For a while I've been looking to learn a programming (Even though Python is scripting.) language. I figured python was a good place to start. Problem is, OOP doesnt really make sense to me. Would anyone be able to explain or link a page that would make it 'click'?
>>4 If you would, though, please explain how it is not scripting?
Would you explain the difference between ``programming'' and ``scripting'' if Python is ``scripting'' rather than ``programming''?
OOP doesnt really make sense to me
OOP is a useful abstraction. It's not the panacea of programming though, enterprise fucktards who fap to OOP are stupid.
Python follows the good design principle that everything is an object, yet it doesn't shove them up your ass. You won't have a problem with it, and learn to appreciate this feature as it is — useful, not the bomb, but desirable if optional. Besides, Python's object model is a decent one; not the crap you could have heard of in Java.
And now that I think about it, if you think "Python is scripting", then the reasons you think OOP doesn't make sense are likely to be wrong as well. Just learn Python, accept objects, and realize they are no magic, just a useful language feature you use sometimes and ignore some other times, like any other.
>>4 If you would, though, please explain how it is not scripting?
If you would, though, please explain how it is scripting? And what's your definition of "scripting language"?
I take scripting as anything that is written and passed to an interpreter. I am aware that this is an interpreted language, and compiled at run into bytecode (Or something to that effect). I may not be technically inclined and call things by their correct names, but that doesnt make me incorrect. (See tomatoes.)
I do not "think" OOP lacks sense, rather, its a piece of a puzzle that doesnt belong in my box. I might be able to own the puzzle it belongs to later, but until I do it just doesnt work.
Also, if I may ask. Why, when asking for help, am I being bashed? The point of asking for help is to go from being ignorant of a subject, to gaining even the smallest amount of understanding of it. Sure I know its 4chan etc etc, but thats still no excuse to be outright dicks about it.
Also, if I may ask. Why, when asking for help, am I being bashed? The point of asking for help is to go from being ignorant of a subject, to gaining even the smallest amount of understanding of it. Sure I know its 4chan etc etc, but thats still no excuse to be outright dicks about it.
I am being an outright dick because you made the unfounded and culturally harmful statement that there's some meaningful difference between scripting and programming (where Python falls into the first category). If this was any other place, I would've simply thought ``what a fucking idiot, he doesn't deserve a response at all'' and kept silent, but here it is more customary to respond with a very blunt and unhelpful reply stating the obvious.
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Anonymous2007-09-01 7:53 ID:YyXwWwqd
>>7 I take scripting as anything that is written and passed to an interpreter.
And how is that different from C? Moreover, how's that bad?
I do not "think" OOP lacks sense, rather, its a piece of a puzzle that doesnt belong in my box. I might be able to own the puzzle it belongs to later, but until I do it just doesnt work.
I felt somewhat like that when the only OO models I knew were Java's and C++'s. Turns out these were the most fucked up and wrong OOP implementations one could think of.
Also, if I may ask. Why, when asking for help, am I being bashed?
Because this is world4ch. But don't take it as an offense, it's nothing personal. The fact that you started calling Python wrong misleading things that hurt it and many other languages doesn't help. But I am trying to help, am I not?
C is compiled into a final stage, where python is compiled into a middle stage to be passed and translated into a final stage. Now, please tell me where I said it was bad that this happened, or that python was wrong.
As another note, I want to make it clear that I do -not- know any programming or scripting languages. I made a stab at Python and C#, but I never clicked with OOP...which is why I believe I showed up here.
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Anonymous2007-09-01 8:54 ID:iEi5ZTI1
itt scripting toy language fanboys
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Anonymous2007-09-01 8:57 ID:YyXwWwqd
>>10 C is compiled into a final stage
Where it's passed to an interpreter. Only this interpreter is implemented in hardware oops, not really anymore.
Now, please tell me where I said it was bad that this happened, or that python was wrong.
You said: I've been looking to learn a programming (Even though Python is scripting.) language
Learn a programming language, even though Python is scripting. As if it weren't a programming langauge.
