Its that time again (suggest a language)

What's the best language for a complete beginner to pick up and learn?

I'm able to read through sources in various languages and understand whats happening on a fundamental level.

I want to learn a language over the next 3~5 months and i cant make any informed desicions on which.

Suggest the language best suited to an entry level programmer.

IN BEFORE SHITSTORM

>>40
Then you're a programmer that has a lot of options at his disposal.

#define NULL -1
// OHSHI-

cobol, you get to use cruze control

If you understand C++ inside and out, know how to PROPERLY use C++, and can beat C++ compilers at their own tricks, you are well on your way to proGODhood.

>>44
Truth but if you understand C inside and out, know how to PROPERLY use C, and can beat C compilers at their own tricks, you are well on your way to proMONSTERGODhood

Whatever these people say, do NOT begin with haskell. If you do, you will find that you're not an inch closer to learning real manly languages (everything except for haskell) than you were before. It's like a different world.

My suggestion: Start writing code in Python, or possibly even Ruby *shrug*. Then feel free to move to Java or C, since you should know some of the basics by then. Then move back to Python unless you are teh elite (which I am, sadly, not)

FREEBASIC OR GTFO

Basic doesn't count as a language. A five year old could master it; and when I was five, I did.

>>48
i wrote basic when i was five

>>30
I'm >>25 and not >>29, and your opinion is wrong. There are no reasons for new programmers to want to write free-form code. Force them to use good style when they're new, and they'll use it forever. This is why university-level programming courses will fail you for using things like bad variable/function naming styles. They need to hammer good styles into you to make you want to write maintainable code.

>>34
>Learn Scheme. It will make you a better programmer for the rest of your days. Honestly. Read this book: http://www.htdp.org/
No, don't learn Scheme, at least not yet. It's too difficult/frustrating for a new programmer, and you won't find it any fun because there just isn't as much online help for writing cool things with it; for example there are a billion tutorials on writing games in C++, and virtually none for Scheme. Python is easy enough that you'll be able to write fun and interactive programs.

Also, don't bother learning assembler. Read through a basic description of how it works (see what the opcodes look like, see a basic description of the internals of a processor, etc), and that's enough to give you an understanding of what a compiler breaks your code down to. You will never, *ever* use assembler, unless programming will be your career; it's only really useful if you're doing speed-critical applications (certain math functions in games, high-level math research/computation, etc).

>>37
Fortran is not surprising, because it's still widely used (in fact it's probably the most common language) in the pure sciences. I did my honours project in physics doing particle accelerator simulations using Fortran. There is *so much* mathematical/scientific legacy code in Fortran that it's just easier to use it instead of something newer, because half the work is already done for you.

As for Ada and COBOL, I don't know what to say. Haskell is just not catching on.

>>50

You have a valid point, there is not much material available that teaches how to do "cool" stuff with Scheme. However, somehow I got the feeling that (1) OP is serious about learning how to program and (2) has little prior exposure to languages. With combination of these two attributes, I really recommend learning Scheme right away.

When I was learning how to program, having the computer print anything at all was a blast. It's true that there are better facilities for writing games, namely Python and C++ (in that order for novices), but it's quite possible to have fun while writing Scheme. You also suggest that programs written in Scheme would not be interactive - not true.

If Scheme doesn't spark your interest, learning Ruby or Python straight away is a good alternative.

Also, I am aware of Fortran still being used widely in the pure sciences. I hope people would just move on.. Ada and COBOL are much more illustrative examples of languages that are way past their prime. Haskell has some very advanced stuff in it, which makes it worth your while if you have the motivation to learn and need such features.

>>1

What sort of stuff do you want to write?

>>40 Then, you might be an EXPERT PROGRAMMER.

>>53
Well I am not a "EXPERT PROGRAMMER." You have no right to call me that if I made mistakes.  This site should have some rules about harrassments, threats, and name calling.  I am still in the need of more help in that regards.

JScript .NET is much better than python. Prototype-based OO, class-based OO, lots of functional programming features, no retarded __pythonic__ gayness, no FORCED INDENTATION, support for both static typing and dynamic typing, C-like syntax...

OP here:

>>52
MMORPGS!!!!

LOL jk, ive got a couple of ideas for different little tools for my os.

Basicly i just want to make a couple of tools that will interface with various other parts of the operating systems. nothing seriously major at this point just toys and tools that will make things i do regularly (that seem awkward or convolouted) much more straight forward.

