

>>1
look into wxwidgets

theres so many c++ based guis it just isn't funny. Gtk+, wxwidgets, Qt, MFC, etc etc

>>39
s/Gtk+/Gtkmm/

>>1
Get the source for eMule, that's all C++ GUI stuff. It really helps to understand the techniques.