I don't want to kill you with fire for this, but I want to address this whole "scripting not programming / second class programming / poor man's programming / not powerful / slow / stupid / etc" issue. Especially because the best languages, and also the ones you should learn if you want to do anything serious, are often executed by a high-level interpreter, which is often the source of their power and correctness. C is OMG OPTIMIZED, but it's little more than portable assembly, and doesn't have many interesting features and abstractions. Higher-level language runtimes can be typically 20% to 200% slower, even 800% in the case of amusingly slow interpreters, but this performance difference is in 99% of cases meaningless (in the case of learning, in 100% of cases meaningless), and the source of your power.
>>1
So, by your definition, Java, C# and so on are all scripting and not programming?
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Anonymous2007-09-01 11:44 ID:ROrkwK/E
As a beginner, you do not need an OMG OTIMIZED language. Learn Python and STFU.
Or read SICP and learn Scheme or Haskell.
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Anonymous2007-09-01 12:39 ID:TL+8H8vK
It matters if you're programming applications you want other people to use. Demanding an interpreter that most users aren't likely to have installed is pretty bad. You either get "To use this program you have to download and install <obscure interpreter>", which is a big turn-off, or you include it and end up with a 10 mb bigger download, which is horrible for small programs.
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Anonymous2007-09-01 12:41 ID:YyXwWwqd
>>17
Any definition of "scripting" is bound to be stupid and shitty, because "scripting" vs. "non-scripting" is not a valid classification of languages. It's just wankery; some obscure, subjective idea of quality, like fashion brands.
>>19
This is a problem in exactly one case: the end user uses Windows and needs to run the program physically on his computer.
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Anonymous2007-09-01 14:00 ID:TL+8H8vK
>>21
A fairly common case, and it can be a problem in other OSes as well, if it's a obscure language, though Windows is in a class of its own in out-of-the-box uselessness.
Let's say I write some generic Linux configuration tool. Alternatives:
- I write it in C or Bash:
No problem. C compiles to native, and everyone has bash. Anyone can run it.
- I write it in D:
No problem. Compiles to native. Anyone can run the binary.
- I write it in Python:
Probably not a problem. Python is available on most machines, except for minimal installs.
Oh I didn't know there was a problem with that. I just figured it was scripting because of how it was used. I didn't mean to imply that it was better -or- worse.
They (I know C# does, but I know little to nothing about Java.) get compiled into JIT (Or something like that?) right? So, I would call that scripting. As to if that's "right" or "accepted" I don't really care. To me, calling something one or the other only implies how its used. I don't hold one any higher than the other, or think of one as more useful than another simply based on how its wrote, compiled, or ran.
I don't really care if the language is fast at what it does, I only care about learning and being able to make things in the end. If it would save me .5 seconds writing it in C as opposed to Python, I don't really care. I cant think of anything useful I could do in .5 seconds anyway.
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Anonymous2007-09-02 6:10 ID:jDXgMwud
>>25 They (I know C# does, but I know little to nothing about Java.) get compiled into JIT (Or something like that?) right? So, I would call that scripting.
1. Please avoid using the "scripting" word ever again, it hurts this business. It's not even a useful concept.
2. Java is usually compiled to Java bytecode. But then this bytecode is sometimes interpreted, others recompiled to machine language. And the GNU Java compiler can compile Java to machine language directly. As you can see, this "scripting" definition can't stand on its own.
I dont really mean anything harmful by it. I just use it as a personal reference to how its used. Its the same argument with the word "nigga". African Americans use it basically say hello to one another, while its still a racial term. I use scripting to tell me that the language is compiled into a gray area that is neither source nor machine. It in no way signifies if the language, compiler(s), or fan-base/user-base is bad or good.
Intellisense and popup lists of millions of useless certifications and courses built up around it Have you taken from me I was wondering how im meant to do fun projects in different ways did you think of the people who regularly post on 4chan and stroke.
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Anonymous2009-03-06 14:00
Interpreter LOCK literally ruins any of the crowd then to the understanding and Implementing Workflow and Business Process Management and everything s.
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Anonymous2009-07-21 2:59
>>9
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