For instance ive got a daughter whos always downloading HUEG files, she has a torrent client, p2p probably limewire or ares or some shit, downloads running in msn and itunes running with always over 9000 files saturating my bandwidth.
When i need to free up some bandwidth i go through the process of going into
start... run... cmd... netsend [ipaddy] <msg>
I figure i could easily start out by coding a nice little gui wrapper that interfaces with netsend directly thusly saving myself like 2 minuites a week.
Something simple like a box that allows me to type message contents, and a pulldown server setup (like ventrillo)

Ive got ideas for hundreds of little pojects like this that although not major accomplishments, will save me a few seconds and more importantly give me the motivation to actualy get off my ass and learn to code.
Hence the reason ive never actualy googled around to see if any of them actualy already exist.

Besides im heading back to college and will be forced to write bus route programs and shit that will basicly use arrays, loops and conditional statements.

So for the tl;dr crowd, nothing major just some shitty little tools and very likely assignment work.

>>56
It's called traffic shaping, get/build a router. Smoothwall and IPCOP are your friends.

If you're interested in building desktop applications (as it seems you are) learn C++/QT. Or */QT, it doesn't really matter.

how would you compare sicp and htdp?

I wouldn't

>>57
QT is shitty.

>>58
They overlap only partly. HTDP concentrates largely on general program design. If you're only going to read one of them, it has to be definitely SICP.

Hey guys, let's use QT for a commercial application and pay $2500 per developer

LOL

>>62
Hey guys, let's use QT for a proprietary application and pay $2500 per developer

Fixed.

>>56
I figure i could easily start out by coding a nice little gui wrapper that interfaces with netsend directly thusly saving myself like 2 minuites a week.
Windows has this thing called mailslots you might be interested in for the network stuff.

I said, "I am an EXPERT PROGRAMMER."

She said, "Oh, I'm sorry!"

I responded, "You should be, it's no fun being one."

Ruby.
Seriously, this is by far the most beginner friendly language while at the same time being powerful. It's very straight forward. you won't have to spend time being sodomized by declaration and types, you just do whatever shit you want straight off and it works. And if you by any reason want to learn something else after that, ruby will have given you a solid stepping stone for that.

If ruby were a car you'd have 2 components, Steering wheel and throttle. Your speed would be perfectly bound to the throttle, take your foot off it and you instantly stop. Everything else would be perfectly handeled behind the scenes, it would feel like the road was your slave, no, the world would be your slave.  You'd just go out and laugh at all your neighbours scraping snow off their cars in -75°c. While your car would be snow free and shining with the light of the gods, just sit down in your comfortably warm car and the seat belt will fasten onto you, put your foot on the throttle(you wouldn't even need to turn the ignition key) and the car instantly starts to move without a sound. You still laugh as you leave the parking lot where your neigbours are still stuck with their primitive cars while your own cars caressing lips close around your cock and start to suck it while at the same time serving you breakfast.

While Ruby is indeed decent for beginners (having taught basics to a few people myself), I don't understand how people can say that

>>you won't have to spend time being sodomized by declaration and types

is good. Types are like free extra comments, a compile-time sanity check and a cure for many runtime problems. At least, if your type system is sane. i.e. Haskell :-)

>>67
I don't know of haskells type system and i'm not much of an EXPERT PROGRAMMER, but it seems to me that declarations and types limit how dynamic code you can generate. Granted, most software is rather specialized and as such may benefit from being rigid. But having it forced is rather fail and AIDS.

>>68
If you don't know Haskell's type system, don't comment on it. I used to be a dynamic typing fanboy before learning about Haskell. Nowadays, I consider dynamic typing a bug, not a feature.

>>69
Clearly, you're retarded. Types are of no use and should've been rendered obsolete before they were implemented into whatever manner of aids that were first to use them.

Visual Basic.

>>70

Logically, it makes sense to discern between different types. What should SIN('DESU') return, for example?

>>72

   SU             UD
 E    D         S    E
D      E       E      S
        S     D
           UD

>>73
win

>>72
Yes, but having to exclaim "I WILL HAS A SHUVEL!" before picking upp your bloody shovel is outright retarded. And screaming "OMG TYPE ERROR!" when your boss tries to give you a pickaxe instead of a shovel is not very clever either.

>>73

I lol'd so hard

>>72
>> Math.sin 'desu'
ArgumentError: invalid value for Float(): "desu"
        from (irb):6:in `sin'
        from (irb):6

>>73
well done

>>77
That's because you didn't extend 'sin' to accept strings.

>>66
If ruby were a car you'd have 2 components, Steering wheel and throttle. Your speed would be fixed to SLOW
Fixed

>>67
Data types are anal. QUACK QUACK. Can you "close" this "window"? Ok, then I don't fucking care if it's a window or it's my sister's vagina, I can call close. That's how things should be done. Also, variables shouldn't need type or declaration.

>>69
Types aren't a bug nor a feature; they are the lack of a feature.

>>72
"DESU" is a string, it can't be sinned, no quack possible, thus it raises an undefined property exception.

>>73
Wins thread. Threads can be won, so I call thread.win(73).