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why I like Pascal

Name: Anonymous 2007-01-25 0:59

Probably almost nobody here has first-hand experience with Pascal, unless they're Delphi coders. So I'll start with some history. Actually, more history than merits, because the history explains why the language is still worth a second look.

Pascal was made in 1970, and came into vogue at around the same time as C. It was invented by Niklaus Wirth, who had served on the ALGOL 68 committee and proposed then a language design, ALGOL W, that was simpler than the one ultimately standardized. ALGOL W's design developed a few years later into the original Pascal standard, which had a few compilers and intepreters in the 1970s.

By the early 1980s, Pascal had become reasonably well-known, but demands for new features led to a new version of the language, Object Pascal, which added, among other things, OOP support. However, this was an unofficial standard, and not as rigorously defined. The compiler standard that became most famous was Borland Turbo Pascal. It was very cheap for software at that time, $50. By the late 1980s, most individuals writing programs for the IBM PC(shareware and freeware developers, and small companies) used Turbo Pascal, because:

-It was cheap
-It was fast to compile(besides being a well-optimized implementation, Pascal code is easier to parse than C)
-It had good performance
-It wasn't as difficult as assembly, and it had libraries besides.

Schools had, by that time, long since popularized the idea of Pascal as a "learning language." Although Niklaus Wirth had not initially envisioned a learning language, but rather one that was easy to learn, one followed from the other.

So why did Pascal suddenly disappear in the 1990s, if it had so much going for it?

There are two answers. The first one is Unix. The second is Microsoft. Unix was built in tandem with C; C is therefore a very good language for the low-level systems work that Unix needed. Microsoft followed in this vein when they built Windows. As a result, libraries and APIs accumulated that were all built in C. Interoperability considerations made other languages less attractive.

C++ started to gain momentum in the 1990s, as well. Even though it's by most accounts an abomination unto mankind(with a 900+ page tome to define the language - not even the libraries), it maintained backwards compatability with C code. So C and C++ ended up taking over the language market by default with the support of two major operating systems. (Apple used Object Pascal for its systems in the 80s; then it switched to C++ in the 90s. Ever notice how unstable the later classic Macs were, compared with the old ones?)

Borland still makes Pascal products(their last big success being Delphi, which had both an IDE and a GUI designer), and several open-source compiler projects have come together, but as a whole the language recieves little attention beyond a few outdated jibes at deficiencies of its early incarnations. Few people know of or have investigated today's Pascals, even though prior history has shown strong preferences for the language in both academic and commercial situations.

So, having gotten that out of the way, I like Pascal because I find it easier than C, and certainly easier than C++. Easier to read and to debug; it doesn't rely as heavily on the usage of pointers, and the typing rules seem a little simpler to follow. It has a few "nifty benefits" like bounds-checked arrays, and the linking system doesn't use a seperate header file(you still have to, at a minimum, define prototypes for forward-referencing cases, but it's in the same file as the implementation).

In the "Programming Shootout" benchmark series, the Free Pascal compiler (short: FPC) scores near to C++, usually trading away higher speed for a lower memory consumption. FPC has a "smart linker" feature which optimizes binary size by stripping out any unused functions from eg. large libraries. These size-related features give FPC better startup times than anything else. C libraries are also usable with header wrapping, which an automated assistance tool, h2pas, exists for - sometimes it can even do a 100% correct job! (not to be expected, of course) And of course the compile times are still proportionately faster than those of C/C++ compilers.

Although I will admit that I wouldn't use Pascal in every situation(mainly because higher level = better in my book), I think it is one of the best options around for getting high performance and stability in a minimum of development time - which is what really matters.

Name: Anonymous 2007-01-25 3:54

I like pascal, especially as a learning language. Even more so when compared to the alternative of vb6. In high-school I spent time using pointers in turbo pascal while the rest of the class struggled with the same project in vb6.

Dumbasses

Name: Anonymous 2007-01-25 4:11

Pascal is good to learn, and in fact I'm using it to teach the basics of programming to a friend. That's because I need a language that doesn't get in the way with pointers, objects, too much abstraction, or too much syntactic madness. Pascal is good for that. I'm not teaching how to use Pascal to build anything real, just to make him get the concept and forge his brain to program before we move on to something real and complicate it with details.

However, as a language for real work, I don't find it as suited. It's static typed, doesn't support Unicode AFAIK, modules are not flexible enough, doesn't have native lists and dictionaries, doesn't support any advanced OO features AFAIK such as operator overloading, doesn't support any functional programming (no first-class functions, no closures AFAIK), doesn't have an extensive standard library for stuff, and I'm not sure about how would it do with a big application and real-world needs (not enterprisey, but real). For example, weren't strings limited to 255 bytes?

Name: Anonymous 2007-01-25 6:26

>>3

There are Pascal implementations out there that support Unicode.

Name: Anonymous 2007-01-25 6:42

bounds-checked arrays are yummy

Name: Anonymous 2007-01-25 11:51

>>3

FPC is expected to add generics at some point(no work done yet). Dynamic libraries are implemented in the next version. The Delphi libraries, which FPC mostly reproduces and aims to completely emulate, are actually pretty extensive, and they include classes with dict and list functionality. There are already dynamic(indefinite length) strings and Unicode.

Name: Anonymous 2007-01-25 12:58

Generics fail; if you want "generic programming" do it right: use a dynamic typed language.

Even if there are dict and list classes, it's like Java: without immediate syntax support, they're only half as useful.

Unicode in FPC? FPC strings are Unicode?

Name: Anonymous 2007-01-25 14:03

I used Borland's Pascal for a number of years until I realized that my code was becoming comprised more of ASM blocks than Pascal.

Great language until you needed to do something non-trivial.

Name: Anonymous 2007-01-25 17:00

Pascal != C++!!!

Name: Anonymous 2007-01-25 17:43

>>9
By God they tried with their OOP framkework stuff.
TurboVision, anyone? Ewww.

Name: Anonymous 2007-01-25 18:46

Free Pascal is a rather impressive compiler. The binaries are quite fast, and memory consumption is miniscule.

Name: Anonymous 2007-01-25 19:16

>>10

Borland "fixed" OOP on the second try in Delphi. But the old-style objects are still around for compatibility, and they're also a tiny bit faster.

Name: Anonymous 2007-01-26 17:54

>>12
I tried Delphi back when it was first released for Windows 3.11

Eventually wrote a program to custom gen Windows 95 install CDs for systems requiring oddball CDROM drivers and another to make those damned US Robotics WinModems do a ROM upgrade properly.

Never really did anything else with it.

Name: Anonymous 2007-01-26 18:51

>>1
>Ever notice how unstable the later classic Macs were, compared with the old ones?
I would argue that this has nothing to do with Pascal; the Mac OS was written exclusively in machine code up until System 7 was written in C, which was one of the more painful system upgrades in terms of performance. Then Mac OS 8 was completely bungled by the Copland mess, but 8.6 was actually pretty good.

Name: Anonymous 2009-01-14 14:40

YOU ARE NOW THINKING MANUALLY

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-06 5:31


Pascal while the rest   of the list   An example of   people pretending to   be girls on.

Name: ​​​​​​​​​​ 2010-09-10 2:07

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-23 23:34

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

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Name: Anonymous 2012-03-25 21:43

>>1
Fucking nice post! Badabababa I'm lovin' it!

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-26 0:25

>>1
If it ain't Lisp, it's crap.  Otherwise it's shit.

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-26 0:26

Czechum.

I'm playing the dubz drinking game btw.

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-26 3:32

>>22
nice dubs alcohol poisoning bro

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-26 4:07

Borland Pascal was awesomely ogranized, had a consistent standard lib, good documentation, and yellow letters on a blue background.

Pascal as language sucks for ``real projects'', but I kind of enjoyed writing in it again (and compiling it with freepascal) a few years ago.

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-26 4:26

A mediocre language with a fuckton of work put into it. Huh.

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-26 16:27

Pascal was nice...I wrote my first big projects on it, for Turbo Pascal, oh the memories

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-28 11:25

U MENA PASKAL?

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-28 11:32

>>27
I came here to say this :|

Name: not-so-old fart 2012-03-28 13:21

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-28 13:37

It's ugly as fuck. They still teach it in some intro courses and I had to take one of those.

Seriously, the syntax is beyond retardation.

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-28 14:19

Hispter as fuck.

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-28 14:45

Pascal is shit. Strings of different lengths are different types and there isn't even a standard way to read and write files.

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-28 16:24

>>32
Strings of different lengths are different types
no they aren't
isn't even a standard way to read and write files
your compiler will have a nice lib, stop complaining so much, the C standard lib is just as standard as you wish it to be

seriously there is so much wrong in Pascal, it didn't age well, but what you mentioned aren't main concerns

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-28 16:29

In a way it was my first language. Back in the days of runescape and the SCAR bot you would write scripts in pascal. That was my first dabble with programming. I really liked the syntax of it over nearly everything I've learnt since.

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-28 16:43

Is the inventor of Pascal, Niklaus Wirth, Jewish? His mother's surname is "Keller", which seems to be used by both goys and the Jews. So I'm unsure, should we promote Pascal and it's inventor, or press them out of history?

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-28 16:46

>>35
For example, the feminist Fox Keller (http://onthehuman.org/asc/2007/participants/portraits/fox_keller.jpg) is clearly ashkenazi Jewish, we need no DNA test to see that.

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-28 17:57

while pascal has come and gone prolog will never die

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-28 18:05

>>36
They are clearly the superior race http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence . Ashkenazi jew jimmy whales told me so.

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-28 18:12

I program Object Pascal whenever I can. It's simply so much better than anything else I work with. At work I use C#, C, and C++, and there's so much time wasted in debugging and coding, not programming.

Lazarus is perhaps the best, most deliciously designed IDE ever. Try it. Together with LCL it provides the best crossplatform widgetset based visual design environment ever. I haven't tried anything that comes close.

As an anecdote: I had to put a visual application together for an ARM-linux based platform. I put together a small application with Lazarus, compiled and deployed it from Windows in less than 3 hours. My coworkers jaws dropped, since I had only received the board that morning. The project had 2 months work scheduled for it.

>>35
He doesn't sound Jewish. I've read and watched all interview and papers he's written, and he doesn't have that Jew vibe.

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-28 18:13

>>38
Go - suck their dick, you mental midget.

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-28 18:24

>>38
"The Jews indulge in self-glorification, self-loving philosophy, asserting themselves as know-it-alls, knowing about everything without deep penetration into the very essence" -- Jacob Klatskin

Name: Anonymous 2012-03-28 22:48

>>41
That reminds me of you therefore you are a Jew.

Name: Sgt.Kabu렎kiman윝嵺 2012-05-28 21:59

Bringing /prog/ back to its people
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
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All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

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